OOBs way out of whack?

[PatG]

OK then 2 different questions.
I don't much care about the body count as long as the end result comes out right. Can you tell I like to play as Russian and Japanese?

[Marek_Tucan]

Deputy said:
#1 First of all, the .30/06 caliber cartridge of the Garand and the 8MM cartridge of the 98K have VERY similar ballistic numbers. So one cartridge is not superior to the other at the ranges thay are used at. Both kill at equal effectiveness.

Difference in stats between weapons doesn't depend just on caliber and round used.

#2. While the Garand does have more ammunition capacity 8 rounds compared to 5, there is a tendency among shooters to fire those rounds off without taking good aim at their targets. The user of the 98K tends to make the most out of HITTING his target, since he has fewer rounds and it is slower to shoot those rounds.

This opinion was being held by militaries when breech loaders came instead of muzzleloaders. Proven false (actually it was true breech loader toting soldiers fired more rapidly, but also with more time being devoted to aiming instead of loading). Then when repeater rifles came instead of single-shot breech loaders. Proven false. Then when self-loading rifles came. Proven false. Then when autofire-capable rifles came. Proven false.
In fact, Garand compared to Kar (or any other repeater) allows for significantly quicker re-engaging of target as you don't have to put the weapon off balance by moving hand back and operating the mechanism.
Anyway, curious why Germans or Soviets took the efforts to field SLR and later AR if it was all the same.

Plus a skilled 98K shooter CAN fire off those rounds quickly and accurately.

Did you notice that with rising experience in the game, the troops are a) more likely to hit and b) able to fire off more salvoes per turn? But if anything, this would speak contrary to upping kar as, as you wrote, skilled shooter can pull it off. However your regular conscripts most likely not, whereas they are able to get higher ROF from a SLR.

Consider Lee Harvey Oswald shooting Kennedy. He fired at a MOVING target in a vehicle where all he could see of the target was the head to the shoulders. Yet he managed to operate a beat up old Italian Mannlicher-Carcano bolt action rifle and hit Kennedy with 3 shots.

So... I assume Carcano should get kill of 2 as well? By the way also notice LHO was hardly your regular shooter. Also his target was pretty close and not too fast.

#3 The Mauser action is probably the strongest, most effective bolt action system of any bolt action rifle. It is still being used today by many countries as the basis for their sniper rifles.

As is Enfield. Enfield system was also found to be quicker than Mauser, with skilled shooter able to reach (in practice firing, all with reloading) 40 shots per minute. Aimed, that is. This is comparable with what is being considered to be regular RoF for SLR. However, the problem is... That is skilled soldier. In-game, you can use formation with experience bonus. However expecting such a feat from your ordinary Tommy Atkins (or Hans Otto) is reaching.

#4 All bolt action rifles are not the same just like all machineguns or semi-auto rifles are not the same. That's just the way it is. The British Enfield rifle has a much "faster" action (it cocks on CLOSING the bolt) and holds 10 shots. I think that rifle is under-rated in the game too.

Are the differences big enough to earn some bolt actions 200% HE kill over others? And bear in mind that the "primary weapon" is in-game treated like being fired by the entire squad. With 10 riflemen, you have a difference of "total" HE kill of 10 vs. total HEK of 20. Talk about overrated units...
If you mind so much the edge of SLR's (deserved IMO, but OK, that's the matter of discussion), more sensible would be to bring the SLR's down to bolt action level, IE give them HEK of 1 and simulate their edge over bolt actions say by higher accuracy.

[Deputy]

PatG said:
OK then 2 different questions.
I don't much care about the body count as long as the end result comes out right. Can you tell I like to play as Russian and Japanese?

LOL...two nationalities I NEVER play.

I've been informed from a reliable source that WinSPWW2 is much more "kinder" to, and makes it hard to hit Infantry.
I guess I should like that, since I was an 11B. But I am used to seeing things like flak guns tear the heck out of Infantry. Hard to hide from all that airborne shrapnel.

Dep

[Deputy]

Marek_Tucan said:

If you mind so much the edge of SLR's (deserved IMO, but OK, that's the matter of discussion), more sensible would be to bring the SLR's down to bolt action level, IE give them HEK of 1 and simulate their edge over bolt actions say by higher accuracy.

I may just try that.