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  #11  
Old October 17th, 2009, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

Unit 11: T-54B
1) Weapon n. 54 12.7 DShK AAMG should be replaced with weapon 4714.5 ZPU-1 AAMG
Replacement of the 12.7mm AAMG with the 14.5mm AAMG seems to be a standard feature for North Korean AFVs
2) Loadout could be changed to 15 HE 13 AP 6 HEAT

Unit 12: T-55A
FC should be increased to 7 (see unit 10 T-55A in Russian OOB)

Unit 14: T-62
1) Weapon n. 54 12.7 DShK AAMG should be added in slot 3
2) Availability date changed to 1/1970-12/1994
This would be used to represent the imported and non modified T-62
Source: SIPRI

Unit 15: T-62M
1) Weapon n. 54 12.7 DShK AAMG should be replaced with weapon 47 14.5 ZPU-1 AAMG
2) Loadout could change to 20 HE 10 Sabot 10 HEAT (standard T-62 loadout)
3) Name should be changed to Ch'onma-Ho
This would represent both early production Ch'onma-Ho and refitted imported T-62s. Replacement of the 12.7mm AAMG with the 14.5mm AAMG seems to be a standard feature for North Korean AFVs.

Unit 16: T-62M1
1) Initial availability date changed to 1/1985
2) Name change to Ch'onma-Ho II
3) Weapon n. 54 12.7 DShK AAMG should be replaced with weapon 47 14.5 ZPU-1 AAMG
4) Loadout change to 20 HE 10 Sabot 10 HEAT (standard T-62 loadout)

Here is a somewhat younger Dear Leader examining one of them


Another picture together with the others variants of the family


Unit 583: Ch'onma-Ho IV
1) Initial availability dates changed to 1/1990
2) Weapon n. 54 12.7 DShK AAMG should be replaced with weapon 47 14.5mm ZPU-1 AAMG
3) Loadout change to 20 HE 10 Sabot 10 HEAT (standard T-62 loadout)
As it can be observed from the pictures posted the tank is equipped with a 14.5mm AAMG. It was shown during a parade in 1992so 1/1990 seems a good guess for initial date.

Unit 17: T-62MK
It should be deleted, such version was never in service as far it is known .

Unit 19: Type 59
Availability date changed to 1/1973-12/2020
HE load could be increased to the expense of AP rounds as that would be more in line with known combat loads.

Unit 20: Type 59-I
It should be replaced with a clone of unit 19 Type 59 with the following changes:
1) Availability dates 1/1985-12/2020
2) Weapon n. 230 12.7mm 54T AAMG replaced by weapon 47 14.5 ZPU-1AAMG
Replacement of the 12.7mm AAMG with the 14.5mm AAMG seems to be a standard feature for North Korean AFVs.

Picture of refitted Type 59 on the march


Unit 34 BRDM-2 Susang
VIRSS should be deleted (no such countermeasure is reported to be in service)
Initial availability date should be changed to 1/1991

Weapon n. 155: Susang Po ATGM
HEAT penetration should be increased to 46 at least.

Currently it has a lower penetration than weapon n. 146 9M14 Malutka (40 vs 46). According to SIPRI North Korea has manufactured Sagger ATGMs under license and this Susang Po is described by nearly all sources as Sagger variant, presumably one of the later ones with SACLOS guidance, which is also consistent with the greater accuracy rating in the game (70 vs 60). Warhead penetration should not be inferior to that of an early variant.

Source for most pictures is militaryphotos.net as usual.
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  #12  
Old October 17th, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

.....any chance this is going to turn into another Iraq ???

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  #13  
Old October 17th, 2009, 10:41 PM
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Cool Re: North Korea errors report

Marcello,
You really have a passion for this game! Coming up with all the needed equipment corrections. I look forward to the next upcoming patch update provided Andy and Don can input it all.
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  #14  
Old October 18th, 2009, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
.....any chance this is going to turn into another Iraq ???

