overrated ?

Arralen · #1 July 20th, 2005, 02:21 PM

PT-76
Various sources tell the PT-76 is not 12.7mm-proof at the flanks, yet it's rated "2", and therefore 12.7mm-proof, in the game.
"Hard facts" are hard to come by, but http://www.enemyforces.com/tanks/pt76.htm says "Frontal armor is inclined in 80.5 degrees. It's upper armor is 10 mm thin while the lower plate is 13 mm thin. Turret has a shape of truncated cone is welded from 10 - 20 mm armor steel.".
Judging from all those pics floating on the 'net, I would say this is correct - surely the armor is nowhere near 20mm, and it's pretty 'boxed', too.

PlasmaKrab · #2 July 20th, 2005, 02:55 PM

What for a figure do you exactly use for 12.7 penetration?
Is 20mm a conventional asserted value, and if so, for which ammo type?

Besides, front slope is 10mm @80.5�, which makes 60.59mm of virtual steel, plus the bouncing effect, looks fine.

Now as good as I can recall from the various sources about this thing (pics, models, 3D...), the other plates you mention are at least inclined by some 30�, which gives 19.5mm on the lower front hull and 30mm on front turret, assuming the max armor thickness is on the front.

Looks just right, doesn't it?

Additionally, if you take out 1 armor point you will end up with it being only 7.62mm AP proof, am I right? The game engine cannot afford being accurate enough to discriminate that much between thin armours.

Now from the figures you quoted, I find 2 of steel armor is fine, at least on the front part.

Arralen · #3 July 20th, 2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

PlasmaKrab said:
What for a figure do you exactly use for 12.7 penetration?
Is 20mm a conventional asserted value, and if so, for which ammo type?

12.7mm is rated with PenHE 1 generally in the game ...

Quote:

Besides, front slope is 10mm @80.5�, which makes 60.59mm of virtual steel, plus the bouncing effect, looks fine.

Front upper hull. Lower hull is about 30� ... .
According to eye witnessess, bouncing effects on front attacks must have been high.

Quote:

Now as good as I can recall from the various sources about this thing (pics, models, 3D...), the other plates you mention are at least inclined by some 45�, which gives 19.5mm on the lower front hull and 30mm on front turret, assuming the max armor thickness is on the front.

Inclined? The whole things is pretty much a big, paper-thin box, albeit slightly tapered!

Quote:

Additionally, if you take out 1 armor point you will end up with it being only 7.62mm AP proof, am I right?

And that's what I'm talking about - it is reported to have been penerated by 12.7mm from the side o.c..
So "1" at the side would be the right way to go, with 2-3 for the turret and front.

"Not surprisingly, the PT-76 is very lightly armoured, at no point exceeding 1/2in (14mm), and its side armour can be penetrated by shell fragments and even .50 calibre AP machine-gun rounds. PT-76s used in Vietnam were very vulnerable to air strikes." http://www.gruntonline.com/Order%20o...VN_armour6.htm

PlasmaKrab · #4 July 28th, 2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

So "1" at the side would be the right way to go, with 2-3 for the turret and front.

Fine by me, and quite close from the existing anyway!

Now how about the HEAT armour? If I have understood anything to the armour rules, HEAT armour is nought or equal to the steel rating, except for applique armor. And even the BMP-2 has no HEAT armor.

Maybe reduce survivability too? I have no report about special weaknesses on the PT-76 like on the BMPs and tanks (T-64 onwards). But 2 would be really low.

Alpha · #5 August 8th, 2005, 05:12 PM

US marine corps tanker told me that 12,7mm (M2HB) rips through BMP the iraqis had. i think these were BMP1 mainly...don�t know how the PT76 compares to BMP1 reg. armor.

kevineduguay1 · #6 August 28th, 2005, 03:10 AM

Alpha,

Was this the SLAP? Its the same 50cal gun with better AP ammo.

Shadowcougar · #7 August 28th, 2005, 07:38 PM

.50 cal SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrator)

PlasmaKrab · #8 August 29th, 2005, 11:22 AM

Were there already SLAP .50 rounds around in the Gulf War?

Anyway, Alpha, what do you consider as "ripping through"? At which distances and angles, on which parts... ?

AFAIK the Iraqis had mainly if not only BMP-1s, but the baselilne BMP-2 doesn't seem to be such an improvement in terms of steel armour.

And I don't see a way of comparing the PT-76 and BMP-1 in terms of design, since there are some 15 years between both; PT-76 is on the same basis as the BTR-50 though.