Question: Few easy questions

[-Luc-]

Hi,

I'm (CCCP) fighting my father (Canada) in 1958 and I compare our tanks...

Vision: Centurion MK5 0 vs T-55 20
Stabiliser: Centurion MK5 1 vs T-55 2
Fire Control: Centurion MK5 15 vs T-55 5
Range Finder: Centurion MK5 6 vs T-55 6

I'm not sure I well understand these numbers...

Stabiliser help when you are on the move... right?
Fire Control everytime... right?
Range Finder... it help when the enemy is near (under 6 hexes)?

How it work?

Oh yeah... I did some test and I think the T-55 better...

Thank you!

-Luc-

[Judicator65]

I think some things may have changed from what I used to remember, but the numbers work something like this:

Vision - This is the minimum number of hexes you can see, regardless of weather conditions. So, for your 2 tanks, even if it's night, and visibility is, say, 10, your T-55s could still see 20 hexes away, while the Centurion could only see 10 hexes (depending on terrain and smoke, of course). As the manual says, vision of 40 or more can see through smoke as well.

Stabiliser - I think this used to be the number of hexes you could move before your accuracy started to suffer, or maybe the number of hexes you could move before your accuracy dropped a step, but either way, it's a measure of how quickly your accuracy drops off as you move. Higher is better, again.

Fire Control - This increases your accuracy, especially at longer ranges. Per the manual, this especially helps with moving targets. A long time ago, I think the formula for how FC helped was 5 times the FC value was added to your chance to hit, but I don't know how they might have changed the formula since.

Range Finger - Like Fire Control, this helps increase accuracy at range. They say a range finder of 14 or up is a laser rangefinder.

So, basically, the tanks work well in different situations; the Centurion works better firing from fixed, stationary positions at moving targets, while the T-55 is a bit better at firing while moving and assaulting, which matches the battle philosophies of both sides.

[scJazz]

The MOBHack guide located in the Mobhack folder is very useful for exploring things like this. I was about to answer but Jud already did. Still quoting the guide...

Fire Control - This affects accuracy, especially against moving targets. Values over 99 are fire control radars, with 101 being better than 100. Field changes colour if AAA radar is issued. AAA radar is only worthwhile for AA units, obviously - SP SAM, AA guns, SP AA guns. SEAD aircraft seek out units with active AAA radar - there is no EMCON in SP. Anti-radar missiles may destroy the radar, if not the firer. (As a reference point, 5 was used as a maximum in WW2 data - e.g. king Tiger )

Range Finder - This makes hitting targets easier, especially for firers who did not move. 20 is the level for laser range finders, use 6 for the ranging coaxial rifle calibre MG as used in UK tanks, or 8 for a ranging .50 MG as used in Chieftains. Use around 6 to 10 for optical range finders as in the M48/M60/Leo 1. values under 5 tend to be used for WW2 type tank sights. For reference - 4 was generally the max value in SP 1 (e.g. panthers) barring some specials (e.g. 8 for the Nashorn, which used a stereo optical range finder of artillery observer type).

Stabiliser - this allows the unit to move and still keep a fire control solution (target lock) on its current target (if any) - and reduces the effects of own firer movement. Larger is better. Units with high FC and RF can engage slow moving helos with AP shot. (Almost anyone in range can shoot at hovering helos).

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by -Luc-

Hi,

I'm (CCCP) fighting my father (Canada) in 1958 and I compare our tanks...

Vision: Centurion MK5 0 vs T-55 20
Stabiliser: Centurion MK5 1 vs T-55 2
Fire Control: Centurion MK5 15 vs T-55 5
Range Finder: Centurion MK5 6 vs T-55 6

I'm not sure I well understand these numbers...

Stabiliser help when you are on the move... right?
Fire Control everytime... right?
Range Finder... it help when the enemy is near (under 6 hexes)?

How it work?

Oh yeah... I did some test and I think the T-55 better...

Thank you!

-Luc-

The numbers are already explained by others.

The main advantage the T55 has at this particular time are:
a) vision of 20 (IR night fighting) - only worthwhile if map vision is < 20
b) While they last, and if the fuse works, they have 5-8 HEAT rounds which can deal with the up-armoured centurions at any range
c) Speed.

The centurion has better front armour (somewhat negated by the 100mm HEAT). The 20 pounder gun is reliable against the 19 front glacis only to about 950 metres using APDS, 1200 at a pinch. (load MBT_APCalc, load Canada, select weapon 91). Rely on the reliable figures, not the "best" result.

