errors in existing OOB's

[narwan]

Just wondering, is this the place to post comments on errors in the current OOB's of the game?

And yes, I have some.

Narwan

[Pyros]

Hi Narwan,

Yes this is the place.

There has been a lot of work/corrections with the OOBs, but I guess there is always a margin for corrections.

You are welcome to post your comments.

[narwan]

Hi Pyros,

I'm sure the greek OOB will be up to date with you involved!

Unfortunately the dutch OOB isn't, althought the problem does go back to earlier versions. Two huge oversights jump out immediatelly when going over the encyclopedia.
Leopard II's are only available from the 90's onward with the A4 version. The dutch however were the first country after Germany itself to receive the Leo II! The first production run (delivered in '78) went entirely to the germans but the second one (in '79?) went to both germany and the netherlands. Within a couple of years almost half the dutch tankfleet was Leo II's (up to about 500). The dutch should be fielding Leo II's from about 1980 onward and through just about all versions.

The second point is the F16's. According to the encyclopedia the dutch had F16A's. They didn't, they had B's and D's. That's a big difference since the A's are single seaters and the B's and D's are double seaters.
The job of the dutch airforce within NATO was groundattack and CAS. So the dutch decided they needed a two man fighter plane and bought the two seater variant.

Narwan

[Listy]

Errors in the UK OOB.

While It's intresting to note that we've been thinking the same on some ideas (Check out my UK OOB, done for DosMBT 3.01), There are some big errors in my oppion in the OOB.

The Bigest is the SA-80. Why's everyone in the OOB carrying the non-combat arms SA-80? The Sight makes it accurate out to 800ish meters.

Other stuff:
Sabre was withdrawn last year for being rubbish. Scimitar with TI is still in service.

The support sections wepaons are a tad wrong in my understanding. It looks like you've combined the Comand section and the support section in platoon into one unit. If so then there shouldn't be a third GPMG or a snipers rifle.

Scarab isn't used by the UK, its an export for Belgium.

RGGS? I'm guessing this is the Underslung Greande Launcher (UGL)?

BV202/206 has a bren AAMG, even in 2020! and the Viking wich is the current RM comando vehicle is a different beast to the BV 206.

Pioneer's, are you not getting confused with Royal enginers? Pioneer's are just muscle. used for all the dirty jobs, like digging graves and such.

There's other stuff, or so I belive (No FRES?, No Recce Aircraft? No Sheilder!! the one I particly proud of...). My old OOB is still kicking around on the Yahoo mailing list. I belive it's a better rendition, It also has dedicated Icons for most of the vehicles.

If you wan't more justifcation or disscussion, I'm happy to provide.

Sorry to take up so much space on a whine.

Note: The Icons I did for it, are currently being Re-done by PlasmaKrab.

[PlasmaKrab]

Listy said:
Errors in the UK OOB.

There's other stuff, or so I belive (No FRES?, No Recce Aircraft? No Sheilder!! the one I particly proud of...). My old OOB is still kicking around on the Yahoo mailing list. I belive it's a better rendition, It also has dedicated Icons for most of the vehicles.

Hey, L, stop complaining!

Dintcha think we should have a wee bit more of a discussion on this subject before stuffing on-map minespreaders every old where?
Your Shielder is a nasty devious pet, and there are scores of similar things to do, but it wasn't meant to be implemented in the first case!
Recce aircraft are good though, and I think I found some hanging around in original oobs. Probably some were just forgotten. That is patch purpose.

Oh, and you got ANYTHING saying the FRES will ever come into service? Not better check the TRACER for one thing?

I'm quoting the article you sent me about this one:

"Vickers believe it could prove a tremendous asset;"

Believe you me, when a firm says such things about a private venture project, it just means they have no client yet and are begging for a contract. Hence the advertising!

But I agree most of your work is of common interest.
I guess the Team were too busy these times to file through the SPMBT files archives...

Cheers,

Plasma

[Listy]

Yeah It's coming, TCH's Future Armed Services plan makes it inevitable (As well as butchering the UK armed forces at Mr Brown's Orders) that we'll get it.

If you look for the ACAVP, they've got the test bed up and running, QinetiQ Are saying it's going to happen as is the Company designing it, Atkins.

And based on what I've read it is possible. Using the ACAVP as a base, it meets the required specs, and that's with huge great big Fox turret slapped on top of it. The only part of it I'm not so sure about is the AT version with an ATG. The Recoil is just going to be to huge for the chassis and turret ring to take. You've expressed those doubts as well.

Sheilder dosen't do that much damage, it's just very, very annoying. Sort of like a huge spanner to be projected into the enemies battle palns.

[jvankessel]

@narwan

Agreed on the Dutch Leopard 2s. There are two other things that are bothering me at first glance:

- The Leopard 2A5 has an L55 gun, while in reality it still had the L44. The longer L55 was only implemented on the 2A6.
- The Dutch will buy F-35 JSF STOL fighters, so they should be in the Dutch obat after about 2014.

[cusbut]

Hi Listy,

Just wondering were you got your info on Sabre, to my knowledge Sabre was just a cheap way of issuing infantry units a recce vehicle like the armoured corps scimitar. It consisted of the old scorpion hulls fitted with fox turrets. There was no special upgrades for that vehicle. Both scimitar and sabre began an extended life program in the mid nineties which included chain gun, thermal image and new engines. However with all MOD projects not all the vehicles have recieved the TI upgrade due to budget restraints. Warrior infantry recce troops still use Sabre

regards cusbut

[Listy]

Easy, I Asked Serving Royal armoured corp personel.

The BGTI program (Battle group Thermail imaging) has fully upgraded all CVR(T)'s an Warriors now.

In my OOb, I had the Two scimitars overlap so that you canpick without without TI.
From what I've read CVR(T) is going to get replaced by Panther in the recce role. Under FAS We're going to get dropped down to three regiments of armour, each with two squadrons of CR2, and one with CVR(T)'s.

Also I knoticed in that UK OOB update that You've got CR2 With mine plows. That's as far as I can see wrong. The Trojan AVRE will be bale to do that role (That's also included under my OOB.) and a new Air portable AVRE called Terrier will bearriving in the future, this seesm to tie in with FRES to some degree.

A few other bits: The RAF have Recce Equiped Harriers and Tornado's.
Warrior, bassed on reports from the gulf Are Im Vunrable to RPG fire when hit on the chobham armour pannels on the hull front and sides (Hit anywhere eles and it would slice stright through though).

I spent Alot of time Searching and aquaireing the infomation, Talked to several soldiers, Serving and retired. To come up with my OOB.

[Mobhack]

Recce equipped aircraft are totally irrelevant to the SP series. Fixed wing air is attack air.

The spotter plane is there for slow prop-driven Austers early on, or UAV later on. Recce helos are normal light helos.

Early on, some OOB designers did go potty, and make "spotter planes" with helicopter icons, or even fixed wing jets. Those were removed from the offending OOBS since the spotter plane flies at prop speeds, makes a prop sound, and flies a tight circle no jet could manage . The helo versions were redundant as mentioned above - the light helicopter class already does this.

Fixed wing recce is irrelevant as any line scan recce pod data would need to be sent to an intelligence cell first, and interpreted before being sent on to high level HQ. So the data would not arrrive at the battalion level in any timely enough manner for a 1 hour or so game even if flown in turn 1.

Recce fixed wing planes might be valid items if this was an operational level game with batallion sized counters and half-hour turns modelling a day or 2's combat in a game, but not at this level.


Cheers
Andy