IDF OOB project. - Page 10

gingertanker · #91 November 30th, 2018, 03:04 AM

Air Defense

This post was sourced using the IAF website and IAF Air Defense School website.

A recorded kill for the Chaparral on the 6th of May 74. This is the first recorded kill by the system world wide and also means we must change the start date to early 74. Also Unit 100 is named M730 while 101 is named M48A3. We either go with 730 or M48. In the USA OOB it is M48.

Unit 101 unless I am missing something is there to represent the Block 6 systems exported to Israel in early 1999. The difference in game seems to be better EW and vision. The weapon is identical(and should probably be renamed MIM-72). However in 1993 the IDF made upgrades to its Chaparrals, installing the "Aramit" system which improved the RADAR display and "improved target acquisition"...

I suggest-
To represent the original Chaparral from 1974 until IDF upgrade
Unit 100: change name to "M48 Drakon" change start date to 1/74. End date to 12/93. Copy Stats from USA OOB unit 049, as currently this units is better than it's US counterpart which makes 0 sense.

To represent the IDF upgrade in 1993:
Unit 101: change Name to M48M Drakon . change start date to 1/93. Give it the EW and vision stats currently in unit 100.

To represent the systems imported in 1999:
Create a new unit copying the stats from USA unit 207, and name it M48A1 Drakon. Start date 1/99.

All of these can use the current icon 2223 so at least no modeling work!

gingertanker · #92 November 30th, 2018, 05:12 AM

Unit 112: I can not source it but as mentioned in hebrew wikipedia and as AFAIK the HAWK was retired in 2014 to allow budgeting David's Sling/Magic Wand. To be conservative David's Sling became operational in 2/2016.

I suggest adding David's Sling to the OOB in the following manner:

Unit 112 : change end date to 12/16

Create a new weapon: "Stunner SAM" as for stats I am not sure because frankly I do not know how every stat works. But:
Range should be maxed out.
Minimum range should be quite short.
The warhead is not an explosive one but very fast and meant to kill targets by directly hitting them with KE. So it should probably have high HE pen and low HE kill?

After the weapon is sorted out -
Creat a new unit "David's Sling". Start date 2/16 end date 12/25. General stats should probably be similar to Unit 112 but with better radar (because it has both a more advanced radar and an electro optic system). In slot 1 weapon should be the one we just created "Stunner SAM". HE ammo should be 12.

For an icon reference:

https://www.idf.il/media/8681/3.jpg

https://www.idf.il/media/8680/2.jpg

gingertanker · #93 November 30th, 2018, 06:41 AM

Unit 114 "Ha'Poretz" - do we know where the name came from? It translates to "The Breakthrough(er)". This seems like it was a name of a specific Sandwich with dozer blade. If so I would suggest - Change Unit 114 name to "Sandwich Dozer"

Units 117 and 123 should match the latest reserve Sh'ots in the OOB.
Unit 117 change end date 12/02
Unit 123 change end date 12/202

Unit 118 "Tiran Dozer" - I suggest change end date of Unit 118 to 12/89 to match the latest Tiran 5 date in the OOB.

Unit 124: as we don't have a reserve unit for the 90mm Mag'ach, I think we can change the end date to match unit 020. so Unit 124: change end date 12/69.

Unit 125 "M60 Mine Plough". The only Patton not renamed to Mag'ach in the OOB. Change unit 125 name to "Mag'ach Mine Plough".

Units 127-129 are Mine Roller variants of Merkavas. However dates and stats are mismatched with the MBT and Reserve Tank units. To fix this as much as possible I suggest:

Unit 127 Merkava 1 MR : Change start date 9/79 end date to 12/14.Match all stats to unit 057

Unit 128 Merkava 2 MR : Change start date 1/84 end date to 12/20.Match all states to unit 058.
You may notice this is past the latest Mk 2 in the OOB, but my old unit STILL runs them, so we must extend that date forward to reflect they were not removed!
So as a side note:
Unit 631 Merkava 2b: change name to Merkava 2B and change end date 12/20.
Unit 622 Merkava 2b: change name to Merkava 2B

Unit 129 Merkava Mk 3 MR : Change start date to 05/90. Match stats for unit 062 or 063

DRG · #94 November 30th, 2018, 06:52 AM

Done.

side note "Mag'ach Mine Plough" will not fit the allowed number of characters.......but "Mag'ach Plough" will

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #95 November 30th, 2018, 07:35 AM

Amit,
I'm finding that the "STUNNER SAM" is more like what "AEGIS" is to the USN...simply put, a missile killer. It's designed to shoot down short range (i.e. Iranian SCUD), Ballistic (i.e. Russia's latest MSN system) and cruise missiles.
This ref. I deem pretty reliable based on source and some might recognize some refs. I've used over the years that have been more then reliable as listed on the bottom of the ref. below.
http://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/mi...-sling-israel/
https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/irondome

It should be noted this missile represents only 1/3 of the missile capability of the IRON DOME System.

