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  #1  
Old August 21st, 2014, 11:39 AM
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Default 10.5cm K gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette IVa (Dicker Max)

If anyone has a copy of Jenz that covers this vehicle I need the following info

Speed ?.. I've seen 27 km/h and I've seen 40 km/h and I've seen 27 km/h cross country with 40 km road

Penetration data for the gun. I have 132mm of vertical armour at 2000m which translates to 16 in game terms for AP ammo


Ammo carried ? I've seen " 20-25" and 26

Don
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Old August 23rd, 2014, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: 10.5cm K gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette IVa (Dicker Max)

From "PANZER TRACTS No.7-1" page7-45:

Maximum Speed: 27km/hr;
(it is not mentioned if on or off-road, but in the text it is described how the speed was decreased every other design meeting so on 29.May 1939 to 40km/hr due to tracks, in August to 35km/hr, in October 1939 from 35 to 25km/hr due to weak engine and gear ratio in SSG46 transmission and finally on 04. Nov 1939 to 27km/hr again with the SSG46 transmission)

Ammunition: 26 - 10.5cm Pzgr & Sprgr.

Hope that helps, if you need scan let me know

best regards
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Old September 1st, 2014, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: 10.5cm K gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette IVa (Dicker Max)

"Encyclopedia of German tanks..." article for the vehicle has 132mm vs 0 degrees and 111mm vs 30 degrees at 2000 meters. Ammo not specified. Appendix in the same book has similar figures for the same gun - the 10,5cm K18. All 30 degrees with PzGr Rot (ABCBC according to Hogg)

100m - 164mm
500m - 149mm
1000m - 133mm
1500m - 119mm
2000m - 109mm

With 164mm at 100m and 30 degrees, I would think that 0 degree penetrations would be more like 190-200mm point blank?
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Old July 14th, 2017, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: 10.5cm K gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette IVa (Dicker Max)

Anyone here know how to calculate the difference between armour penetration values at 30 degrees and at 0 degrees? There has to be a formula for this sort of thing, right?

I'm assuming that the armour penetrated is at an angle of 0 degrees in the basic MBT/WW2 calculation, which I am also assuming means we are talking about a "flat" or vertical armour plate.

I'm kind of a novice when it comes to calculating all of this stuff.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: 10.5cm K gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette IVa (Dicker Max)

Have you tried our ArmourCalc.exe ? It's been in the main game directory for over a decade. Enter the armour and the angle and press " Calculate" be careful about reading results...."0" degrees and 90 are one in the same....both indicate a flat plate straight on in some penetration date descriptions but for ArmourCalc 0 is a flat plate

That isn't quite what you wanted but it can be used to compare data you may have...100mm of armour @ 30 degrees = 115mm
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Old July 14th, 2017, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: 10.5cm K gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette IVa (Dicker Max)

Quote:
Have you tried our ArmourCalc.exe
No, although I was aware of it. I knew it was used to calculate sloped armour into a flat rh steel value.

Quote:
Enter the armour and the angle and press " Calculate" be careful about reading results...."0" degrees and 90 are one in the same....both indicate a flat plate straight on in some penetration date descriptions but for ArmourCalc 0 is a flat plate

That isn't quite what you wanted but it can be used to compare data you may have...100mm of armour @ 30 degrees = 115mm
I think I understand what you mean by this. Let me run it by you though just to make sure.

I have penetration results at a distance of 460 metres (500 yards) for one type of shell fired from a 90mm gun of 5.2 inches (132mm) @ an oblique angle of 30 degrees. I take that value and run it through ArmourCalc at 30 that should give me the value I'm looking for when dealing with regular flat plate.

That is so simple. It's genius!

At 900 metres (1000 yards) we are looking at 147mm @ 90 degrees (127mm @ 30), which is around 15 in game terms.

A maximum value of 17 just about gets us there (15 at 450 metres and 14 at 900 metres). I think 18 would be a stretch.

Now I've had a look around - on WarThunder for instance - and they have pretty different numbers. At 200 metres a number of 20 in MBT terms. Are their numbers "serious"? Or should I just ignore them?
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Old July 14th, 2017, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: 10.5cm K gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette IVa (Dicker Max)

What you probably need to do is find a known reliable source that gives 0 and 30-degree pen results for anything similar and then use that as a guide..if it gives 130 pen at 30-degree slope but 135 at zero then you have a "good enough" approximation. ArmourCalc just gives you a good idea of what the horizontal differences is for a piece of armour at a set thickness but there are so many factors interconnected for a projective penetrating armour plate you only ever will be " close enough"

I would say for your example that penetration for that guns shell on a flat 0-degree plate would be slightly more than what it is for 30-degree but it's not going to be wildly different.

I have no opinion one way or the other on stats from other games mainly because I have never looked at them or compared them to "official" sources
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