No. Iraq has had such a complex armaments story (switching primary suppliers multiple times for example) that it basically needed to be completely redone. North Korea needs only a few adjustments by comparison.
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  #15  
Old October 18th, 2009, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

OK

Don
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  #16  
Old October 18th, 2009, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

To give you an idea, there are still 8-9 units that should be deleted and a similar number to be added. The rest is mostly minor: expanding some availability dates, changing an icon or two with better fits here and there and such.
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  #17  
Old November 8th, 2009, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

The following post should fix all the important remaining issues about vehicular units that have not been addressed previously. Another similar post will deal with infantry/artillery/organization issues. Many of the changes, as noted previously, are cosmetics or limited in nature, although as anticipated some vehicles have to be added/deleted or heavily modified. There should be no deletion of template units or others particular disruptive changes.

Unit n.8 T-34/85
It should be rearmed with weapon n.131 85mm D44 Gun 69 in place of the D-48. HE load could also be increased at the expense of AP and sabot (it would be used mostly for infantry support in reserve units and such).
The D-48, while still being an 85mm, is a different weapon not sharing ammunition and ballistics with the D-44/S-53.

Unit 51 : K63
1) Initial availability date should be changed to 1/1972
2) It should be rearmed with weapon n. 230 12.7mm 54T AAMG or weapon n.47 14.5 ZPU-1 AAMG
3) Speed should be reduced to 20.
This unit would represent the Type-63 APC imported from China and as such it should not have the twin ZPU as armament. These were installed in the local, newly built VTT-323 inside purpose built turrets.

Unit 59: BTR-60PB
Initial availability date should be extended back to 1/1974

Unit 63 BMP-1
1)FC should be reduced to 5
2)The ATGM in slot 2 could be changed to weapon 155 Susang Po ATGM

Unit 64: BMP-1
Initial availability date should be moved back to 1/1972

Unit 65: BMP-2
It should be deleted.
Never supplied according to all available sources.

Units 61-223 :Truck
Icon could be changed to n. 2982
It would fit better the GAZ-51/Zil-131/etc. the north koreans have used for their military. Not a must but nice to have.

Unit 105 : K63 M1973
1) Icon change n. 398.
2) Weapon n. 50 14.5 ZPU-2 TMG replaced with weapon n.47 14.5 ZPU-1 AAMG
3)Reclassed to class 52 Wheeled SP-ATGM
4) Missile ammo in slot 2 should be increased to 12
5)9M32 Strela-2 in slot 3 should be deleted
6) Name change to Type 85 Susang

This would represent the Type 85 ATGM carrier, which can be seen in the lower half of the following picture. (though caption is wrong, the vehicle is not an antiaircraft unit but an ATGM carrier as identified in the USMC North Korea Country Handbook)



Unit 239: OT-64u
It should be deleted.
Never supplied to North Korea according to all available sources.

Unit 222-242: Light Truck and Light Truck FO
Icon should be changed to n. 2956
It would make it look like a generic GAZ , which is what has been used for such tasks anyway.

Unit 265 : IS-IIm1944
Final availability date could be extended to 12/1970
This would compensate the deletion of unit 266 IS-III in the formations using this class of units and fit with the north korean tendency to keep obsolete equipment in service well past its prime.

Unit 270: 2S4
It should be deleted.
It was almost certainly not supplied in 2000 for reasons already discussed and no source mentions it as having been supplied at any other date

Units 272-273 : VTT 323 82mm and VTT 323 120mm
Icons should be changed to icon n. 1991.
Icon n.1991 is a self propelled mortar icon while current icons are just plain OT-64 APCs.

Unit 276: 2S1
It should be deleted.
Never supplied to North Korea according to all available sources.

