.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

AATF - Save $5.00
winSPWW2 - Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old December 25th, 2016, 12:06 PM
Aeraaa's Avatar

Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 247
Thanks: 48
Thanked 69 Times in 52 Posts
Aeraaa is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

To begin with, merry X-mas to everyone, best wishes to you and your families!

Now, on topic...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post

In general the Turkish military performs quite average in Syria. And to get into a game issue, I think their inflated base experience and morale are not in accordnance to their RL performance...
Hindsight is always 20/20 --- any enemy can get lucky .......and Greeks commenting about Turks.....gee, how did I expect that to go ..... The Turks ratings right now are the high side of average-----we'll see how this develops.
First of all, I don't understand why nationality prevents someone from commenting. Americans do comment on Russian military, Israelis on Arab militaries etc. Second, the Turks in the game have 73 BE and 77 morale in 2016. That puts them almost in the same league as France and Germany (around 75 BE IIRC) and actually with higher morale than both. They even have better xp and morale than Russian military (70 on both values), even though IMHO the latter is definitely more experienced and motivated (come to think of it the comtemporary Russian military is undervalued in the game).
Turkey isn't much more experienced or motivated than the average NATO countries that are in the 69-66 range. That is my point.
I do agree with what you said about hindsight though and I remembered that most events regarding Turkey happened after the latest update. One thing that is certain is that the coup attempt of July (and the purges that followed) did certainly have an effect on the ability of the Turkish military and I think that it should reflected in the next update (a drop in values after July 2016).
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aeraaa For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old December 27th, 2016, 05:05 AM

dmnt dmnt is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 284
Thanks: 41
Thanked 96 Times in 79 Posts
dmnt is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp10 View Post

This article from defence blog is dated 3 days before the above link and identifies it as ATGM hits (Fagot or Konkurs) , http://defence-blog.com/army/two-tur...-in-syria.html


And a Konkurs in the side WILL ruin your day
And having a hull down position and the tank next to you destroyed by an atgm and not doing a thing about it is guaranteed to ruin your day really soon...

Like one armoured corps officer said, "using the tanks like Iraqi army in 1990's as a static fortress..."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old December 27th, 2016, 05:33 PM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is online now
Major General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,051
Thanks: 169
Thanked 420 Times in 328 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

One can't entirely fault the Iraqi generals/troops. They were stuck in a situation they (for the most part) knew they had no business being in and did the best they could with what they had.
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old December 28th, 2016, 05:40 PM
SaS TrooP's Avatar

SaS TrooP SaS TrooP is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wodzisław, Silesia, Poland
Posts: 244
Thanks: 5
Thanked 122 Times in 47 Posts
SaS TrooP is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed




This pretty much sums it up, but that data is like 1 week old.
Hard to give me links now. There are few more videos of Leopards being hit or destroyed. Most of good scores were recorded.

Even Leopard is worthless if operated by worthless crews and commanded by worthless leaders.
This pretty much sums up Turkish military potential.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old December 28th, 2016, 07:05 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 8,479
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,895 Times in 990 Posts
DRG is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

.........and why their ratings are on the list for review
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #16  
Old December 29th, 2016, 01:30 AM
shahadi's Avatar

shahadi shahadi is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: I ain't in Kansas anymore, just north of where Dorothy clicked her heels is where you'll find me.
Posts: 652
Thanks: 322
Thanked 171 Times in 133 Posts
shahadi is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

The Turkish 2nd Army is doing the fighting along the southern border. Any question of the Turks ability to fight in Syria is best answered by it's 2nd Army.

With regard to how it may respond to a regional escalation is another question, that may be gathered by looking at it's global power ranking, somewhere between #8 and #10 globally.

=====
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old December 29th, 2016, 03:39 AM
Aeraaa's Avatar

Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 247
Thanks: 48
Thanked 69 Times in 52 Posts
Aeraaa is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
The Turkish 2nd Army is doing the fighting along the southern border. Any question of the Turks ability to fight in Syria is best answered by it's 2nd Army.

With regard to how it may respond to a regional escalation is another question, that may be gathered by looking at it's global power ranking, somewhere between #8 and #10 globally.

=====
Just one minor correction, the Leo-2 formations were pulled from the 1st Army (the one stationed in Eastern Thrace) and attached to 2nd Army.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Aeraaa For This Useful Post:
  #18  
Old December 29th, 2016, 07:00 AM
shahadi's Avatar

shahadi shahadi is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: I ain't in Kansas anymore, just north of where Dorothy clicked her heels is where you'll find me.
Posts: 652
Thanks: 322
Thanked 171 Times in 133 Posts
shahadi is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
The Turkish 2nd Army is doing the fighting along the southern border. Any question of the Turks ability to fight in Syria is best answered by it's 2nd Army.

With regard to how it may respond to a regional escalation is another question, that may be gathered by looking at it's global power ranking, somewhere between #8 and #10 globally.

=====
Just one minor correction, the Leo-2 formations were pulled from the 1st Army (the one stationed in Eastern Thrace) and attached to 2nd Army.
Let's give that, a formation from the 1st was attached to the 2nd Army, arguably one of lesser experience than those of the 2nd Army, does not permit us to besmeerch the capability of the 2nd Army.

Further, the ranking assigned to Turkey in the game, maybe about right given it's power ranking derived from outside sources.

=====
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old December 29th, 2016, 08:27 AM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 8,479
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,895 Times in 990 Posts
DRG is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

for clarity....I said the Turk ratings "are on the list for review"........it does NOT mean there WILL be a change only that we will do further investigations and comparisons before the next release and then decide if an adjustment might be warranted. I'd like to think the Turkish Army is doing the same thing with their tactical approach in that area of engagement. 6 Leos lost to ATGM suggests a change in tactics might be in order and perhaps a contract to equip them with Trophy ( or equivalent ) might be a fine idea
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old December 29th, 2016, 09:58 AM
SaS TrooP's Avatar

SaS TrooP SaS TrooP is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wodzisław, Silesia, Poland
Posts: 244
Thanks: 5
Thanked 122 Times in 47 Posts
SaS TrooP is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Leo2A4 destroyed

Will the list of "experience/morale to change" be published before the release to possibly discuss it?

Yes, I may have some question regarding some countries.

As of Turkish military power, we should probably ask Greeks and Armenian first who know and fear their possible power. Yet, I somehow believe that Turkish capacity is judged after their fine appearance in Cypriot War of 1974. But we must remember Cypriot military back then was not best either: old equipment, lack of funds to finance organization and training, not to mention internal terrorism problem etc.

Beating Cyprus quickly was not that hard really. Similar story with Iraq. As far as I heard from veterans, Iraqis were feared and treated at equal enemy in 1991. Their quick colapse was a shock for many.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SaS TrooP For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.