SP with better Graphics?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by gabeeg

I have to agree with what Antonm says. I think there is a large (for a niche market) segment of current, ex (and potential future players) of Steel Panthers (original, winsp and spwaw)waiting for a modern interface, updated 2d graphics and maps and support for wide screen, true color displays. It is a topic that keeps being posted every few months on every steel panthers forum I follow. It is my favorite game, as is...but I would love to see it updated.

We already support widescreen. The Beta test was run with winSPMBT and will be introduced in the next patch for CD owners. As for the rest ......if we did contemplate that type of extensive update ( and we don't... ) it WOULD require a full rewrite of the code and if we did a full rewrite of the code it wouldn't be "Steel Panthers" any longer because we wouldn't waste thousands of hours more modifying existing code with all the imposed restrictions that entails. IF we were going to do that we would have done it 5 years ago and had we done that five years ago we *might* be at the Beta stage now and for absolute certain there would be no winspww2 or winspmbt .

As for the "large niche Market" all I can say is.....there is nothing "large" about the market for this type of computer wargame. Never has been, never will be no matter how fancy the graphics are



Don

[gabeeg]

I am assuming that the wide-screen support that was beta tested in WinSPMBT will be in the next CD-owners patch for WinSPWW2 also? Unfortunately I do not own the CD for MBT...just WW2 so have not gotten to experience the wide-screen addition...but am looking forward to it!

I fully understand and agree with the argument against a re-write if that would be what is required...too much time and effort for not enough potential sales (by large segment of a niche market...I meant large group of a small community which = small). I wouldn't do it either, if I were a developer.

I maybe way off here, but it seems to me that the issue with grahics some perceive is not pixel or art related but possibly pallete related. Is the pallete limited to 8bit or under? (I am just a player...not a designer so have not investigated nor understand creating maps/icons/scenarios). If so, would it also require a re-write to increase the usable pallete?

[Imp]

I think & may be wrong here the issue with graphics is an age thing sure I read somewhere the younger market values looks over playability 3D is near enough a must for a main stream game. As this by no means falls into the category of mainstream it does not apply really.
Unless you are talking dire graphics to me it makes no diffrence & changing a 2D game to a 3D game is a pointless exercise unless the game is modified to make the inclusion of 3D usefull. I have played breifly many games that are in fact just old games dressed up in fancy 3D clothes & the one consistent thing is they are normally worse than the originals with poor interfaces or cameras that get lost etc.
First Person Shooter with near realistic 3D now thats good helps with immersion & makes the game so long as its gameplay is sound. The big snag & I may be wrong is nowadays it costs so much money to get the graphics to the level the market wants very few games actually have any money left over to spend on game play

[gabeeg]

I for one would not be interested in a 3D version...The only game in 3D that I have liked is Silent Hunter III and IV...the rest were harder for me to follow (I tried with Combat Mission Shock Force...but it just does not work as well for me). With this type of game I think there is nothing more appropriate than a 2D top down view.

maybe it is an age thing...I grew up on over the board war games.

I am interested in the best 2D top down environment and UI possible for this game though. It is all just an academic exercise as it would require a rewrite, and that will not happen (justifably).

[Roman]

Originally Posted by Imp

Adding adjusting zoom level by mouse wheel is doable the rest is in your dreams & dont fully understand or maybe I am old school

Hello IMP. I just asked to use the zoom with mouse wheel and nothing else. Look, I am the complainant unless the site lol.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Roman

Hello IMP. I just asked to use the zoom with mouse wheel and nothing else. Look, I am the complainant unless the site lol.

Realise that Roman & as I said not a bad idea it might even happen at some point, off the top of my head though I probably use next/previous target more so getting it to do N+P on the scroll & T on wheel press saves "stretching" to the keyboard. Course you could always make them user definable.

[DRG]

I have wondered in the past if the graphics complaints might not be sometimes related to the way people set up the brightness level of their computer. I have seen on two occasions games installed on other machines that had severely washed out graphics and that was because they had the brightness set way up and to be quite frank the game looks like crap when it's too bright

The problem with describing what it "should" look like is that everybody has their own preferences on how they are comfortable looking at their screen and how they have it set up will influence how examples look but if you game looks more like the thumbnail on the right you have the brightness turned up too high on your monitor.

Another test is the "black" flag that appears when you fight one country against itself. If you can see a diagonal bar across that flag your monitor is set too bright. Every monitor is different and everyone sets them up differently ( and everyones eyes are not the same ) but my monitor is and always has been, set to 50% brightness and 85 % contrast

Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by gabeeg

I am assuming that the wide-screen support that was beta tested in WinSPMBT will be in the next CD-owners patch for WinSPWW2 also?

Yes. The next release for both games will include the widescreen support for CD owners

Don

[Cross]

My 2 cents:

I like the 2D environment and the graphics.

I like to play with the Hex Grid turned OFF. It perhaps took a whole game to get used to, but I've found that I can more easily recognise map features and in particular hill levels and slopes. This has not been the cause of misclicks! I mostly PBEM so you can't take back wrong moves, and so I would soon be using the Grid if it caused problems.

There's a Hot Key '.' (dot) to turn the map Hex Grid OFF and ON. I recommend using it. I only turn it on briefly, a couple of times a battle, to count hexes and figure out where some hidden ATk gun/MG fire is probably coming from.

There's a couple of different infantry mods available if you want more visible infantry icons; and you can also turn on ID Tags (flags) in the preferences screen (there's no Hot Key for ID tags).

Cross



or two to

[gabeeg]

Originally Posted by Cross

My 2 cents:

I like the 2D environment and the graphics.

I like to play with the Hex Grid turned OFF. It perhaps took a whole game to get used to, but I've found that I can more easily recognise map features and in particular hill levels and slopes. This has not been the cause of misclicks! I mostly PBEM so you can't take back wrong moves, and so I would soon be using the Grid if it caused problems.

There's a Hot Key '.' (dot) to turn the map Hex Grid OFF and ON. I recommend using it. I only turn it on briefly, a couple of times a battle, to count hexes and figure out where some hidden ATk gun/MG fire is probably coming from.

There's a couple of different infantry mods available if you want more visible infantry icons; and you can also turn on ID Tags (flags) in the preferences screen (there's no Hot Key for ID tags).

Cross

Cross, I just discovered the hex grid off in my last PBEM game...you are absolutely correct. It made map reading much easier for me...still not perfect, but much easier. I am glad you brought this up, it may help others.

As for the infantry mods, I have a problem with the small infantry...I do not like spending time hunting when a PBEM turn has taken awhile and I do not exactly recall where everthing is (even with ID tags...since I like mine small). A long time ago someone came up with a larger infantry mod where the helmets are a bit bigger and contrasts a little better with the surroundings. I am pretty sure I found it in an old TOE post...does anybody recall this mods name or author? It may help those that have issue with locating infantry in forest hexes, etc.