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  #1  
Old July 22nd, 2008, 11:59 AM
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Default British Crusader AA Mk I - 40MM - unit 80

The British Crusader AA Mk I is described as having a 2 Pdr AA gun.

I found a couple of sources that say this was actually a Bofors 40mm gun (as this was an AAA unit, this makes sense).

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/unitedki...iser/mk-vi.asp

http://www.ipedia.net/information/Crusader+tank

Of course the Bofors did fire a 2 pound round, so perhaps this caused some confusion.

Anyway,in SP the Crusader's AA gun is listed as:
ACC:10 Kill:14 Pen:1/2 Range:40 HE:35 AP:5

The Bofors (unit 64) is listed as:
ACC:14 Kill:15 Pen:1/7 Range:46 HE:35 AP:5

Compare this to the German SP 3.7cm Flak 36*:
ACC:14 Kill:14 Pen:1/6 Range:41 HE:35 AP:5

The Crusader's 40mm Bofors was issued with some AP rounds which had a 2.7" (7cm) penetration at 0 range.

Do you think the Crusader AA MK I should actually have a Bofors?
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: British Crusader AA Mk I - 40MM - unit 80

If the resources you quote back it up, then it may be worthwhile, if it were given some 40mm AP. (In other words, marginally useful, for a less than marginal vehicle in the UK OOB - it was probably not really fielded in reality, as the Jerry air threat had gone by then. Probably all were converted to Crusader gun tractors to tow 17pdr PDQ?).

Andy
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: British Crusader AA Mk I - 40MM - unit 80

Hi Andy,

The Crusader did suffer from mechanical problems, but these were resolved by 1942; however, the Crusader was obsolete - as a tank - by then. I guess that's why they decided to use the hulls.

The Crusader III AA Mk I
(with 40mm Bofors) 238 were built in 1943, and 210 were listed in service by Dec 1943.

The turret was a bit slow to engage low flying aircraft which is why they switched to 20mm for the Mk II. Not sure if you'd want to model this by reducing it's RoF or it's Fire Control or something...

However, it was still an effective weapon and I even found an interesting account of it being used on the front line in a direct fire roll with great effect.

The Bofors did have AP rounds issued. A semi-AP round was developed in 1941 followed by a full AP round. Britian produced one million AP rounds for the Bofors.

The Crusader III AA Mk II & Mk III
(with twin 20mm Oerlikon) 345 were built in 1943, 299 built in 1944. 163 were listed in service by the RAC in Dec 1943.
21st Army group shows they have 252 in service in June 1944.

The Mk II had some cramped crew issues which were resolved in the Mk III by moving the radio into the hull and adjusting the turret.

They were being phased out by August 1944 because of the few Luftwaffe targets. But they were still shipping them to Europe in August 1944. Many Brigades started to use the crews as tank crew replacements; some units kept them and they were still in service in 1945.

The 17 Pdr gun tractors you mentioned were called Crusader Towers. I found that 474 were produced in 1944 and 126 in 1945.

I you want references for any of this, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

cheers,
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: British Crusader AA Mk I - 40MM - unit 80

On a related topic.

While doing the above research, I discovered that the most common British SPAAA unit - by far - was the Morris C9/B and its twin brother the Ford F60B (built by the Canadians).


Here's a quote:

Two basic lorries were utilised to carry the 40 mm Bofors AA equipment - the Carrier, 30 cwt, SP, 4x4, 40 mm AA (Bofors) Morris-Commercial C9/B 30 cwt and the Truck, 3 ton, 4x4, Bofors, AA (Can) Ford F60B. The lorry-mounted 40 mm equipment was probably the most prolific of all British AA vehicles, being the standard equipment in all theatres of war.

And another source:

The Army also experimented with various self-propelled AA systems (SPAAGs) based on various tank chassis. Changes to the breech for this role created the QF 40 mm Mark VI, which was used on the Crusader to produce the Crusader III AA Mark I. They also designed a much lighter two-wheeled carriage for airborne use. But the main self-propelled version of the Bofors was with the gun set on the chassis of a Morris Commercial four-wheel drive lorry. Such guns were used in support of Army divisions to provide swift protection against air attack without the need to unlimber. They saw service in North West Europe, where six SP Bofors of 92nd (Loyals) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery, landed with 3rd British Infantry Division on Sword Beach on D-Day to protect the vital bridges over the Caen Canal and Orne River (Pegasus Bridge and Horsa Bridge), shooting down 17 German planes. Later in the campaign, SP Bofors were used extensively for ground shoots as well as in an anti-aircraft role.


Currently, SP doesn't have this kit available for the British OOB.

Perhaps you could put it on your list Don, for when you get he time in the future ;-)

Cheers,
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Old July 25th, 2008, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: British Crusader AA Mk I - 40MM - unit 80

Here's some pictures

The Morris C9/B (SP Bofors)








The Crusader III AA Mk I





The Crusader Tower (17 Pdr Gun Tractor)

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Old July 25th, 2008, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: British Crusader AA Mk I - 40MM - unit 80

I remember that 40mm gun-bus, as I had it in 1/300 back in the 70's- either Ros or Heroics, whoever was first to appear. The one that made single lumps with fixed turrets, and a pin for the gun, anyway. The other lot had soft metal gun barrels, which broke off a lot, but separate turrets. Minifigs made some too, but they were rare - too expensive?.

Cheers
Andy
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Old July 30th, 2008, 11:10 AM

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Default Re: British Crusader AA Mk I - 40MM - unit 80

IIRC Czechoslovakian armored brigade in UK had some Crusader AA's in its roster and I think they were even taken to the contnent when the Bde was deployed - will check out the variant and so on.
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