The centurion therefore has to get range down to 900-950 yards frontally or manoeuvre for side shots. Unfortunately, it is slower than T55. But primarily it has to bleed off the 100mm HEAT ammo (e.g. by encouraging long range fires, or perhaps showing the T55s some scout cars for a few moves before the cents trundle into range).

1958 is just when the 20 pounder centurions get a bit iffy - before that against the T54 models then you at least have no HEAT or only a few (3-4) as "golden BBs" to worry about. In 1965 then the 105mm L7 model arrives and the T55s are pretty much targets unless they land a lucky HEAT shot on the centurion. But by then, T62 is coming along.

Soviet T55 player should use his speed differential to dictate the engagement distances (and angles), and keep a close watch on his remaining HEAT ammo because if he has none left then he is restricted to trying lucky shots at 500m or less, or having to go for side shots as well. Long range sniping (e.g. from a dominating hilltop) will work versus centurions here, if say he has backed up his tank company with some ammo carriers to top up HEAT.

HEAT (and to a lesser degree speed) is the only Soviet advantage between the 2 tanks if it is not night time. If reduced to a kinetic-only duel then the 20pr centurions have a range advantage in a frontal duel against the up-armoured cents, any older ones with the original package (Mk3 say) are likely toast.

At night, the T55 is likely to own the centurions of the era however. 20 vision versus nil.

Cheers
Andy

(NB - in this era of the UK 20 pdr and the US 90mm, NATO armies were rather interested in the 106mm RCL jeep, or UK 120mm etc for some strange reason. Anyone using 20pr cents or 90mm Pattons should always invest in a few of those till the 105mm arrives and use as nippy ambush tank destroyers.)

[Aeraaa]

Generally speaking Centurion is a LOT worse tank until the 105mm version comes along. 20pdr is just too weak to do any real damage against Soviet armor. Try scenario #235, the river of steel to see what I mean. You'll feel like you are in a Cold war sherman vs Panthers and tigers here (T55s and IS-4s filling their roles respectively). Thank god for Energa grenades, otherwise I'd be toast (and thank for AI stupidity, since no sane human player would charge all his armor at an infantry infested town...)

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by -Luc-

Vision: Centurion MK5 0 vs T-55 20
Stabiliser: Centurion MK5 1 vs T-55 2
Fire Control: Centurion MK5 15 vs T-55 5
Range Finder: Centurion MK5 6 vs T-55 6

Look at your strengths and weaknesses.

The T-55 has better Vision ... but that's only relivent if the scenario visibility is 1 to 20.

The T-55 has a slightly better Stabilizer ... so they have a slightly better chance to hit if they fire on the move.

The Centurion has much better Fire Control ... so theey have a batter chance to hit at range and vs moving targets.

They are tied for Range Finder.

Given the Centurions' 20# vs the T-55s' 100mm use the range advantage to "make" the T-55s "waste" their HEAT ammo making long range shots at a fast moving or well emplaced target.
Try to place some of the Centurions where they can get flank shots as the T-55s close on their objective.
Maybe allow the T-55s to reach their objective while you maneuver for longer range/flank shots, you can recapture the objective after the T-55s are delt with.

[-Luc-]

Hi,

I have a question about mine plough.

I'm playing the soviet side in 1970 and for the first time I have more than one tank with a mine plough.

T-54A (PT-54) 131$
T-62 (KMT-4) 149$
T-62 (KMT-5) 160$

I understand that T-62 is using two different systems.

The price is different but what about their effective?

I did some test and I saw no difference.

Thank you!
-Luc-

[Mobhack]

All mine ploughs have the same clearing effect and cost the same. Names are merely cosmetic.

Therefore the 2 T-62s are different in some respect, such as speed, armour, ammo, gun, tange-finder or vision gear etc. Check out the stats to see what differs between the 2.

[DRG]

In the case of the T-62 the difference in cost there is because the KMT-5 apparatus is larger and more substantial it gives a greater boost to the front hull armour ratings which increases the cost

[-Luc-]

Hi,

Originally Posted by DRG

In the case of the T-62 the difference in cost there is because the KMT-5 apparatus is larger and more substantial it gives a greater boost to the front hull armour ratings which increases the cost

After few observations and experiments, it was my conclusion too.

Another question... why do we have that gap between T-54 and T-62. Dont we need a T-55 mineclearer?

Here few infos about these systems:
http://www.jedsite.info/engineer-kil...mt-series.html
http://www.jedsite.info/engineer-pap...pt-series.html

Thank you!
-Luc-