.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $8.00
winSPWW2- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old December 29th, 2016, 02:19 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,227
Thanks: 3,798
Thanked 5,390 Times in 2,687 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaS TrooP View Post
Will the list of "experience/morale to change" be published before the release to possibly discuss it?

Not a chance

I could hand that list to 100 people to adjust and get back 100 different lists and I have no time for endless debate...with the keyword being "endless" and the other being "no time" I'm already working every day just trying to get done the things I want to get done.

The game allows players to adjust either side to suit themselves we provide the "guidelines" for experience and morale from a variety of sources and ways which I can assure you no one will EVER get a consensus on. We knew that when we started and it's still true today
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #22  
Old December 29th, 2016, 03:18 PM
Aeraaa's Avatar

Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 592
Thanks: 161
Thanked 345 Times in 208 Posts
Aeraaa is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaS TrooP View Post
Will the list of "experience/morale to change" be published before the release to possibly discuss it?

Yes, I may have some question regarding some countries.

As of Turkish military power, we should probably ask Greeks and Armenian first who know and fear their possible power. Yet, I somehow believe that Turkish capacity is judged after their fine appearance in Cypriot War of 1974. But we must remember Cypriot military back then was not best either: old equipment, lack of funds to finance organization and training, not to mention internal terrorism problem etc.

Beating Cyprus quickly was not that hard really. Similar story with Iraq. As far as I heard from veterans, Iraqis were feared and treated at equal enemy in 1991. Their quick colapse was a shock for many.
I won't get into details about the military operations in Cyprus, but the whole situation during July-August 1974 was less of a fine demonstration by the Turks and more of a case of "the one who did the least mistakes won".

And there's no comparison with ODS. For one, the Cypriot National Guard did not fall that quickly, or in a bloodless matter.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old December 29th, 2016, 03:32 PM
SaS TrooP's Avatar

SaS TrooP SaS TrooP is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cracow, Poland
Posts: 415
Thanks: 24
Thanked 293 Times in 117 Posts
SaS TrooP is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

But they also made a number of errors, including failure in briging armour to contain the beachhead, inability to deploy artillery quick enough to contain the landing etc.

Needless to say opening moves of that war are on my scenario list, I will go as detailed as I can and you will see by yourself :P

And BTW, war is about making less mistakes rather than being strategic genius. Sun Tsu points it out all the time in his work and life teaches us that whoever disagrees with him... usually dies :P
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old December 29th, 2016, 03:34 PM
Wdll's Avatar

Wdll Wdll is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki->City Center->noisy neighbourhood
Posts: 1,359
Thanks: 307
Thanked 128 Times in 87 Posts
Wdll is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

What I find more interesting than the capabilities of the Turkish army (talking about the game only), is the relatively easy destruction/heavy damage on modern MBTs by a less than proper full conventional army.
What would the results be (in terms of tank losses) if they were fighting an organized (ie state) defenses? If MBTs are so easily destroyed on open ground by light forces, imagine if the opposing force had a regular army. Very interesting.
__________________
That's it, keep dancing on the minefield!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old December 29th, 2016, 04:40 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,227
Thanks: 3,798
Thanked 5,390 Times in 2,687 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

First off, the 2A4 is not really "modern" .......that tank was 5+ years old when SP2 was released 20 years ago

Two, they are fighting an enemy they cannot deal with in full on conventional warfare terms.... they cannot pacify the area with artillery first and it would appear they don't have enough infantry to keep them safe and it appears they underestimated ISIS ATGM capability.......and it's not a long stretch to see that there are propaganda points to be made when Russian ATGM take out what people are acting like are front line Western tanks...they aren't, they are over 1/4 century old. Nobody batted an eye when ISIS takes out a T-55 or T-72 with an ATGM ...Russian weapons on Russian equipment.... but are with a 25 year old Leo. That tank was designed to defend a 1980's style armoured assult..not wander around in the kind of battlefield in northern Syria and virtually everything is vulnerable to a side shot
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #26  
Old December 29th, 2016, 08:11 PM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,829
Thanks: 542
Thanked 792 Times in 600 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
I won't get into details about the military operations in Cyprus, but the whole situation during July-August 1974 was less of a fine demonstration by the Turks and more of a case of "the one who did the least mistakes won".
I seem to recall a famous quote to the effect of "making less mistakes then your enemy"

As to the Leo ... every time anything happens you always get someone claiming "The End is Near"! I seem to recall the USA totally gutting it's entire military except the newly independent Air Force because nuclear bombs made everything else obsolete. So excuse me if I have a private chuckle at the doomsayers.
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Suhiir For This Useful Post:
  #27  
Old December 29th, 2016, 10:27 PM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 3,308
Thanks: 98
Thanked 602 Times in 476 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Saudi Leclerc's don't seem to be fairing to badly, interestingly just tried having a quick look for them & the dessert warrior in the OOB & could not find, think I have default OOB.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old December 30th, 2016, 12:06 AM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,227
Thanks: 3,798
Thanked 5,390 Times in 2,687 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
Saudi Leclerc's don't seem to be fairing to badly, interestingly just tried having a quick look for them & the dessert warrior in the OOB & could not find, think I have default OOB.
Leclercs are in "Gulf states" along with the Warrior as UAE is part of the "Gulf States" OOB. There is talk the Saudis are interested but nothing to say they have any
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #29  
Old December 30th, 2016, 02:46 AM
RightDeve's Avatar

RightDeve RightDeve is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yogyakarta, Nusantara
Posts: 468
Thanks: 99
Thanked 104 Times in 65 Posts
RightDeve is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

It's been proven Leopard's greatest weakness is when facing hand combat

Source:

https://youtu.be/nPMi136tURg?t=21
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RightDeve For This Useful Post:
  #30  
Old December 30th, 2016, 03:05 AM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 2,677
Thanks: 702
Thanked 1,235 Times in 923 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

I don't think you'll have to worry about LeClerc's in Saudi Arabia our Senate just this past Aug/Sep approved a Saudi arms request for $1.15 Billion. This deal includes 150 M1A1/M1A2S (These are apparently on par with our M1A2 SEP V2.) ABRAMS to include an additional, I believe ~10-20 M88 Recovery tanks.
http://www.bahraindefence.com/indust...audi-tank-deal

These tanks probably will replace around the 20 M1A1 ABRAM's lost in combat in Yemen in the last 1.5 years. Also it is believed these tanks will start to replace the around 450+ M60A3 PATTON tanks.

And to stay on topic...
You might find the PROTECTION section of the next very useful.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; December 30th, 2016 at 03:21 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.