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  #1  
Old February 24th, 2017, 04:16 AM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
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Default Gun shields

The illustrated encyclopedia of artillery by Ian Hogg says a gun sheild is,
A steel plate... to protect the gun detachment from bullets and shell splinters.

Could AT guns get a value of 1 for HF and TF to show this?
When shielded guns are mounted on vehicles they sometimes get the 1 value for their sheild, for example
Great Britians unit 387 C9/B 40mm SPAA or Germanies 484 SdKfz 8 FlaK 18 and 956 RSO/PaK 40
Other vehicles with AT guns mounted on top can be treated differently,
Such as German units 867 868 UE630 3.7 PaK, 611 PzJ Bren(e) PaK and 709 PzKw 740(r). These vehicles have turret 1 values for front sides and rear, but maybe should have 0 value turret sides and rear.

Also many field guns have a shield and maybe should have a front hull and front turret value of 1.

French unit 205 Laffly W15 TCC comes in both fully enclosed and just a gun shield version. You are using the fully enclosed version.

Besides all the AT and field guns these units could also have a front 1 value shield,

The Russian 37mm (054) and 85mm (112,382) AA guns sometimes did have a shield fitted, also the Japanese 75mm AA gun (159,187) sometimes had a shield.
French canone 105 courte mle 1935 B and canone 105 L mle 1936 Schneider (047?,218?) wheels toe in to form a shield.
Russian Pulemet Maksima Obrazets 1910 MG, (057,443,514,610) Degtyereva-Shpagina Obrazets 1938 G (059,444,613), Pulemet Obrazets 1939 (439,445,611) and Stankovii Pilemet Goryunova Obrazets 1943G (058,442,612) often have a shield. The Japanese type 92 HMG (038,316) can also have a shield fitted.(according to forgotten weapons utube videos)

I think adding a shield would be a good improvement, making these items a bit more survivable than they are, they already have the bunched up crew penalty and will remain very exposed to overhead shelling.
I can identify all the units in all the OObs that need this change if that is helpfull.
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  #2  
Old February 24th, 2017, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: Gun shields

Gun shields wont happen.

Guns, like MG teams, mortars, and infantry are soft targets, engaged by HE. That is SP game mechanics 101. There are entirely different great big bits of code for hitting armour and soft targets.

At the best - it would be treated as a tin can armoured target, easily penetrated by AP and shell fire (on the bits with 0 armour).

So gun shields aren't happening, nor is infantry body armour.
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  #3  
Old February 24th, 2017, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Gun shields

If you want to see how well gun shields "protect" look at the photo for USMC unit 277



The game stays as it has always been. "1" offers too much protection. That would make them invulnerable to small arms which they most certainly WERE NOT
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  #4  
Old February 24th, 2017, 10:20 PM

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Default Re: Gun shields

I would think the gun shields were also to protect the gunner and loader from all the crud that can get kicked up. I have fired recoilless rifles and in any terrain with exposed soil (except mud) dust, dirt and pieces of vegetation rise up. I learned to make sure my mouth was closed.
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  #5  
Old February 28th, 2017, 05:03 AM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
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Default Re: Gun shields

Alright, Still Learning. But maybe there is some wriggle room here. I did do some testing, I mobhacked 2 pdr's to have steel HF and TF values of 20 and no ammunition so I could see the changes had stuck. Panzerjager 1's would only fire HE at them and destroyed them.
I expected the panzerjager 1's to fire AP and not be able to destroy them!
What I am doing wrong here?
Anyway yes 1 is too big a value, this site shows some shield thicknesses.
http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bul...n%20shield.htm

Im not sure what your thinking is on AT gun shields on vehicles but maybe the commonwealth Portee's should get a TF value of 1 to bring them into line with the vehicles I listed in the previous post?

Maybe the shielded weapons I mentioned before might have the bunched up crew penalty removed from them to acknowledge that the sheild is better than nothing but not as good as 1 armour value?
I can list all the affected units if that is helpfull.

I cannot find anything about this vehicle anywhere, Great Britian's unit 681 20mm AA Truck, it is armoured, maybe it should have steel armour values of 0 instead of 1?
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  #6  
Old February 28th, 2017, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Gun shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Alright, Still Learning. But maybe there is some wriggle room here. I did do some testing, I mobhacked 2 pdr's to have steel HF and TF values of 20 and no ammunition so I could see the changes had stuck. Panzerjager 1's would only fire HE at them and destroyed them.
I expected the panzerjager 1's to fire AP and not be able to destroy them!
What I am doing wrong here?
I think you have had a definitive answer from the games developers above, but to answer this question: The 2pounders are still in a gun class (#6 AT gun), the game knows they cannot be armoured and therefore fires HE to kill them as normal - just hacking steel armour on them will NOT change the behaviour this would need to be done at a code level, which is NOT going to happen. I think you need to review your understanding of unit classes...
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  #7  
Old February 28th, 2017, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Gun shields

Exactly correct

Thank you Mark

Don
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  #8  
Old March 1st, 2017, 10:57 AM

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Default Re: Gun shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Maybe the shielded weapons I mentioned before might have the bunched up crew penalty removed from them to acknowledge that the sheild is better than nothing but not as good as 1 armour value?
Keep in mind that a crew that has bunched up behind a gun shield is still quite vulnerable target to small arms fire from sides or flank. And HE rounds exploding to their side or rear (regardless of where they are falling from).

If you want to customise your own OOBs to make guns with shields a little bit more survivable, then adding them an extra crew member might be the easiest way.
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