.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Bronze - Save $8.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank - Save $6.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Shrapnel Community > Space Empires: IV & V > SEIV

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old December 14th, 2006, 12:35 AM
Ironmanbc's Avatar

Ironmanbc Ironmanbc is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 289
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Ironmanbc is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3.05

Quote:
PvK said:
Sounds good, Dogscoff! Do you want to keep the Proportional Response pack as a seperate pack, or shall we just (or also) include it in versions going forward?

I have 3.0.6 itself ready, I think, though I haven't really playtested the new Q-ships to make sure they work properly. It doesn't have a whole lot in it besides those and a few minor fixes, because I wanted to offer a version that wouldn't affect balance before making the next balance-tweak version. I just haven't posted it because of an avalanche of higher-priority things I've needed to do or respond to, and wanted to be sure it worked, and updating the web site is a chore. I think I'll just post 3.0.6 here first (tonight if I remember) as a preview and hope to get some free playtesting, and then if it passes, put it on the web site.

BTW, the next balance-tweak version should be 3.0.7, in which I plan to un-nerf fighters (especially at higher tech levels), semi-nerf weapon platforms so they aren't so ultra-accurate and cost-effective, and probably tweak the mount balance a bit too.

PvK
I'll playtest it for you and see if it needs fixing, i am still playing other mods and my sister asked me if I play with no mods and I said (YA RIGHT)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old December 14th, 2006, 06:35 AM
dogscoff's Avatar

dogscoff dogscoff is offline
General
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dogscoff is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3.05

Quote:
PvK said:
Sounds good, Dogscoff! Do you want to keep the Proportional Response pack as a seperate pack, or shall we just (or also) include it in versions going forward?

Entirely up to you. You're welcome to include it if you want. However, even if you do I probably ought to keep it available as a seperate entity because there will be some people who want to download the images for use in other mods. I can email the files over to you today if you want them.

Oh, and if my Terran_AI is any good to you you're welcome to that as well, obviously. I haven't playtested it, but *in theory* it ought to be a little better than the default 3.05 AI. Although if fighters really are that badly nerfed, they may be better off without them.

I've also got a set of AI files that (ought to) allow neutrals to build colonisers once more. Interested?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old December 14th, 2006, 03:14 PM
PvK's Avatar

PvK PvK is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,806
Thanks: 54
Thanked 33 Times in 31 Posts
PvK is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3

Wow, it's been a long time since the last time I posted a Proportions update! I've been way too busy...

Ok, there is a beta version of 3.0.6 posted here:
http://www.latibulum.com/pvk/proport...3.0.6.beta.zip

The Q-ships should be tested in a game with two human-controlled players. Using High Starting Tech and a very small map would be easiest. The effect should be that if player A builds a regular transport and a Q-ship of the same size, another human player should have no way at all to tell that the Q-ship is not a regular transport, until/unless he scans or encounters that ship class.

The probes should just be lame drones available on turn 1 even in a Low Starting Tech game.

Thanks for the offer of testing, ironmanbc!

Dogscoff:

* To avoid making each version of the mod large with the same graphics in each version, I guess I'll continue as I have and not include the whole prop response pack in the mod, but I would like to include the neutral/default/generic images from the response pack, so it helps shipsets that lack all the unit types used in Proportions. So if you could let me know if there are any new ones of those not in 3.0.6 yet, that'd be great. I.e., in Pictures/RaceGeneric I now have Barge, Infantry, LargeStarliner, ResourceShip, ResourceStation, Starliner, TroopHuge, and WorldShip.

* AI is probably better off not trying to use fighters until 3.0.7 I think.

* Colonizing Neutral AI sounds good though. Would you email it to me?

