T-72b Rogatka

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Wdll

I haven't seen anything that suggests the Krisantema to be able to "see" that far away when other vehicles can't. I can understand having increased fire control, but not viewing range.

Well, if you have read the published specs the missile range is supposed to be six kilometers. Given it is a radar guided systems it seems logical that detection could be accomplished at least within a good fraction of such range.
Nearly all others vehicles in the game use thermal sights which operate on a different principle, with different advantages and disadvantages.

[Wdll]

That doesn't make any sense.
Leo2s for example have a view of 40. In real life they can see and kill at far great range. That doesn't mean that the 40 view range in the game is too little.
And if your issue is that it uses radar, so do all helicopters. In fact Hellfires shouldn't even be able to lose track of the target while in air, but we all know that this is not how they work.

I am sorry, but in game terms there is no way any land vehicle, especially this short and without protracted radar mast to be able to see 50% more than modern equipped MBTs, or even gunships.
You want its missile to have a six km range? Fine with me, but having that short carrier ability to detect through bad conditions etc more than any tank, helicopter, is silly IMO.
The range of the missile is irrelevant, my problem is with the view range of the vehicle and I have seen nothing to propose it has equipment which can detect targets at 50% more than anything else on a battlefield under bad or not conditions.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Wdll

That doesn't make any sense.
And if your issue is that it uses radar, so do all helicopters.

Actually not. Only the most modern ones and they too have 60 as per game covention for high end radar systems. See unit 340 in OOB 44 or unit 123 in USA OOB.

In fact Hellfires shouldn't even be able to lose track of the target while in air, but we all know that this is not how they work.

As I recall, it depends on the model.

I am sorry, but in game terms there is no way any land vehicle, especially this short and without protracted radar mast to be able to see 50% more than modern equipped MBTs, or even gunships.

It does not outrange all gunships, only the non radar fitted ones. And it does outrange TI tanks but that is is realistic. Thermal sights and radars have different features.

You want its missile to have a six km range? Fine with me, but having that short carrier ability to detect through bad conditions etc more than any tank, helicopter, is silly IMO.

1) Again, it does not outrange all helicopters.
2) The pop up radar sensor isn't probably all that much lower than a lot of tanks' gunner sights (Leopard 2A4 comes to mind), and radar horizon is generally greater than visual one due to propagation characteristics.

I have seen nothing to propose it has equipment which can detect targets at 50% more than anything else on a battlefield under bad or not conditions.

And as a matter of fact it does not. Plenty of helos with same range

[Marcello]

Note also also there are a lot of vehicles with range of 50 such as unit 206 in the Ukraine OOB, unit 272 in Russia or unit 558 in the USA, to represent less capable radar systems. All of these can see further than TI equipped MBTs in the game.

[Wdll]

How can you...this is insane...
Yes there are helos that manage to have the same range.

They are HELICOPTERS flying higher than 2m from the ground and they are the not even the rule among helicopters. There are plenty of helicopters that have view range of 0. Does this mean the pilot has a blanket covering the helicopter?

I am sorry, but I have seen nothing to make me believe that the specific unit is entitled to a view range of 60. I don't care if the missile can hit the moon. The vehicle does not have the optics to see (in relation to the other ones) that far away.

[Imp]

Fail to see the logic here being a helicopter or a ground unit makes zero diffrence to the visibility rating the extra height of the helo does make a diffrence to its fields of view as it can see over stuff the ground unit cant.
What that means is it can make use of its visibility rating far better than the ground unit because any obstacle blocks the view.
Visibility ratings & fields of view are two entirely diffrent things land the helo & it can now see what the comparitvly equipped ground vehicle can see.
Stick the ground vehicle on a level 5 hill & it now has better fields of view than the low flying helo thats now below it skimming over level zero ground.

Yes the helicopter with vis 0 has a blanket over it if global vision dictates, moonless night or fog if you want a blanket, its likely to find a hill abruptly before it finds a target if it tries NOE.
If it goes high its a prime target for any ground unit with vision aids & AA capability.

[Wdll]

I didn't expect you to agree with me Imp, but what you said about helos still doesn't change what I said about the specific vehicle.
There is nothing showing that the specific vehicle has better optics/view/whatever you want to call it, than most modern vehicles, including modern gunships. As for the hill example, it works the other way too, place a modern gunship (except 1 or 2 models) on top of that same hill level 5, and it will see less than the khrisantema-s. Based on what?
Again, we are not talking about the range or guidance of the missile, but the view of the VEHICLE in question.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Wdll

How can you...this is insane...
There are plenty of helicopters that have view range of 0. Does this mean the pilot has a blanket covering the helicopter?

In a dense fog/bad conditions an helicopter with no vision aid will indeed see exactly diddly squat even if it is flying at 300 meters of height.As any pilot will attest.

Whereas a radar system on the ground will see much further than it becausese radar waves penetrate fog (which incidentally can play some tricks at least with some thermal sights). Understand?

And if visibility is **** and the both have radars they will see only as far as their radar can see.

If the radar mounted on the helicopter is not more powerful and capable than the one on the ground it will not see further (not at the ranges we are talking about anyway) even if it is sitting on Himalaya. There will typically be fewer obstructions but that's it.

I can't make it simpler that the above.

[Marcello]

Note also that there already are several ground vehicles with a range of 50 in the game.A partial list including:

1) BTR-94
2) BRM-3K
3) M577A2
4) SNAR-10

[Marcello]

There is nothing showing that the specific vehicle has better optics/view/whatever you want to call it, than most modern vehicles, including modern gunships. As for the hill example, it works the other way too, place a modern gunship (except 1 or 2 models) on top of that same hill level 5, and it will see less than the khrisantema-s. Based on what?

On the fact it is fitted with a millimetric radar set, which all the others vehicles you keep talking about lack.
The presence of the radar is confirmed by every source and every picture of the vehicle.
And on the, well known, fact that radar has better long range detection characteristics than optical systems, including thermal sights, especially in several conditions. If you didn't know that, now you do. If you don't believe me, then do some reading on you own.
Thermal sights have several advantages such as lower bulk, lower vulnerability and power consumption, are passive and cannot be jammed, but radar does beat them at the pure range game, especially under some circumstance.
And radar fitted ground units, and there are several of them in the game even if you never noticed them, have always had greater range than thermal sights fitted MBTs you keep talking about, precisely to reflect this. There is absolutely nothing insane about this.