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  #241  
Old February 17th, 2020, 01:34 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Hopefully this works...
Name:  India-ARJUN MK-1A Spec.jpg
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Name:  ARJUN Mk-1A #1.jpg
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Name:  ARJUN Mk-1A #2.jpg
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Sending them via alternate method. See previous Post.

And can you delete this worthless post?


Regards,
Pat
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  #242  
Old February 17th, 2020, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

A couple do. most don't. Don't worry about it if I think I need better photos I know how to find them and as well the ones that do show are incorrect.. The second link from the end you have as a 1a is clearly marked II right on the tank's front left fender



And this link
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...n-2073023.html

Also claims the photo is a 1A but it is also clearly marked as a II...... and it's probably the same tank as the other photo

[IMG][/IMG]

Seeing as how convoluted this has become I am going to go out on a limb and say the 1A and the II are the same tank with "1A" being the working prototype name and in reality, what we should have is one unit named Arjun Mk IA/II
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  #243  
Old February 17th, 2020, 05:52 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

I would recommend keeping them separate. A couple of the sources are indicating that the ARJUN Mk-1 will be upgraded to the ARJUN Mk-1A standard during depot over haul as funds become available.

And there are a couple of issues with the ARJUN Mk-2 besides the outstanding "mystery" improvements NOT made on the ARJUN Mk-1A. I don't know how you shed just over 3 tons of weight on the chassis and maintain its overall strength to mount the same body onto it.

Unless they've developed a stronger steel composite we don't know about, it's very possible we could see a "smaller" MBT. As an example just because the Japanese TYPE 10 is a small tank doesn't mean I want to fight against it.

I can quite honestly see the ARJUN Mk-2 "dovetail" right into the LONG hoped for FMBT Program India has wanted, where the ARJUN Mk-2 will become the prototype MBT for that project.

ARJUN was always meant to get them to FMBT. The local political situation and finances have driven them to the ARJUN Mk-1A whether it takes them to the ARJUN Mk-2 is still up in the air, given India's history dealing with these tanks.

Remember it took them 30yrs. just to get them to the ARJUN (Prototype) and about another 3-5 years before we had the ARJUN Mk-1.

It would be more expediate in the mid term and financially sound, to just upgrade the ARJUN Mk-1 to the Mk-1A standard.

We don't need to follow India as much as we need to follow Pakistan. Why?

Remember I posted this within the last couple of years, the Ukraine and Pakistan have already signed the papers to in a sense
co-develop the OPLOT-P. That will drive India's ARJUN/FMBT issue more then the rest of it in my opinion.

Can you just edit the pictures since they'll be B&W anyway? Don't know never tried any of that myself.

Regards,
Pat
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  #244  
Old February 18th, 2020, 05:32 PM

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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Dont worry, I follow Pakistan. I have a complete changed Orbat for them. I am testing it to get it right.

The Pak government is investing on:
-more Al-Zarrar conversions from T59MII
-Upgrade all their T85IIAP
-Upgrade T80UD/T84 hybrid with some Oplot equipment
-new build Al-Khalid I (improved) (new mechanized Division forming)
-new T125-IIM ammo

Thanks
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  #245  
Old February 25th, 2020, 04:41 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

SPMBT Patch Post 2018/2019 Part 3
This I think will be the last MBT resubmission from that same Thread. First the depth some of us go to, too test and or verify our thoughts, sources and concerns. I would like to demonstrate that, as is the case here, for just one MBT. That being Ukraine’s OPLOT-M. I was seeing in game play a 3:1 kill ratio in favor of the T-72B3M/B4 against the OPLOT-M. This would be an incorrect conclusion based on everything we know about these tanks in the end.
From Page 85 Post 842.

A. Para 1 “I relied on my evaluations from the recent testing done, looked at the feedback I received from others, rechecked old refs and found new ones and checked my conclusions against its peer Russian T-90A UNIT 050, its main rival T-72B3M/B4 when I play the against the AI.”

