T'ien Ch'i, and how they rule!

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Raen:
In the Spring and Autumn theme, is there any point at all to building Horsemen, other than perhaps as patrol and/or raid units? They don't seem to work with my main armies.

Spring and Autumn has a dearth of good units, and that definitely includes the 20 gold horsemen, which aren't anywhere near as good as the 25 gold lancers available to Tien Chi.

Thier heavier infantry would be _ok_ if they were strategic move 2, but instead they're weakly equiped _and_ slow. Only their Composite archers look decent; Glaives are nice, but no where near as good as 2 handed swords.

Either you can make their summoned troops work for you, or IMHO abandon all hope.

[Saber Cherry]

It's true that Tien Chi infantry is weak, because of its weapons (no sword/shield units). In the default theme, the infantry with almost-decent protection (12) cost 13 gold. I prefer indy HI to Tien Chi HI =)

But as for archers - wow! Their composite archers are much better than Man archers, IMO. Why? Higher protection, at a lower cost. Man longbows are too expensive. Who would win with 1000 gold worth of composite archers against 1000 gold worth of longbows? I would say... certainly the composite archers, since I think they'd even win on a unit-for-unit basis. And with the "Fire Archers" order, that's important!

BTW. If you want to see a shocking difference in infantry quality, compare the Tien Chi (default) elite Glaive troops to Marginon Halberdiers or Greatswordsmen. Keep in mind the Tien Chi troops are 30% more expensive! A battle between the two sides, on equal cost basis, would not be pretty... but at least TC does get some 2 strat move infantry.

[ December 03, 2003, 04:58: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
It's true that Tien Chi infantry is weak, because of its weapons (no sword/shield units). In the default theme, the infantry with almost-decent protection (12) cost 13 gold. I prefer indy HI to Tien Chi HI =)

I generally use the 15prot HI with Tower shields and spear which are fine vs bow though otherwise a bit light. You can also get Imperial Guard in the main theme with Falchions as hard hitters though still only 15prot.

But as for archers - wow! Their composite archers are much better than Man archers, IMO. Why? Higher protection, at a lower cost. Man longbows are too expensive.

Man's longbow cost 12gps 6res vs 10gps 9res. this makes longbow signifcantly (50%) faster to build early in the game where resources are the barrrier and bow at their best. Longbowmen have 2 higher precision (this really matters), longer ranger and do 1 more damage.

Tien Ch'i bowmen are perhaps the most useable feature of the race and I suspect this is why they shine.

If you want to see a shocking difference in infantry quality, compare the Tien Chi (default) elite Glaive troops to Marginon Halberdiers or Greatswordsmen.

Marignon GS, on dom1, where one of the nastiest normal human HI cost for cost in a straight fight. The trade off is weak vs missiles while Tien Ch'i infantry with Tower shields are fairly decent in their role defending archers and attracting arrows. Barbarian Kingdom HI only cost 10gps but have lower morale - they are a very important part of making BK work in my latest test.

The Lancers should not be ignored as they can sit back on hold and attack and then charge down the badly shot up enemy or else line in in the battle line and shoot as they come in and then take to their lances. They add an extra arm to the army which is important. If they get to shoot while on hold and attack, or guard commander, they will be a very powerful unit IMO. It would also be nice if they could charge before being contacted when left with no orders.

Cheers

Keir

[Teraswaerto]

If one has luck scale +3, does the Fortune pretender boost luck even more, or is it wasted at that point?

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:


I have taken Fortune as my Pretender and she has done me proud. With random events rare (I know I should have made them commen) I'm getting a positive event every two turns + and no bad ones.
Keir

The Jade Emperor has his own little area of effect I think it outside of the Luck Scale, so it's twofold if you have Luck 3 and a Jade Emperor.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
If one has luck scale +3, does the Fortune pretender boost luck even more, or is it wasted at that point?

It seems unlikely it would be wasted as the description seems to say Fortune improves the chance of good events in the province she is in.

Cheers

Keir

[Kristoffer O]

Fortune ability gives the province a chance of an extra event that is automatically good. The chance might be linked to the luck scale (not sure though).

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Fortune ability gives the province a chance of an extra event that is automatically good. The chance might be linked to the luck scale (not sure though).

Thanks Kristoffer. I was just puzzelling away at the Jade Emperors desription as to me it seemed less clear than Fortunes' wether or not it worked well with a turmoil/luck race - the reason I choose Fortune over Emperor. From your response I'm assuming that both the Jade Emperor and the Lady of Fortune have the "fortune" special ability and that this is not affected by your turmoil scales.

Thanks again.

Keir

[Kristoffer O]

Lady has more luck than Emperor. 25 - 10 % IIRC.

Oh ... because he ... needs to be less attractive?

I wonder why that choice was made.