Conceptual Balance (Discussion)

[Zen]

Hello old and new friends alike!

I'm sure you were either fearing or wanting this to happen, but I am taking it once more upon myself to put together the Dominions 3 Conceptual Balance mod. I will be waiting until after the first patch to not only see the direction of balance that IW chooses, but to also see the full extent of the modding capabilities.

If you have gripes or concerns about the "Balance" of Dom3, this might be the best place to do so, not only so that good and valuable suggestions can be added to the groupthink of Conceptual Balance, but also to give a good indicator of all *real* issues.

Now remember, Balance is a question of a few things. My concept of balance is for everything to have some sort of use, however minor. And even if it alreay has a use, it fits in line with the cost/efficency that will allow you to use multiple strategies with each nation/era/pretender.

Further, you should know from the CB Mod in Dom2, there are unique balance problems to the Dominions universe and game. A number of these stem from the lategame so you may see some conceptual changes that will make Dom3 less likely as the game progresses to become the "same ol' endgame".

[Ironhawk]

Whoa, zen. Good to see you

[Potatoman]

*applause*

• I'd like to see air magic as a random possibility for EA Ry'leh Slave Mages or Mind Lords.
• I'd like to see the devastating effect of old age lessened. It feels like old commanders always die off 1-2 years after recruitment, regardless of their actual age. A 1001/1000 aged commander is just as likely to die as a 100/50 aged commander. Also, the whole "Fire magic reduces lifespan" mechanic, while thematically interesting, is too crippling to fire-heavy nations.

Just throwing some ideas on the table.

[Meglobob]

I would like to also request a toning down of old age. I dislike it alot, u spend a huge amount of gold on a powerful mage, only to watch the mage waste away...yea great fun...not.

[Zen]

Just throwing some ideas on the table.

This is the perfect way to go with ideas. I would ask everyone to be cordial, even if you disagree with a change or discussion. Obviously I would prefer that you also have a reason, just like the good Potatoman did, for your thoughts on change. Reasons like "This sucks" will probably be not given as much weight as something with a well thought out reasoning.

Also, please remember that balance will occur first in the things that affect all Ages/Games. This can greatly impact how each nation is played. Dominions 3 is so big that these Mod releases will be done as soon as possible with as much testing as possible to ensure quality.

[Nerfix]

Abysia suffers really excessively from old age.

Some of the not so good pretenders got actually nerfed out of all things. Namely Son of the Sun, both varieties as they lost their Awe, and they weren't that great before. Vampire Queen is useless now. No ethereality, no nothing, 175 point cost. Propably a lot of other things.

[NTJedi]

After several games here are the balance issues I noticed:

1) Eater of the Dead = The price of this creature has doubled(!50_gems!) yet it's effect and value have changed very little. Considering it's very difficult magic path of 4D and 4S, the 50 gem cost, conjuration_8 and the creature eventually turns independent... it needs an overhaul. Approach the change any way you wish, but it would be most interesting if the creature was improved to the point where players would consider the spell. Currently even for 8 astral I doubt anyone would summon the creature... so I say boost the value of the creature.


... at work so the rest will need to wait.

[FrankTrollman]

I have mixed feelings about your Dom2 balance mod. We feel the same about many units, and differ sharply on others. However I think this is a good discussion to have.

Upon entering the game one is presented with Gods. So let's talk about them first:

Drakaina She's a Titan, and she costs 75 with just 2 picks. That's pretty standard territory - but she only has a Dominion of 1. That seems like a bug, because other creatures in that tax bracket (Lord of Fertility, Earth Mother, Son of Niefel) have a Dominon of 2 or 3.

Lord of War Where to start? He's worse than a Cyclops in every meaningful way and the cost savings isn't even there with an Earth Magic of 6+. He isn't even available to positions that don't get a Cyclops. He's just a crap god. He should have a Dominion of 4 or more magic or anything to make him less of a loser.

Titan (Female) She' just not... good. She doesn't do anything and has less magic than a Lady of Fortune who does. You seem to be paying real magic for an Owl, and we know that aint right. She should get better magic in one path or take on a third path. Something. Anything.

And while we're on the subject of those 2 picks 75 cost titans, what is up with them anyway? The cost savings for having a high initial pick in something are really big. Buying a 9 in a path for a god with a 50 pathcost is discounted by 114 points by having a 1 in the path to start with, discounted by 178 for having a 2 to start, and discounted by 234 for starting with a 3.

What does that mean? It means that having a 1 in two paths actually saves you less points than having a 3 in one path if you intend to purchase both up to 9. Getting bonus protection and berserking is cheaper on a Cyclops than it is on an Earth Mother. That means that the characters with 3 in one path (Solar Disc, Cyclops, Prince of Death, Lord of the Sky, etc.) are much better than the guys with 2 picks in one path and one pick in another (Titan, Mother of Serpents, Daughter of the Dawn).

A better split for pretenders like that would be to give them 2 picks in two categories. They'd be meaningfully encouraged to focus on the two categories of magic that they come with. A 2 Nature/2 Death Mother of Serpents would be worth considering to a degree that she really isn't now.

-Frank

[dirtywick]

Hi Zen, we've never spoke so I thought I'd tell you that I liked the mod you made for Dom 2.

I think either Ubas or Bakemono Sorcerors should get at least a 10% chance for an Air pick so Shinuyama can make use of their sacreds a little more effectively. Or at least the little priest guys should get a 100% chance so you can actually find some air sites.

[Nerfix]

Lord of War is economic for Marverni IMO. But it isn't that great on stats, magic etc etc.

Also, one might consider to take a look into Risen Oracle's downright obscene HP.

Also, in EA Vanheim/Helheim are overpowered with their easy to acces to lots of different troops with Glamour.