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  #1  
Old December 28th, 2017, 05:12 PM

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Default 90mm Tank Guns

I would like to make some comments to the 90mm tank gun in the game.
Angola didn’t have any M10, M18 & M36 TD, its bad information
In Israel you call the F1 gun as CNI, it should be called F1 instead
In France F1 has 80 range? Instead it should be changed to other countries 35
South Africa GT2 (license build F1) with Sabot Ammo? It has not, it could only fire HEAT
Chad used many EE9 Cascavel M.II captured from Libya & AML90 Lynx
Brazil didn’t have EE9 Cascavel M.II
Brazil and the other countries don’t have any Uirapuru MGs, its FN-MAG 7,62mm
Brazil never fielded EE17 Sucuri or EE18 Sucuri II
Brazil never fielded any EE9 Jararaca
Brazil never fielded EE11 Urutu with 90mm guns
Brazil never had XA-185
Brazil never had Hawk SAM
Brazil never had Tamoio or Osorio Tanks
Yugoslavia / Serbia M36B1 arrived in 1953 and used until 2005
Yugoslavia / Serbia / Bosnia / Croatia had the M47 tank with the locally made M74 HEAT from 1974 (300mm penetration, not 190mm) so they should use M36-74
M36-85 of South Korea, Pakistan, Bosnia & Croatia w/K241 ammo should all have 300mm HEAT also ,M431 for South Korea & Pakistan, M74 for Bosnia & Croatia
M41-Be83 is with the Mecar M603 APFSDS with 260mm penetration?
South Korea M41-67 should be changed to M41-65? It’s the same performance
South Korea M47 Patton (Retired in 2003, 2/3 had their M36 replaced by exM48 M41 guns from 1984)
Lebanon had M3 Halftrack with 90mm Antitank gun like Israel
There are four types of Cockerill guns:
A - Cockerill Mk.1 & 2 used in the Indonesia Commando V-150 4x4
B - Cockerill Mk.3 / EC90 & Cockerill Mk.3M-A2 no APFSDS-T, ammo Mecar M620A1 or IMBEL NR478A2 HEAT-T, factory says 250mm/90* at 1500m, it can also fire Mecar M625A1 or IMBEL NR503A3 HESH-T to maximum range of +2000m. Used by Chad, Sudan & Thailand Commando V-150 4x4, Malaysia Sibmas 6x6, Chile Piranha 6x6, Indonesia PT76B(M) Nimda, Tunisia EE11 Urutu 6x6 and all EE9 Cascavel M.III, IV & V 6x6. There cant be no EC90-88
The APFSDS built in 1988 by Engequímica de Juiz de Fora, MG (Brazil) was never series built and for use in the EC90 the gun muzzle brake had to be cut, each round cost the same as a family car, its was reported at penetrating 300mm/90* at 1100m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUVKVCjBv60
C - Cockerill Mk.3M-A1 with a single-baffle muzzle brake for firing Mecar M652A1 APFSDS-T, factory says 200mm/90* at +1500m. Used by Indonesia, Malaysia & Nigeria Scorpion 90 and Portugal & Saudi Arabia Commando V-150S 4x4
Here at 42.10 you can compare the size of a Cockerill Mk.3M-A1 in the Commando V-150S with a Mauser Mk.2 30mm of the Pandur II, you can also see that Portuguese gun has a simple muzzle brake, making it able to fire APFSDS-T, the model was bought specifically to fire APFSDS-T to be able to defeat ERA armour, the vehicle is too light for the gun, vehicle crews suffer hard when firing APFSDS-T
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnYz7kUaoA
D - Cockerill Mk.8 firing Mecar M690A1 APFSDS-T(300mm/90* at 2000m, 260mm/90* at 3000m) and Mecar M691A2 HESH-T. Used by Belgium Piranha IIIC 8x8, Gulf states (Qatar) Piranha II 8x8, Gulf states (Kuwait) Pandur 6x6 and Saudi Arabia LAV-AG 8x8

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  #2  
Old December 28th, 2017, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

I have saved this and will review it when time allows.....