PvK
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old December 15th, 2006, 01:40 AM
PvK's Avatar

PvK PvK is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,806
Thanks: 54
Thanked 33 Times in 31 Posts
PvK is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3

Oh, I should post the changes in this version:

Changes Log:
============

Version 3.0.6:

--------------
New Additions:
--------------
* Added a new tech area for Q-Ships, which appear to be transports or starliners, but can be nearly fully-equipped warships, though they still maneuver like transports.
* Added probes, which are small low-tech drones, because any space-faring nation should be able to deploy simple robot spacecraft. They are inferior to drones, so one may wish to research Drones and not Probes, so they have their own tech area which requires Computers at level 1.
-----------------
Gameplay Changes:
-----------------
* Reduced crew and life support requirements for Large Transports from 3 to 2.
* Reduced mineral cost of regular Auxiliary Control from 500 to 100.
------
Fixes:
------
* Corrected supply use for Anti - Proton Beam X.
* Corrected (hopefully no-effect...) double "number or tech req" line in Anti - Proton Beam XI.
* Added double-tech-req entries to Point - Defense Cannons IV and V, to be consistent with earlier PD Cannons. (Note: This is an attempt to convince the AI to prefer these on ship designs.)
* Corrected categorization of Anti-Matter Reactor tech area as Applied Science. (7)
* One can no longer upgrade to Space Port + Supply Depot. This was happening to Resupply Bases, removing their benefits and sometimes to no good effect (such as when there was a Space Port City on the planet). (7)
---------
Cosmetic:
---------
* Corrected typo in crew quarters description.

((7) Thanks to Edward Kolis for reporting this!)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old December 15th, 2006, 02:00 PM
dogscoff's Avatar

dogscoff dogscoff is offline
General
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dogscoff is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3

PvK did you get my email?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old December 16th, 2006, 03:45 PM
PvK's Avatar

PvK PvK is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,806
Thanks: 54
Thanked 33 Times in 31 Posts
PvK is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3

Yes I got one (at both accounts). Did you get my reply?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old December 30th, 2006, 04:51 AM
Arralen's Avatar

Arralen Arralen is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 500km from Ulm
Posts: 2,279
Thanks: 9
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Arralen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3

Any news on this?

I tried 2.9.1 or something (the version recommended for SP play) and found the aI to be pretty poor ... would be glad to help, though I don't think I would be able to do much ...
__________________
As for AI the most effective work around to this problem so far is to simply use an American instead, they tend to put up a bit more of a fight than your average Artificial Idiot.
... James McGuigan on rec.games.computer.stars somewhen back in 1998 ...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old December 30th, 2006, 06:36 AM
Atrocities's Avatar

Atrocities Atrocities is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 15,628
Thanks: 0
Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
Atrocities is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3

Its hard to want to work on a mod for a game that no longer is really being valued by the players. Its like going to a party that no one shows up to any more.
__________________
Creator of the Star Trek Mod - AST Mod - 78 Ship Sets - Conquest Mod - Atrocities Star Wars Mod - Galaxy Reborn Mod - and Subterfuge Mod.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old December 30th, 2006, 03:54 PM
PvK's Avatar

PvK PvK is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,806
Thanks: 54
Thanked 33 Times in 31 Posts
PvK is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3.05

Oh, there are a few players still enjoying it. I'm just swamped, and have other projects. Also with 3.0 I was really trying to make the multi-player game more fun, since that's what interests me most (because the SE4 AI can only get so smart without "cheating"), and so I made some things that are interesting for a micro-managing human player, but would be hard to make a competetive AI for.

Arralen, there is also AIC (AI Campaigns) mod, which was based on a 2.x version of Proportions but with major changes and adjustments including heavy AI "cheats" which can be quite challenging and interesting to play against.

PvK
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old December 30th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Arralen's Avatar

Arralen Arralen is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 500km from Ulm
Posts: 2,279
Thanks: 9
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Arralen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Attempting to improve the AI for Proportions 3

Heavy AI cheats do not make up for very poor ship design, eg. .
And I think it should be possible to fix at least the "very", if not the "poor"
__________________
As for AI the most effective work around to this problem so far is to simply use an American instead, they tend to put up a bit more of a fight than your average Artificial Idiot.
... James McGuigan on rec.games.computer.stars somewhen back in 1998 ...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.