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  #21  
Old January 22nd, 2010, 03:18 PM

ExplorerBob ExplorerBob is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

As is par, I have experienced some complications.

The current code for handling ally relations is less than reliable. Please take a look at it, when you have the time; I'll post up all the files necessary to handle variable relations at the moment.

One notable difficulty with the current code is that, if I recall right, it refuses to acknowledge homeworld special relations, and will instead give you the neutral party line, even though it works fine if you visit a non-homeworld star also controlled by the Muktians.

The file should work, but if you experience any trouble, please let me know.
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File Type: zip Muktiandiplomacy.zip (4.7 KB, 118 views)
  #22  
Old January 23rd, 2010, 12:45 PM

sgqwonkian sgqwonkian is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

Having looked briefly at your code and not found any obvious typos or conflicts*, I suspect the problem lies in when "TYPE homeworld" triggers.

I think it triggers only upon arriving at a homeworld and either avoiding or surviving a fight. After all, it's the same code used in the main game's home_muk to tell you "You have won a decisive victory!" and that only happens after the battle is over.

So, if you want them to be friendly or enemy at the homeworld, you need to make sure it's set before you ever get to the homeworld.

Currently, on the first two pages of lovemuk, you have a REQ3 that draws on either CONDITION 4 or 5. One of those is "nothome", so it'll trigger before the fight whenever you're not at Bandur. The other is "homeworld", so it'll only trigger at Bandur, but after the fight is over.

I think the solution is to get rid of REQ3 on the first page of lovemuk, and get rid of the second page entirely. Then, in theory, the first page will trigger whenever you meet them, regardless of where it is.

Also worth noting that in lovemuk, it's possible to match the triggers to both the first page and the third page at the same time. However, due to the "ACTN endquest break" in the first page, it'll never load the third page. If you remove the "ACTN" (and just the break, not the popup or endquest) from the first page, it'll display the third page after the first one. I think.

I'm hoping that solves your problems. I haven't tested it yet, but the logic seems sound.

__________________________________________________ ___________

*: Okay, so there is one possible conflict/error/typo, but I haven't tested it yet, and it's definitely not related to what's causing the muktians to not be friendly at their homeworld. You have REMS happen twice in page 1 of hatemuk. It targets different ships each time, but I've found that with some codes (it was either ITEM or ITMS, don't remember which off the top of my head) there's trouble when you use the same code twice in one page.

Don't know if that will be the case with REMS, but I mention it just in case. Should you ever find that the ship doesn't go away, it's probably because of the code happening twice on the same page - only one activation happens. The solution, should that problem manifest, would be to move the second instance of REMS to PAGE 2.
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  #23  
Old January 25th, 2010, 07:31 AM

ExplorerBob ExplorerBob is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

Testing on the Muktians has proven promising and it seems this particular part of this project is finally nearing completion.

One problem has popped up, though, when trying to extend variable relations to the Zorg; I've noticed that sometimes, the game has systems with no objects in-system, which is an annoying tip as to the state of the relations. While the current code does place plasma blasters and cone cannons on Hope, based on relation state, this is only for testing, so that I can restart the game until I get an altered-relations game. I don't want the rest of the galaxy to be affected by the state of variable relations.

It's also annoying how the event takes up a standard event slot, meaning that there can be either significantly fewer or too many standard star events, depending on how the variable relations generation goes.

All in all, this project has been promising, but perhaps inferior to the original idea of making new races, similar to existing ones, with only the different attitude. I do wish WW supported variable relations by default; it would make things a lot easier if there was a genuine hard-coded way to have it randomly choose a race's alignment at the beginning of each game.

While my original plan was to have the Muktians and Zorg fully affected by variable relations, it might be better, for the sake of the game's event limitations, to leave it to the Muktians. They are "fickle and cautious", anyway, so this explains their erratic behavior in-game. It takes somewhat more suspension of disbelief to accept the Zorg randomly deciding to attack people who just came to their space.

Last edited by ExplorerBob; January 25th, 2010 at 07:32 AM.. Reason: Got rid of a repetitive word
  #24  
Old January 25th, 2010, 10:19 AM

sgqwonkian sgqwonkian is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExplorerBob View Post
One problem has popped up, though, when trying to extend variable relations to the Zorg; I've noticed that sometimes, the game has systems with no objects in-system, which is an annoying tip as to the state of the relations. While the current code does place plasma blasters and cone cannons on Hope, based on relation state, this is only for testing, so that I can restart the game until I get an altered-relations game. I don't want the rest of the galaxy to be affected by the state of variable relations.
Try inserting this bit of code into any quest that seems to generate an empty planet (or, if you can't tell which quest is doing it, insert this to every new quest that doesn't have a STAR block, or whose only STAR block references Hope / Glory).

Quote:
STAR 0
STRC yellow
END STAR

CONDITION 0
TYPE explore
STR0 0
END CONDITION

PAGE 0
REQ0 0
ITMS 1 tech
END PAGE
That should put a random item at the stars that are turning up empty. It should mask the problem nicely - the players will never be able to tell that anything unusual loaded at all.
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  #25  
Old January 28th, 2010, 06:40 PM

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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

It turns out that the lack of items on planets is because the itemless star is where the ship should be -- only it fails to generate.

If/when you have the time, please take a look at this code and see what you think of it. "Wormapathy" is generated by haven.ini; wormhate and wormlove are generated by the lovemuk and hatemuk files. It's been a while since I released the other files, but I think they should still be compatible?

