.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $8.00
winSPWW2- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 11th, 2015, 11:41 PM

vyrago vyrago is offline
Private
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 41
Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
vyrago is on a distinguished road
Default ATGM accuracy

does anyone else feel that across the board, ATGMs are horribly inaccurate? especially current generation: Javelin, Hellfire, Kornet etc.

example from recent battle:

16 Javelins fired
4 hits
2 kills
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 12th, 2015, 12:56 AM
gingertanker's Avatar

gingertanker gingertanker is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 187
Thanks: 51
Thanked 98 Times in 67 Posts
gingertanker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

Actually if anything I always felt that the more modern ones are horribly accurate. 2 weeks ago 6 Kornets were fired at an IDF unit on the Lebanese border. 2 hit...In combat conditions ATGM crews miss alot more than you would expect.
__________________
The best terrain for tank operations is terrain devoid of anti tank weapons.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 12th, 2015, 09:56 PM

jivemi jivemi is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Philippines
Posts: 502
Thanks: 411
Thanked 142 Times in 102 Posts
jivemi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingertanker View Post
Actually if anything I always felt that the more modern ones are horribly accurate. 2 weeks ago 6 Kornets were fired at an IDF unit on the Lebanese border. 2 hit...In combat conditions ATGM crews miss alot more than you would expect.
Did you mean to write "horribly INaccurate" in your first sentence? Otherwise it seems the last sentence contradicts the first. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 13th, 2015, 12:22 PM

vyrago vyrago is offline
Private
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 41
Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
vyrago is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

I think he means that in the game, he finds ATGMs too accurate. He makes the point that IRL they are sometimes not.

While SPMBT takes suppression into account, I feel that an un-suppressed missile unit with decent troop value (above 70) should manage a fairly high hit ratio against a target in the open.

obviously lower unit training, suppression, target movement and cover should reduce that hit-ratio. But in SPMBT i've seen some seemingly 'easy' shots only get about 35% to hit. Just seems a little low for fire-and-forget type missiles.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 13th, 2015, 02:22 PM
gingertanker's Avatar

gingertanker gingertanker is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 187
Thanks: 51
Thanked 98 Times in 67 Posts
gingertanker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyrago View Post
I think he means that in the game, he finds ATGMs too accurate. He makes the point that IRL they are sometimes not
That was exactly my point.
__________________
The best terrain for tank operations is terrain devoid of anti tank weapons.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gingertanker For This Useful Post:
  #6  
Old February 13th, 2015, 07:43 PM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,829
Thanks: 542
Thanked 792 Times in 600 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

For my part I don't mind the effective accuracy at all, seems to wind up being around 25-50% (not including the more-or-less auto-miss for VIRSS equipped targets).

However it seems that about half (or perhaps a bit more) the time even when an ATGM hits it fails to destroy the target.

This combined with the effective accuracy and low number (i.e. ammo) carried by infantry ATGM units means much of the time inf ATGMs only manage 1 kill per scenario.
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 14th, 2015, 01:33 AM
shahadi's Avatar

shahadi shahadi is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: I ain't in Kansas anymore, just north of where Dorothy clicked her heels is where you'll find me.
Posts: 878
Thanks: 584
Thanked 277 Times in 191 Posts
shahadi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyrago View Post
does anyone else feel that across the board, ATGMs are horribly inaccurate? especially current generation: Javelin, Hellfire, Kornet etc.

example from recent battle:

16 Javelins fired
4 hits
2 kills
Honestly, that is not enough information.. what are the sides involved, weather, condition of the ATGM teams and the what were the targets, etc., etc.

Anyway, what I've found is that with very good placement of the ATGM teams, in overwatch if you will, I rely on Opportunity fire to get the kills. Keep their suppression low, filter them, and place them in good FP's on the battlefield. And putting a sniper team in the vicinity of the ATGMs is like putting icing on the cake.

-----

Last edited by shahadi; February 14th, 2015 at 01:58 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 14th, 2015, 06:41 AM
scorpio_rocks's Avatar

scorpio_rocks scorpio_rocks is online now
Major
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 1,036
Thanks: 337
Thanked 432 Times in 311 Posts
scorpio_rocks is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

On a slightly different, but related topic: Is it time the game could model more than 2 "shots" of countermeasures? (Is this even possible?)

Many modern systems are effective more than twice or carry reloads.
__________________

"Gentlemen, when the enemy is committed to a mistake - we must not interrupt him too soon."
Horatio Nelson.
SPMBT Roundel Objectives Mod
SPMBT Small ID Flags Mod
WW2 Roundel Objectives Mod
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 14th, 2015, 01:57 PM
shahadi's Avatar

shahadi shahadi is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: I ain't in Kansas anymore, just north of where Dorothy clicked her heels is where you'll find me.
Posts: 878
Thanks: 584
Thanked 277 Times in 191 Posts
shahadi is on a distinguished road
Confused Re: ATGM accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks View Post
On a slightly different, but related topic: Is it time the game could model more than 2 "shots" of countermeasures? (Is this even possible?)

Many modern systems are effective more than twice or carry reloads.
I'm not sure. Please give an illustration. Are we talking ATGM team reloads, what exactly are the "2 shots of countermeasures?"


-------
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 14th, 2015, 02:39 PM
scorpio_rocks's Avatar

scorpio_rocks scorpio_rocks is online now
Major
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 1,036
Thanks: 337
Thanked 432 Times in 311 Posts
scorpio_rocks is on a distinguished road
Default Re: ATGM accuracy

I was talking about armoured vehicles' "anti-anti-tank" countermeasures - VIRSS or CIWS in game.
Systems like Arena, Iron Curtain, Zaslon, Trophy, etc.

These systems are becoming more sophisticated, cheaper and lighter almost daily and some carry reloads (ie Trophy) or are good for multiple "shots" (ie Iron Curtain). Currently, in game, protected vehicles can only defend against 1 or 2 attacks.

What I was asking (or trying to) is whether the game needs to model these systems in more detail than they are currently, whether it would be possible to add to the number of "shots" available and whether this is indeed linked to percieved ATGM accuracy.

In Gingertanker's example I would be interested to know how many of the 4 Kornets that "missed" were countered by Trophy / Iron Fist / Windbreaker?
__________________

"Gentlemen, when the enemy is committed to a mistake - we must not interrupt him too soon."
Horatio Nelson.
SPMBT Roundel Objectives Mod
SPMBT Small ID Flags Mod
WW2 Roundel Objectives Mod
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.