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  #801  
Old June 12th, 2018, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

now entered......
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  #802  
Old November 5th, 2018, 09:58 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Well like I said back in early June, trying to keep up on tracking these issues and I see it's been quite here for a while when there's so much happening in this area. So consider this FYI with some minor changes for some starting with the first entry. I will not due to time issues be able to finish this tonight. Consider this Part I. I will do this alpha by country. As a reminder an "ADD" is assumed with End Date DEC 2025 unless otherwise noted. Also what might be requested again are minor issues so, the refs submitted represent a "composite" taken from other refs. If this was a new piece of gear I would as always "bombard" Don as the record has shown with many more refs.

1. I don't remember if ECM devices contribute to EW ratings for tanks. I would think some minor adjustment would be made only for the fact if so equipped they tend to tie into the countermeasures on board in timing the proper launch protocols for the inbound threat. So I'm going with that for now...

A1. ALGERIA/ADD/JUN 2018/T-90SA/COPY UNIT 027/WITH SHTORA-1//
Article is from May, it's indicating system is already installed on some tanks. June seems like a safe month, however, if you wish to be more conservative then I recommend NLT OCT.

C1. ALGERIA/CHANGE/UNIT 027/T-90S/TORD T-90SA//
All Algerian T-90S (Standard export version.) were modified somewhat for desert warfare to include, I know, AC (But remember folks AC isn't for the crew but for the electronics.) and therefore designated T-90SA.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2..._53005161.html


FYI HEADLINE/AUSTRILIA/MIA1 TO BE UPGRADED TO THE MIA2 LEVEL/HAVE ALREADY SEEN ARITICLES TO INDICATE THEY WILL ALSO GET TROPHY INSTALLED/TRACKING/GUESS/SHOULD HAVE ENOUGH UNITS UPGRADED AND IN THE FIELD BY OCT 2022//
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...s_planned.html



With 5 minutes to spare I leave you to spend time with CINCLANTHOME.


Regards,
Pat
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  #803  
Old November 11th, 2018, 06:41 AM

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Default Re: MBT's

https://defence-blog.com/army/turkis...FLurs6VxCE44s8
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  #804  
Old November 11th, 2018, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

OK 18 months from now is the new start date ( May 2020 )....this is the third or fourth revision for that tank IIRC. The first hint that this tank was under development was in winspmbtV4 ( 2008 ) and the start date then was set for 2016.
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  #805  
Old November 11th, 2018, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
OK 18 months from now is the new start date ( May 2020 )....this is the third or fourth revision for that tank IIRC. The first hint that this tank was under development was in winspmbtV4 ( 2008 ) and the start date then was set for 2016.
And the first plan was a grand one for 1000+ Altays. Turks are even worse than Russians in setting realistic goals.
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  #806  
Old November 12th, 2018, 10:59 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Unintended PART II...

Well I'll take some responsibility for not having suggested a new date myself, however, I needed more data which didn't become available until after mine and CINCLANTHOME had to get and take over the planning of my last boats 25th Ann.

A brief I promise, history...I can't even remember when I first submitted a change to this tank (I don't believe I submitted it w/o checking hard copies.) in the very beginning. This MBT (And OOB which Don and I worked on together last year or year before and fixed-we hope.) along with a couple of others have been a real PITA!! Once the Germans and Austria (Engines) got involved after the South Koreas stepped seemed to have a good relationship with Turkey. They experienced some technical (All) as well as financial issues (Turkey) which I believe caused the first date change. The second and third were caused by Germany first, then Austria next to pull out due to human rights issues and the purge after the attempted coup. Germany was thinking about getting back in the game but backed off after Turkey invaded part of Syria and started operations of a limited scale against the Kurds.

The real "Big Hurt" was two fold Austria not supplying the engine and the Government pressing OAKAR to come off the coat per unit for the ALTAY. This was difficult for OAKAR to do as they developed the tank and bore the cost to do so.

The result has been an almost two year delay in rebidding the contract between three of Turkeys largest defense contractors to build it and develop a home grown 1500hp they've never attempted before. The contract issues have just been completed this summer I believe in June.

To one extent or another this is all covered in my refs. below and selected posts I'm supplying. To be sure, there are many more Posts before those selected concerning the ALTAY (May it, the ARJUN and ARMATA "RIP" someday!)

The date submitted is from the time frame of the original contract
as will be shown in quotations below.


Based on the information I'm submitting I don't see that MBT in service until JUN 2021. Most of the operational testing regarding the engine and most importantly the ability of it to act as a functioning Power Pack is out the window. The prototypes are all using the Austrian and German Power Packs-they now and they can't legally copy them (Germany and Austria have not given licensing to do so.) and if they do copy them you can forget seeing them in this game as they just might be tied up in court that long.

And finally if my date is wrong and it's sooner than later, well, good for the game and won't it be nice to change a date to the left for a change!?! Glass half full kind've guy really!?!

POSTS See TURKEY: #783 FEB 20th and #792 MAR 12th 2018.

And...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...ttle_tank.html

"Previously, in the 2017-2021 Strategic Plan published by the SSM, the primary date for the first Altay Main Battle Tank entering service was set for 2020. According to the plan, the first 15 tanks will be put into service in 2020, while 20 tanks will be delivered in 2021."

http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...nked_soon.html

"According to Turkish defense industry sources, the mass production of the Altay MBT could started in late 2019 or early 2020." The rest of para 2 reads as the above quote does.


Didn't want to get "out of order" but felt I had to as much of my time as well as Don's has gone into all things Turkey!!


Regards,
Pat
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  #807  
Old November 13th, 2018, 02:36 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

This acts as a supplement to the previous Post.
And just that fast, we get the following...
Contract signed at the end of last week for 250 ALTAY MBT's. First 40 will be produced followed by the rest with no time frame given. This is the same pattern when OTOKAR (Spelled right this time.) had the original contract. The first batch were the "test beds".
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove...ltay_mbts.html

That's what I get for reading the "papers" so late.

Regards,
Pat
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