BUT

Quote:
Brazil never had Tamoio or Osorio Tanks
THAT'S WHY THEY ARE CALLED "Engesa"....... IT'S A PROTOTYPE FORMATION !

you found this with MOBHack didn't you ?? If you had "found" them in the game you would have "found" the explanation text

Engesa Tank Platoon*
*
Prototype and initial production tanks for your use in hypothetical scenarios. Enough of these tanks were produced to field a company of various models should the need have arisen (for example, if Brazil was invaded). They can also be used in hypothetical scenarios where, for example, the USA did not intervene when Iraq invaded Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia would then have completed the planned purchase of 318 Osorios to use against Iraq.*
*
Engesa was formed as a private firm in 1963. Initially, it was involved in renovating World War II-vintage tanks. Engesa built wheeled APC's, such as the EE-11 Urutu amphibious APC, the EE-9 Cascavel armored reconnaissance vehicle, the EE-17 Sucuri tank destroyer, and the EE-3 Jararaca scout car, in addition to a wide range of other products. The EE-11 Urutu armored troop carrier is an amphibian that can also be used by naval forces. It is still used by the Brazilian Army. It made a success in the international sales market, and is in service in a number (over 20) of Armies worldwide, in addition to the Brazilian Army.*
*
Engesa's APC's were all based on a new proprietary suspension system, called "Engesa Boomerang". This ingenious suspension system, along with many other modifications, expanded the life span of many otherwise obsolescent World War II-vintage vehicles.*
*
Engesa embarked on an ambitious tank project with the goal of selling a modern tank to Saudi Arabia, and thereby winning more contracts worldwide. The prototype tanks went through several stages and finished an initial production run for trials. The Osorio was accepted for testing by Saudi Arabia and others, but Desert Storm intervened. The resulting close ties between Suadi Arabia and the USA led the Saudis to purchase M1 Abrams. Shortly thereafter Engesa filed for bankruptcy.*
*
Engesa has been dismembered, with some of its companies sold to private interests, and ordnance-related firms taken over by the state and integrated with the Indústria de Material Bélico do Brasil (IMBEL - Brazil's Industry of War Weapons and Equipments).*


So they stay exactly as they are and I'm betting there is more like that in your list
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Old December 28th, 2017, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

Yep - simple checking of the unit class of the unit in question on the formations tab in the database check utilities module would show all formations using it. And the name.

in Mobhack:
File -> check database Utilities

Also see the Mobhack Help section with the same name (you will have to scroll to it or search, its not indexed for some reason)

NB = In the next edition of Mobhack there is a button available for formation or unit data text as well built in - it shows "edit" if formation or unit text exists or "create" if none does. It makes checking and creating those texts much easier since you do not have to manually create them, or manually open coded text files or fire up the game to read them.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post

NB = In the next edition of Mobhack there is a button available for formation or unit data text as well built in - it shows "edit" if formation or unit text exists or "create" if none does. It makes checking and creating those texts much easier since you do not have to manually create them, or manually open coded text files or fire up the game to read them.
Exelent some have got divorced from the unit due to changes in the OOB
Also makes adding a note far easier for the complex OOBs that represent several factions.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post

NB = In the next edition of Mobhack there is a button available for formation or unit data text as well built in - it shows "edit" if formation or unit text exists or "create" if none does. It makes checking and creating those texts much easier since you do not have to manually create them, or manually open coded text files or fire up the game to read them.
Exelent some have got divorced from the unit due to changes in the OOB
Also makes adding a note far easier for the complex OOBs that represent several factions.
The new text addition feature to MOBHack is a joy to use compared to the "old way"
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Old December 30th, 2017, 05:29 AM

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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

Very good, my intention is that you take a look at the 90mm gunsm mainly the cockerill ones, becouse the vehicles and gun types correspondence dont match reality.
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  #7  
Old December 30th, 2017, 07:51 AM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
NB = In the next edition of Mobhack there is a button available for formation or unit data text as well built in - it shows "edit" if formation or unit text exists or "create" if none does. It makes checking and creating those texts much easier since you do not have to manually create them, or manually open coded text files or fire up the game to read them.
Thank You! It is these "Quality of life" improvements that are great to see!
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  #8  
Old December 30th, 2017, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

The other thing we found out was why the unit and formation data was not showing in the text field (it was wrong since DOS days). So now you only have to use the normal "*" formatting characters for newline and "**" for a paragraph as per the scenario introduction texts.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

Yes......no more guessing about how long the line should be to fit properly in the space available and the space available is greater now

This is how the text looks for you now



This is how it will look in the next release



There is a bit more room for text in SPWW2 because it does not have the ERA armour line



DO NOT expect 1000's of new text files though !

Don
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Old January 4th, 2018, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: 90mm Tank Guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC4 View Post
M41-Be83 is with the Mecar M603 APFSDS with 260mm penetration?
Am I supposed to guess what exactly you think is wrong with this.......and what OOB you are referring to ???????

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC4 View Post
Lebanon had M3 Halftrack with 90mm Antitank gun like Israel
Wonderful news......now since you seem to know so much about it why not include the service dates .....or am I expected to stop everything else I'm doing and research the in and out of service dates for obscure Lebanese equipment ??

NOTE to EVERYONE....... THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO PRESENT INFORMATION !
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