B. Para 3 “As with the two already listed these next where also used to evaluate my numbers for STEEL/HEAT/ERA & STABILISER as submitted below. They are (The ones I've submitted or changed will have "*" by the name.) THAILAND *OPLOT-M (T) UNIT 019, UKRAINE T-84 UNIT 059, RUSSIAN *T-80BMV UNIT 046, SWEDEN *STRV-122A UNIT 358 (This tank was chosen because it is my firm belief there is no better "TOP" protected tank in the world. Acted as a check against me as the others did. This came about from tests conducted on their stock of Russian tanks with STRIX which proved devastating to them. Also these LEOPARD tanks were made to order for SWEDEN and NOT stock tanks. The "STEEL" for the turret hatch alone was increased just shy of 2 feet thick which means the surrounding "TOP" area has to be even thicker as all hatches are recessed to avoid such issues as over pressurization etc. no different than on a Submarine and verified by my co-worker "JAKE" (Helped us on some BRADLEY issues we were looking into in the past.) the ABRAMS/BRADLEY Driver/Gunner extraordinaire. For further see the FB Patch Thread "Patch Post #2 for the 2013/2014 Campaign"), USA M1A2 SEP V1 UNIT 318, M1A1HA+ UNIT 484, *MIA2 SEP V2 UNIT 517, and *M1A2 SEP V3".

C. All the Test and Assessment Posts can be found below.
“From the tests the average Kill RATIO stands at 3:1 win favoring the T-72B3M/B4. All the issues have already have been covered with the solutions to help counter the situation and acknowledged.
PG. 82 Posts 813/814/815 (Last Para) and 816.
PG. 83 Posts 824 and 830
PG. 84 Post 832.”

D.
To “my” testers, John (Imp), Aeraaa, zovs66 and jivemi. I THANK YOU!!

NOW TO BUSINESS...

From Page 84 Post 837 This was just one of those issues that just came up out of nowhere…
Well I have an issue I believe, I've sorted out, maybe. It concerns the Russian T-80 Series. One will be an "ADD" the other a "CHANGE" of the "START" as it's at least a year early. The issue is that the Russian T-80B/BV/U tanks received an upgrade. As the T-80BV is a real tank and is already in the game, I purpose that the upgraded tank be entered as the T-80BV1.

NOW THE ABOVE WILL BE LIMITED TO DATE CHANGES FOR THE FOLLOWING 3 TANKS AFTER DEEPER RESEARCH AND RE-READING THE ARMY REC. REFS. (THE WORDING WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING AT FIRST.) (An obvious EDIT "on the fly" at that time. 2/25/2020.)

CHANGE/RUSSIA/T-80B/UNIT 621/END DATE 12/1992 VICE 12/1985//
All T-80B tanks in service were upgraded to the T-80BV until production ceased on that tank in 1992. I cannot find any reference to the existence of the T-80B1/UNITS 622 & 676 as entered in the game of which I believe are redundant to the T-80B.

DELETE/RUSSIA/T-80B1/UNITS 622 & 676/CANNOT VERIFY THEY EXIST//
As noted above and as indicated by the refs shown and others in a deeper web search.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm

CHANGE/RUSSIA/T-80BV/UNIT 039/END DATE 12/2025 VICE 12/1992//

I can't seem to find anything to say these tanks are no longer in service. I fully understand a great many of them are in storage, but again the refs provided for this tank and others seem to indicate many are still operational and they are the platform from which the T-80BVM are derived from. View "Variants" section of ref. 1. Ref. 2 shows Russia still using them at bottom of ref. "Users" section.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._13007173.html

CHANGE/RUSSIA/T-80BVM/UNIT 046/START DATE 10/2018 VICE 06/2017//

Date based on following from ref. 1 "Russia’s T-80BV main battle tank has been upgraded to T-80BVM standard to feature the capability of firing depleted uranium shells, the Defense Ministry said in the bulletin ‘The Russian Army in Comparison’ published on 20 December." Also note last para from ref. 1 which addresses some of what I submitted above.
Ref. 2 production begins in March 2018.
Ref. 3 Dated 02 July 2018, identifies the first units to be equipped with the T-80BVM.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...um_shells.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/weap..._t-80_mbt.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/july...he_arctic.html


Others on the T-80...
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/T-80.php
http://id3486.securedata.net/fprado/armorsite/T-80U.htm

(For the above see production chart on first page.)

THE NEXT IS DONE.

From Page 85 Post 842
UKRAINE/OPLOT-M/UNIT 064/CHANGE/STEEL/HF 75 vice 72/HR 10 vice 8/TOP 10 vice 7/HEAT/110 vice 104/HS 45 vice 40/TR 20 vice 18/ERA/HF 20 vice 15/HS 18 vice 15/TF 20 vice 15/TS 18 vice 15/TOP 20 vice 15/STABILISER 6 vice 5//
My key tanks here where the T-84, OPLOT-M (T), T-90A, T-72B3M/B4, T-80BMV and STRV-122A. We know or should know the following by now, the T-90A is it's peer tank, the tank was RESET to the "-M" with the Hull strengthened and the Turret was newly built for this tank, ERA is better than the T-90A and the KBA3 MG has a first round hit probability tested to at least 94%. All this was born out in the evaluations during testing from the refs supplied in the posts and more as described above.

