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  #1  
Old January 28th, 2013, 01:22 AM

mscfish mscfish is offline
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Default About green dragon

In cbm
Green dragon is much more powerful than the others dragon.

bile(aoe10)
prot22
dom 2(others is 1)

All that makes green dragon almost can attack any indy,even heavy cavalery

If you want to expand very quickly,use green dragon and set it awake.

So i doubt that is it too powerful in cbm,and maybe we should nerf it.
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  #2  
Old January 28th, 2013, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: About green dragon

Note that bile is a poison breath attack, so it does not do direct damage but is applied over time instead. This gives the dragon's targets time to attack it in melee and possibly do significant damage to it.

The frost breath and fire breath of the blue and red dragons do direct damage and thus eliminate any units they hit instantly if the damage is high enough.

As far as the Dominions strength difference, that may or may not be a mod error. I don't know.
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  #3  
Old January 28th, 2013, 03:26 AM

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Default Re: About green dragon

The dominions difference appears to be an error in the CBM mod. On the selection screen all the dragons say starting dominion 1, and after selection the base dom for the Red and Blue dragons are 1 and the base dom for the Green dragon shows as 2.

The mod is inconsistent with itself from one screen to the next, so it is definitely a bug.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 07:26 AM

mscfish mscfish is offline
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Default Re: About green dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edi View Post
Note that bile is a poison breath attack, so it does not do direct damage but is applied over time instead. This gives the dragon's targets time to attack it in melee and possibly do significant damage to it.

The frost breath and fire breath of the blue and red dragons do direct damage and thus eliminate any units they hit instantly if the damage is high enough.

As far as the Dominions strength difference, that may or may not be a mod error. I don't know.
If someone choose dragon which is awake as the pretender,the mostly use of it is expansion.And then you will find that "bile" is much more useful than "frost breath"&"fire breath" to kill indys.
And because of Dom2&prot22&flying&fear,Green dragon is the most effective pretender for expasion in the early game.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 11:13 AM

parone parone is offline
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Default Re: About green dragon

i stink with dragons. but still, i don't see while the bile attack is better than frost/fire breath.

the most convincing case for the superiority of the green dragon is it's potential for regen, but that is fanto's idea, not mine(as she is, oh, i don't know, about 10X smarter than i am) but you don't mention that.

why would bile be better? i have had trouble getting dragons killed, so i would think the delayed effect would be negative, as it gives it's enemies time to inflict damage.

another thought on early expo/pretenders is that some pretenders have the ability to be a SC chasis while also producing freespawn, which, used correctly with a second commander, can become a separate expo group every two to three turns(if you are crafty). of course, the dragons don't have this.

so i think you really can't say any one of them is the 'best' for expo. and that is awesome, cus different ideas are what makes the games fun.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 11:44 AM

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Default Re: About green dragon

I personally think in CBM, green dragon is the best amongst all three dragons, simply because the poison breath attack is aoe 10(aoe 3 for fire and cold breath) which is enough to hit all units before they get close to melee range. Not to metion the poison damage tick works really well with fear the dragons have.

It can expand on its own without any items except occasionally poison ressit troops(undead), with its mobility only a gorgon matches its early expansion capability.

Other dragons does aoe3 breath attack. in an average case you get 2-3 fires before are forced to fight in melee(assuming alone), aoe3 simply does not punch out enough damages.

Green dragon is "superior" to any other early-expanding awake pretender choices but whether or not it deserves a nerf I'm not really sure.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 11:50 AM

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Default Re: About green dragon

The green dragon is intentionally physically more powerful than the red and blue dragons, since Water and Fire blesses are seen as more powerful and are harder to get from other chasses. The green dragon was previously rarely a good choice, so I've tried to give it a bit of a boost.

The delayed damage from the bile obviously makes it much weaker per unit AOE. With AOE 10 though, it is indeed quite powerful.

The dominion thing is a bug, I'll fix that in the next version.
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  #8  
Old January 29th, 2013, 06:54 PM

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Default Re: About green dragon

ahh. the vastly larger AOE is big. didn't know that. coupled with its regen, sounds like he truly could be nasty.

still think calling any one 'superior' or 'the best' is a stretch.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 12:27 AM

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Default Re: About green dragon

It is not so much of a stretch really. I was thinking about making a post about the green dragon myself underlining why it is a fantastic choice for early game in competitive MP games. Here are some reasons:

The thing with the green dragon is really the dom2 it starts with. If you use a green dragon with nature-4 and dom9 (it really needs awe to being able to expand safely on turn 1), you get +80 points left when you start fiddling with your scales. The same setup with red/blue only gives you +24 points. That means you can take 2 better scales with the green dragon for "free".

The ability to fairly safely expand on turn 1 is huge, since you get a very strong second turn with more gold and more resources as well, which will mean a very strong expansion rate/new forts etc. you should however pick a forest to avoid running into knights just to be on the safe side. You can actually use slightly lower production scale since you will have access to bonus production from a neighbouring forest (which you would not normaly have).
(I ran 30+ test with this and even with indy-7 he never got killed expanding blindly, and the area 10 bile is great and synergies well with the fear/awe).

On top of this nature-4 (he will have nature 4 in human form, 2 in dragon) gives you access (using some forging) to high level nature and those early great globals like gift of health, mother oak, enchanted forest.

And as icing on the cake once he gets personal regen he gets very hard to kill, the ice/fire drake has nothing as good in early mid game.

It is true about the bless that fire and water are better however (though nature can be very useful on giants).

So as an awake SC for early expansion I have not found a better choice that is available to most nations.

The way to use green dragon in my opinion to take indies (for those that have problem using dragons) is to put him all the way to the back (like a corner) and script him to hold hold fire(closest). This will result in him using the bile when he can and attacking normaly once the indies close in on him.

Just my 2 cents.
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  #10  
Old January 30th, 2013, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: About green dragon

I wish i had read your post before my first try with a dragon.
Nice optimization of the green dragon play. Thx for the idea EH.
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