Unit 277: 2S3
1)It should be renamed “Juche-Po 152mm”
2)Final availability date should be extended to 12/2020
3)Weapon n. 53 7.62 SGMT AAMG in slot 2 could be either deleted or replaced with weapon 47 14.5 ZPU-1 AAMG

Two clones of the above copies should be added armed with the following guns
a) Weapon n. 95 122mm D-74 FG
b) weapon n.115 130mm M46 FG
ROF would be increased to 6 for the 122mm variant

Unit 278: 2S5
1)Weapon n 113 152mm 2A36 FG should be replaced with weapon n.111 152mm D20 FH
2)Name could be changed to M1985
3)Initial availability date could be changed to 1/1982

Unit 279: M1988 Koksan
1)Name change to M1978 Koksan
2)Intial availability date changed to 1/1978
3)Top armor should be reduced to 0 (to be consistent with similar units in others OOB)
This unit is at the moment an hybrid between the early M1978 version, built on a T-54/55 hull, and the later M-1989 version built on a dedicated chassis.

Units 281-282: M1974 and M1977
1)Icons for both vehicles should be changed to n. 1992
2)Speed of unit 282 should be reduced to 22

Unit 462: SU-100M
Stabilizer rating should be reduced to zero

Unit 465 Type 75 SPG
1)Armor and survivability ratings should be reduced to zero
2)FC and Rangefinder ratings should be reduced to zero
3)Icon changed to n. 2348
This woul represent one of the early self propelled artillery complex obtained by mating a gun to ATS-59 prime movers.

Units 466-467-468
They should be deleted. They do not match any know north korean SPA in terms of characteristics

Unit 492: M1992
Icon should be changed to n. 2932. This vehicle has no turret as shown in the following pictures:




To be added

Unit 378 from russian OOB GAZ-69 ATGM
It would be armed with weapon n.143 AT-1 Shmel
Availability dates 1/1967-12/2000

M1991 240mm MRL
1) Create a clone of weapon n.204 240mm Rocket with increased range (225 or so)
2) Import unit n. 530 Type 81 MRL from OOB 14 China
3) Rearm it with 22 of the aforeme mentioned rocket (loadout and ROF will have to be slighty adjusted)



Sources various among which:
- www.militaryphotos.net
- SIPRI arms transfer database
- www.jedsite.info
- USMC North Korea Country Handbook 1997 edition
- North Korean Armed Forces Handbook 1976 edition
- Communist Logistics in the Korean War by Charles R. Shrader;
- North Korea Primer
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  #18  
Old December 8th, 2009, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

Here is a fix for all the remaining non vehicular north korean units which have not been covered in the previous posts. Most proposed changes are about matching on map and off map artillery units availabilit dates. No formations should be disturbed by these modifications (no deletion of template units etc.).
Next post will deal with organizational issues.

Unit 77: 82mm Mortar Sec
An additional mortar shuld be added. North Korea mortar batteries are composed by either nine 82mm mortars or six 120mm ones. Having three mortars in this unit would fix the problem without changing formation.

Unit 90: 76mm ZiS-3 FG
Final availability date should be extended to 12/1966 to match units 171-172

Unit 169 76mm ZiS3 Sec
It could be deleted as redundant.

Unit 171 and 172 76mm ZiS3 Sec and 76mm ZiS3 Sec +
Their number of guns should be reduced from three to two. They were used in a “four guns per battery and twelve guns per battalion“ organization.

Unit 91 122mm M30 FG
Final availability date should be extended to 12/1979 to match its off board counterpart unit 173

Unit 173 122mm M30 Sec
The number of guns should be reduced from three to two. They were used in a “four guns per battery and twelve guns per battalion“ organization.

Unit 95 152mm D-1 FH and unit 176 152mm D1 Sec
Mismatched availability dates
I suggest changing to 2/1948-12/2010 for both.

152mm D20 FH
Initial availability date should be moved back to 1/1966 to match unit 177, its offboard counterpart.