THAILAND/OPLOT-M/UNIT 019/CHANGE/NAME/OPLOT-T vice OPLOT-M/STABILISER 4 vice 3/STEEL-HEAT-ERA to match UKRAINE OPLOT-M UNIT 064 AS REVISED ABOVE// Though at the time, OPLOT-M was primarily used in referring to this tank, I'm assuming to avoid confusion. The refs. are using OPLOT-T now as has the THAI Army for some time now. The only difference between these tanks were a small handful of internal issues i.e. AC (Ukraine would add this feature to based on THAI feedback to theirs.) and other tropical related matters. I believe the lesser FCS related numbers are probably good assuming the Ukrainians didn't clear them (And they haven't. 2/25/2020.) to receive the full FCS to the level of their own "home" tanks. This is not an unusual practice in the arms trade. That being said, if it's decided to fully match the hopefully revised Ukrainian OPLOT-M then I see no real issue there either.
(This MBT is fine as already corrected. If I was to change one thing however, it might be to reduce VISION TI/GSR 45 vice 50 currently. I leave this to you to decide. 2/25/2020.)

From Page 85 Posts 844/845
USA/M1A2 SEP V3/UNIT 538/CHANGE/START DATE 06/2020 vice 10/2017/MBT IS CURRENTLY STILL IN FIELD/OP EVAL TESTING//
The date currently entered is when the first six production models came off the line. These would eventually (And more obviously.) and as the refs are showing, went to the USA units assigned to test it. The significance of the DID entry I pointed to makes sense as it indicated the first 45 of these tanks would be completed, I believe it was in March this year. You'll note the rest of the upgrade completion dates go beyond my "recommended" one above. The test and Prototypes would fill a unit by then or maybe a little earlier. I've already deleted all the refs. before I realized we had a problem here, so you'll have to use my last post and those refs supplied as a start point. Due note the latest is from the Army website as are 2 others.
https://www.army.mil/article/172984/...ound_at_a_time https://www.army.mil/article/214733/...proving_ground
https://www.army.mil/article/214733/...proving_ground


From Page 86 Posts 858/860 (Note: I have already edited the original data to reflect the correction made in Post 860* for the DELETION, to UNIT 649* vice UNIT 640. 2/24/2090.)

USA/CHANGE/RESET/M1A2 SEP/UNITS 316 & 647/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP MCRS/UNITS 653 & 654/ALL TO/START OCT 2008/END DEC 2025/TI/GSR 50 vice 40/FC 55 vice 50/STEEL HF 70 vice 65/HS 18 vice 12/HR 10 vice 9/HEAT TF 150 vice 147/TS 50 vice 48// Unlike the M1A1 FEP, the M1A2 SEP received a 3rd GEN armor upgrade this includes a D/U pkg. as well. I "threaded the needle" for FOC based on the conflicting data. However it should be noted it's NOT out of line based on what I posted concerning the M1A2 SEP V3 almost being 3 yrs. into its OPEVAL as we speak. Also the last order placed for the SEP was in mid/late 2005. That being said, I leaned a little more on the following from DID (Last Ref.) entries AUG 29/08 and JUN 20/05. Overall the SEP program to date must viewed as incremental improvements in all areas. And I really like the picture, things should be seen doing things.

USA/DELETE/M1A2 SEP V1/UNITS 318 & 649*/SAVE THE PICTURE WE HAVE LATE MODEL ABRAMS "FLOATING IN THE SKY" THAT CAN USE IT// For the reasons stated above and below within the Refs. I have seen Refs to indicate the M1A1 AIM being tagged with V1 and V2 attached to the name. Also M1A1 AIM were all REMANUFACTED tanks for the record.

USA/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP V2/M1A2 SEP 2-T/UNITS 517 & 537 RESPECTIVLY/FC 55 vice 50/BASED ON M1A2 SEP V3 FC 60/NOTE I MISSED UNIT 537 WHEN I SUBMITTED REVISED START FOR UNIT 517 (06/2020 I BELIEVE FROM POST 845) SHOULD MATCH// Again we see the progression more clearly now between the variants.
http://www.benning.army.mil/armor/eA...une1996web.pdf
(In 1996 the plan, pg. 11 and see Fig. 3 pg. 14.)
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...rmy/99m1a2.pdf
(In 2000 testing issues and failures experienced during and beyond 1999.)
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...amsM1A2SEP.pdf
https://asc.army.mil/docs/pubs/alt/2...est_200101.pdf