I'm thinking this might be the wrong missile for the game?

Now "DAVIDS SLING" is the one we want and represents another 1/3 of the "ID" system, were the "STUNNER SAM" is the long range missile killer, "DAVIDS SLING" is the Medium Rng. missile killer that's also designed to take down very accurately, aircraft as well.
https://www.raytheon.com/capabilitie...ts/davidssling

Getting short cycled to end my work week to a "normal" so for to...well you should know by now!

Regards,
Pat

gingertanker · #96 November 30th, 2018, 08:02 AM

I was under the impression there is only one missile for the David Sling system and the English name for it is Stunner. It really is more a matter of naming as long as in game it works as we want it to represent David's Sling medium range AA ability. Name the missile itself whatever.

DRG · #97 November 30th, 2018, 08:06 AM

Yeah BUT Pat...... that link says........"David's Sling's maneuverable, two-stage, hit-to-kill Stunner missile destroys threats through sheer force of impact."

so the initial post is correct --David's Sling uses the Stunner missile

and another source says it will replace the Patriot..but doesn't say when

gingertanker · #98 November 30th, 2018, 11:44 AM

Light AT units:

On the 21st of October 1973 during operation Magbit 16, S-13 operators already used M72 LAW launchers to attack Egyptian missile boats.
This confirms the LAW was delivered during the Yom Kippur war.
I suggest either
Unit 132 : Change start date to 10/73
Or making some sort of SF unit that brings the LAW into play from 10/73 till the currently in OOB 1/75 start date. Further down I will explain why this may possibly be relevant to the Shipon team, Unit 138.

Going from this unit 133 AT4/M136. I simply can not find a source for this ever being in the IDF. I found one picture of an IDF soldier posing with it, but he was training with US troops and just posed.
Possibly remove unit 133?

Unit 137 RPG-7 Team : Change end date to 1/08. this is conservative. Only in late 2007 did the IDF release that it is retiring the RPG-7, and I am not even sure it fully happened by 01/08 but let's be optimistic. This is also going to be important down the line for infantry units...

Unit 138 Shipon is quite a challenge. The Shipon is indeed around from 2000 or 2003, depending who you ask...But it's not serving like the LAW or RPG-7. It is fielded by special forces. It's use in the OOB as a Inf-AT unit is problematic. Is there some solution you can think of? It is also worth mentioning that the weapon itself (Weapon 19) has weird stats. For one thing Shipon is a tandem warhead rocket but it is not classed like that. Also it's accuracy is identical to the RPG-7 in the Israeli OOB, but really it should be far higher. The SMAW in the US OOB is based on the B-300 like the Shipon, and is a cousin of Shipon. It has 10 accuracy in game while Shipon has 5...Shipon, it is worth noting, has a LRF and digital FCS...
I am not suggesting anything just sharing the info waiting for replies.

DRG · #99 November 30th, 2018, 08:13 PM

I'll look into the Shipon issue at some point. I have a note to do so

Note what wiki says........."various reports stated in error that it was an Israeli improved and manufactured version of the Russian RPG-7."

that would explain why it had the same rating as the RPG

The range we have is also too great so this thing probably should be integrated into a Sayeret Section and not be an AT team

gingertanker · #**100** November 30th, 2018, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

I'll look into the Shipon issue at some point. I have a note to do so

Note what wiki says........."various reports stated in error that it was an Israeli improved and manufactured version of the Russian RPG-7."

that would explain why it had the same rating as the RPG

The range we have is also too great so this thing probably should be integrated into a Sayeret Section and not be an AT team

That would probably be best. In that case I would suggest doing the same with pre 01/75 LAW.

More to come soon. I think if I run with it we can get her done in a couple of weeks.