Unit 174 122mm D30 Sec
Initial availability date should moved back to 1/1967 to match unit 92, its on map counterpart.

An off board artillery unit using weapon n. 123 170mm Koksan FG should be added as well.

Unit 301 and Unit 311: Rifle Section
They should be rearmed with weapon n. 4 SKS Carbine in slot 1
AK-47 would not have been available in numbers at such a date; SKS on the other hand were widely exported in that timeframe.

Unit 476: 45mm M1942 ATG
I suggest loadout change to 40 HE 25 AP and 15 Sabot.
This gun was often used against infantry, as it had only very limited effectivines against contemporary armor and its HE shell was rather powerful for a gun of such caliber. Besides no HEAT rounds were available.

There seem to two ATGM sets, identical except for mismatched availability dates. I suggest the following changes to fix the issue

Unit 292: Fagot Team
Final availability date could be extended to 12/2020

Unit 432: Fagot Team
To be deleted: duplicate of unit 292

Unit 433: Susang Po Team
To be reclassed as class 142 Para Inf-AT.
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  #19  
Old January 16th, 2010, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

Here is the post with the fix for north korean organizations. It is a bit long but it should fix pretty much everything except the special forces/marines/airborne, for which I simply lack info to pass any judgement. There may still be a unit or two which need tweaks but with this nearly all of the work is done.

Formation 14 rifle company
1) Initial availability date should be changed to 1/1955
2) unit n. 68 82mm B10 RCL should be added in slot 8.
This configuration would be pretty good to represent a post korean war rifle company reinforced with battalion level support weapons.

The standard rifle company used during the korean war had a somewhat different organization
To fix that I suggest adding another rifle company with 2/1948-12/1954 as availability dates and the following structure.
1)rifle squad
2)three rifle platoons with four squads each
3)one weapons platoon in turn composed by:
a) Two MG sections such as unit 410 SGM MMG (2)
b) One unit 75 60mm Mortar Sec
c) Three unit n. 285 AT Rifle Team

Another rifle comnpany could be added composed by:
1)One Rifle Section unit n. 310
2)Three Formation n. 38 Rifle Platoon
1/1955–12/2020 as availability dates.
This in turn would represent a post korean war rifle company in its “by the book” configuration, according to what is reported by south korean sources. The players could reinforce with support weapons as desired.

Formation 15: Anti-Tank Pl
Inital availability dates should be moved back to 1/1967

Formation 22 Mech AT/AA Sec
Unit n. 69 107mm B11 RCL should be replaced by unit 431 Malutka Team.

Formation 33: Inf-ATGM Sec
Initial availability date could be moved back to 1/1972.

Formation 37: Mech Inf Pl
The MGs section in slot 4 should be deleted and the number of APCs should be reduced to three. Composition of a mechanized platoon is three squads with three APCs.


Formation n.69 Motor Bn Supt
- Formation n. 59 Motor MG Pl in slot n. 4 should be replaced by formation n. 13 SPAA Platoon
- Formation n. 89 Mot Mortar Pl in slot 5 could be replaced by formation n. 115 modified as described
- Formation n. 15 Anti-Tank Pl should be added in slot 6.

Formation n. 115: Mot Hvy Mort Pl
- name changed to “Mot Mort Pl”
- unit n. 80 160mm Mortar in slots 1-2-3 replaced by Unit 77 82mm Mortar Sec
This would create a mortar battery mounted on wheeled APC, useful to complement motorized formations. 160mm mortars would, most likely, be towed by normal artillery prime movers.


Formation n.70: Inf Bn Supt
- Formation n. 35 Machinegun Pl in slot n. 3 should be replaced by formation n.30 Inf-SAM Sec
- Formation n. 32 AT Gun Platoon in slot 4 should be replaced by formation n. 29 AntiTank RCL Pl
- Formation n. 87 Inf AT Team in slot 6 should be replaced by formation n.33 Inf-ATGM Sec
This would provide the correct allottment of support weapons for an infantry battalion in the post korea war era.