(2001 Another overview and analysis.)
(In 2002 testing continues with minor issues, progress being made.)
https://www.forecastinternational.co...DACH_RECNO=534
(2003 Commanders CITV. Cap. & Production Plan.)
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh/22.pdf
(2005 Conversion moves on it will be seen FOC not until Units are in "PROGRAM STATUS" are fully equipped.)
https://www.gd.com/news/press-releas...oved-sep-reset
(2006 Last of M1 tanks to be upgraded to SEP expect 2009 final delivery to units for FOC.)
http://id3486.securedata.net/fprado/...ite/abrams.htm
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...updated-02834/

(After a 3rd/4th time or more, I've got a little more clarity on the date issue (Above 2 Refs in particular.) and I believe the M1A2 SEP V1 as noted under the M1A2 SEP V2 section. I'm starting to think what really happened here with most not reporting this version while a SMALL handful do is the program (M1A2 SEP V1) started and went straight into the M1A2 SEP V2 program. It is the only thing that makes sense here.)

USA/CHANGE PICTURE/M1A2/UNIT 637/REPLACE WITH UNIT 318 PICTURE//I personally enjoyed that when Don let me get all those USN SKYHAWK pictures replaced mostly in Australia and Israel, F-105 for the Swiss. Also helos for Australia, Switzerland and all the countries that used the French SAR/SPEC OP helo we just updated a year or two ago with the missing MG's. That's almost relaxing compared to the rest!

From Page 85 Posts 852/857 (Only showing the submission from Post 857. This demonstrates HOW FAST things can change based on newer data. 2/24/2020.) Also note I have to use the M1A2 SEP V2 for balance against the next two tanks as well. I don't know what data was used for them, however, we had a lot of data to work from for the M1A2 SEP V2 when it was submitted and except for the date change I submitted for the M1A2 SEP V3 that tank looks good at present.

USMC/CHANGE/M1A1HC FEP VARIENTS/UNITS 467, 468 & 469/START 10/2009 vice 01/2008/TI/GSR 50 vice 45/STABILISER 7 vice 6/UNIT 468 MRAP 7 vice SURVIBILITY 6/SAME MBT AS UNITS 467 & 469// The FEP was a major upgrade to the M1A1 tanks the USMC operated. The contract was awarded on FEB 05, 2005 for the manufacture and installation of the subsystems making up the FEP package. The FOC was reached as submitted above. I cannot find any information to support any other date but, it should be noted however, I found enough to change the date when first submitted in Post 852 after digging deeper (Updated this last sentence for clarification. 2/25/2020), I will gladly in this instance "eat a little crow" concerning that last submission that "I didn't see it before 2010..." at least based on the data I had then.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a608067.pdf
(Pg. 6/Para B. Note they used JANE's 2013 ref.))
http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?item=156
(Para 4)
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...-(dec.-6).html
Paras 1 & 6)
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...1-tanks-01874/
(Covers both programs as of 2006.)
https://www.heritage.org/military-st...s-marine-corps
https://www.heritage.org/military-strength

(For context only. One of the very few "think tanks" that grade militaries and specifically are the only to do so for ours. The second will get you to the other branches.)
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/issues...ets-new-sight/
(This last ties in the FEP and SEP programs. And as normal USA first.)

From Page 87 Post 862 (My Pic) and Post 868 (Dons edit of my Pic. It’s a beautiful thing!)
USA/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP V2/UNITS 517 & 537/M1A1 AIM/UNIT 636/M1A1 SA/UNIT 886/DELETE CURRENT PICTURES/REPLACE WITH PICTURE AS SUBMITTED BELOW//

REALITY:
From changes for the ABRAMS SEP and looking at the refs, I ended Post 858 with:
“A final note did anyone notice a pattern with the Refs? Just from what I posted, it was 12 yrs. for SEP to get into the field. Not bad when you consider ARJUN Mk I took over 30yrs. to get there! These things take time!

This is why I’m pessimistically, optimistic about equipment dates!!

I don’t think I missed anything for the MBT’S for the 2018 – 2019 Campaign put back here where they should've started from in the first place.

Don and I have already addressed for the 2019 - 2020 Campaign the following MBT issues...
Posts 235 – 238 this Thread, covers South Korean K2 PIP (START Chg.).
T-80ROK UNIT 029 and BMP-3ROK UNIT 061 both retired last year, I believe we settled on END DEC 2019.
.
K2 UNIT 032 got a very INTERESTING ammo change.

Also Ukraine to get an improved T-64 BULAT 17

And finally I also submitted changes to the ARJUN Mk-1A for India (Now there's a surprise!!).

All DONE already by Don these last three and I think most from higher above.

Those will be grouped together and submitted to the MBT Thread at a later date.

Didn't feel like going back to work today, when a 4 day work week was a better option.

I'm done with MBT's! For now.

Time to not waste the rest of this "gift" of being home with you know whom!

Regards,
Pat
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  #246  
Old February 25th, 2020, 05:45 PM
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Exclamation Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Pat.

If you have already posted info and I have marked it with "Thanks" DO NOT post it again please --- that "Thanks" means I have dealt with it in the OOB already I just creates confusion and gives me more aggravation to deal with that I don't want or need. The entire M1A2 SEP issue was dealt with ages ago and the only way I can check this is to go back and compare the last release OOB with the new one and it's a PITA. I have NO IDEA if you have altered any details without going through it all again......at this stage I do not want NOR should I need to go back and do something all again and neither do you.....ONCE is enough and this post is IT for this release
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  #247  
Old February 25th, 2020, 09:09 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Well to be honest I missed your last post. After dinner I decided to use this as I always had in the past prior to 2018/2019 as a check on what I submitted through this thread first. I just completed that check before reading your last post. This was no fun for me either going through as it would turn out, about 35 pages of posts in the MBT Thread to get Parts 1 - 3 finished in here.

So here's the "wash out" from Part 3 "bounced" against the OOB's, again all were spaced apart in the MBT Thread and not as it appears now...
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80B/UNIT 061/END/DEC 1992 vice DEC 1985//
First one listed for Russia I believe.

THAILAND/CHANGE/OPLOT-T/UNIT 019/TI/GSR 45 vice 50//
Under UKRAINE entry.
This was an after thought in the last sentence as submitted in Part 3. I now feel it's the right thing to do given the reductions elsewhere to the FCS of that MBT.

USA/DELETE/M1A2C/FORMALLY M1A2 SEP V3/UNIT 537/REDUNDANT TO UNIT 538//
The FCS numbers don't match to UNIT 538. I stopped there.

USA/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP V3-T/UNIT 538/NAME/M1A2C vice M1A2 SEP V3-T/START/JUN 2020 vice OCT 2017/END/DEC 2025 vice DEC 2020//
Everything else appears to be correct.

About my M1A2 FEP entry you can add UNIT 463. None of the FEP tanks should START before 10/2009 with exception of the ones that came in 2016 as I see they got a new main gun. That's why I ended up changing the date twice to get that final one because I had definitive data to support that second change.

I'm leaving it there. Everything else in Part 3 was good. This again in why I culled all this information. As I noted from the start of this, these are my checks and balances. Part 3 took me less than 10 minutes to reverify the data.

Would've posted this much sooner but, the Son and his family stopped by.

Regards,
Pat
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Old February 26th, 2020, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH View Post



USA/DELETE/M1A2C/FORMALLY M1A2 SEP V3/UNIT 537/REDUNDANT TO UNIT 538//
The FCS numbers don't match to UNIT 538. I stopped there.

USA/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP V3-T/UNIT 538/NAME/M1A2C vice M1A2 SEP V3-T/START/JUN 2020 vice OCT 2017/END/DEC 2025 vice DEC 2020//
Everything else appears to be correct.
This is the way the OOB has been set up for weeks for USA 537 .....


.......and 538



538 is the trials version and 537 is the deployment version. If you REALLY feel 538 is inappropriate I can remove it
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  #249  
Old February 26th, 2020, 01:13 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Don,
Wasn't aware you used "trial" version tanks in the game.

Alright you've already put the work into this, so I feel that unless you think the "slot" will be needed sooner then later, keep it in.

I'm thinking now, depending on how fast the USA deploys TROPHY, it would make sense to have a M1A2C (SEP 3) (UNIT 538) w/o it onboard.

And let there be no doubts for the "viewing audience" out here, the USA has already determined that this tank will be the first to deploy TROPHY.

New ammo might also "drive" the above in keeping UNIT 538 viable as well.

That'll give the player and AI an option on that tanks deployment in the game.

When it does get to FOC, a simple date change to UNIT 538 and maybe we find a new picture of one kicking up some mud!!!

We have plenty of options here. So again keep it.

I appreciate the feedback.

Time for lunch and back to work.

Regards,
Pat
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Old February 26th, 2020, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Fine...... there is now a Sep V3 unit without Trophy and a M1A2C-T that does
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