Formation n. 77: SPG Platoon
The number of units shoudl be increased from three to four

Formation 85: Motor Rifle Co
- Unit 60 BTR-80 in slot 3 should be replaced by formation n. 387 Wheeled APC Pl
-Formation n. 59 Motor MG Pl in slot 4 should be replaced by unit n. 410 SGM MMG (2)
- Formation n.88 Lt Mortar Pl-M should be replaced by unit n. 77 82mm Mortar Sec
This would represent a mechanized company reinforced with support weapons from the battalion level and the transports for them

Formation 92: Motor Rifle Pl
Unit n. 70 73mm SPG9 RCL in slot 4 should be replaced by an AT team (such as template unit n. 285)

Formation n. 96: M/Inf ATGM Sec
Initial availability date should be moved back to 1/1972.

Formation n. 106 Rocket Bty
Another formation n. 107 Rocket Pl should be added in slot 5.


Formation n. 125: Reserve Company
Formation 39 Reserve Platoon in slot 7 should be deleted, reducing the number of reserve platoons from four to three.

Formation 39: Reserve Platoon
-The number of reserve squads should be reduced from four to three, either by deleting one of them or replacing one of them it with a AT team (such as template unit 285).
-Initial availability date should be changed from 2/1948 to 1/1954 to match its parent company.

Formation n. 141: Light Tank Pl
Number of tanks in the platoon should be reduced to three

Formation n. 214: Truck Inf Co
- Unit n. 286 RPG-2 Team in slot 7 should be replaced with with Unit n. 75 60mm Mortar Sec
- Unit n. 286 RPG-2 Team in slot 8 should be replaced with with formation n. 87 Inf AT Team
- Unit n. 223 Truck should be replaced with formation n. 392 Trucks (3)
- Final availability date should be restricted to 12/1954

Formation 216: Truck Inf Pl
The MG section in slot 4 should be replaced with a rifle section. Final availability date should be restricted to 12/1954

This would represent a truck mounted version of the korean war period rifle company. As no APCs were available in quantity at the time (some BTR-40 may have been around but from what I get they were probably used as armored cars/scouts) any motorized formation, to the extent any was used, would have been mounted on trucks.

Unit 61: Truck
Final availability date could be extended to 12/2020.
This would enable truck mounted formations with the correct post korean war company organization.

Formation 26: Mech Inf Co+Tk4
It could be deleted as redundant, besides it is unclear if the four tanks per platoon organization was used after the korean war. Formation 25 Mech Inf Co+Tk3 is quite sufficient.

Formation n. 6: Assault Co
The assault platoon in slot 5 would be deleted , reducing the number of platoons to three.

Formation n. 93 Assault Platoon
Composition should be changed to six units n. 340 SMG teams and one unit n. 350 LMG team.
This would represent korean war era SMG companies.


Some formations to be added
1) A clone of formation n.16 AA-Gun Battery but with six guns

2) A clone of formation n. 28 Field Gun Bty wityh the number of guns reduced to four and 2/1948-12/1979 as availability dates

3) A clone of formation n.32 AT Gun Platoon but with four guns and 2/1948-12/1955 as availability dates.

4) A Weapons Company Composed by
a) Two units n. 412 DShK HMG (2)
b) one AT Gun Platoon
c) Three formations n. 87 Inf AT Team
2/1948-12/1954 as availability dates


A clone of unit n. 175 130mm M46 Sec with the ammo load increased to 120 rounds per gun could be added.
This would be useful to represent those long range artillery units emplaced in prepared positions near the DMZ, one of the few strenghts of North Korea. In light of the fact that several high end units (T-80s, BMP-3s etc) would have to be deleted this would also be a partial compensation.
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  #20  
Old January 16th, 2010, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

A very useful source for the above has been the
"North Korean People's Army 1950 - 1953" found here
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