The idea is to have three types of merc, one for each diplomatic state. hatemuk should trigger a Muktian mercenary; the others trigger allies that are functionally equivalent.

Composition of the zip file should be similar to last time; few tweaks to the love/hate files to get them to work better, and the currently-malfunctioning mercs.
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File Type: zip mukmercfiles.zip (3.3 KB, 110 views)
  #26  
Old February 2nd, 2010, 12:16 PM

sgqwonkian sgqwonkian is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

Have you ever tried to mod a quest that uses the THIF or SABT commands? I did, a while back, and I found there's all sorts of problems. Neither of those two codes will work with anything but the "explore" CONDITION. Put any other trigger on the quest, and it'll never take an item from you. There's some other weirdness specific to those codes as well, like THIF needing to be in the first PAGE, and it parses haveitem differently then it should. Point being, all the codes pertaining to Esmerelda are really wonky, and only reliably work in the specific scenarios used in the maingame. Stray far from the example, and it'll break.

So, after much tinkering and testing, I've come to the conclusion that MERC has similar restrictions. The problem isn't your code, it's the the very coding of the game itself. As near as I can tell, the MERC command doesn't work with CONDITION TYPE uvar. (It may just be that CONDITION uvar evaluates after the point where the game needs to already have launched the special MERC hiring window and protocol.)

I draw this conclusion most based on these two observations:
  1. If I change all your MERC entries to ALLY, it generates the ship in every scenario and combination.
  2. If I change all your ALLY entries to MERC, it never generates a ship.

I'll go add that to the big debugging list at the wiki.

So, your possible choices for the mod under discussion seem to be:
  • Revert to the default quest without modding it, since it works.
  • Remove the CONDITION TYPE uvar, and set them all to MERC.
  • Set that one MERC to ALLY instead, but keep the uvar CONDITION and use alternate text to hint that he's an outlaw.
  • Move the MERC code to the first PAGE, and test to see if that works. I doubt it will, but given how weird the THIF and SABT codes are, I can rule it out till it's been tested.
  • Surprise me with something clever, new and fun that's not on this list.

Sorry it took so long for me to figure out the problem. It wasn't till this morning that I thought far enough outside the box to realize the issue might not be your coding. The past couple days, I'd been looking for a typo that didn't exist.


One more thing. I found this other possible bug (depending on how you view it, you might see it as a feature) in the mod. Wormhate overrides the Mantle of Babulon. I had the mantle and met the Muktians. They gave me the "cruel Slorn" speech, like we were gonna fight. Then they gave me the "return of the ancient ones! We exude ooze in jubilation" greeting in a second window. Then they attacked me. You might want to go tweak mantle_muk to make it less surreal.
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  #27  
Old February 4th, 2010, 10:54 AM

sgqwonkian sgqwonkian is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

Quote:
Move the MERC code to the first PAGE, and test to see if that works. I doubt it will, but given how weird the THIF and SABT codes are, I can rule it out till it's been tested.
That was, of course, supposed to say "I can't rule it out till it's been tested."
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  #28  
Old February 4th, 2010, 09:52 PM

ExplorerBob ExplorerBob is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

I wonder if having any variations in the ally pages at all prohibits generation. I've been trying #3, changing the merc to an ally and having slightly variant text, but it never generates.

I'm getting inclined to give up on the merc side of variable relations and just get VR working again (since I managed to break it while I was working on the merc side).
  #29  
Old February 5th, 2010, 03:09 AM

sgqwonkian sgqwonkian is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExplorerBob View Post
I wonder if having any variations in the ally pages at all prohibits generation. I've been trying #3, changing the merc to an ally and having slightly variant text, but it never generates.

Really? I'm pretty sure it worked just fine when I tested it. I'm fairly certain that I got the ally version to generate, with the mercs text, at a time when the wormhate variable was in play. They even took him away later. Weird.

You're putting the ally line in the right spot? After TEXT, not before it where MERC goes? Just double-checking, 'cause off the top of my head I can't think of anything else that would wind up with in me getting one result, and you getting the other. So bizarre.

I guess I'll try to play around with it again sometime in the next few days, and see if I can reproduce what I remember happening. Maybe I'm remembering wrong?
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  #30  
Old February 7th, 2010, 10:35 AM

ExplorerBob ExplorerBob is offline
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Default Re: Variations in Friendliness

Muktians, for some reason, always give me the ally message now.

Quote:
FLAG event
KEYS muktian

STAR 0
FLAG existing
PLNT hope
ITEM wp_projmoly
UVAR wormthink wormhate
END STAR

CONDITION 0
TYPE encounter
STR0 muktian
END CONDITION

CONDITION 1
TYPE uvar
STR0 wormthink
STR1 wormhate
END CONDITION

CONDITION 2
TYPE noitem
STR0 ps_mukamb
END CONDITION

CONDITION 3
TYPE noitem
STR0 mantle
END CONDITION

CONDITION 4
TYPE haveshiprace
STR0 muktian
END CONDITION

CONDITION 5
TYPE nothome
STR0 muktian
END CONDITION

PAGE 0
REQ0 0
REQ1 1
REQ2 2
REQ3 3
REQ4 4
REQ5 5
ACTN popup endquest break
MUSC music/vidcast.ogg
GFXP races/muktian.jpg 0
FRND muktian
TITL Muktian Vidcast
TEXT It is good that you come accompanied by one of our own! Since cooperation is your intent, we urge you to visit Bandur, our home world colony located in the system, to meet with our potentates.
END PAGE

PAGE 0
REQ0 0
REQ1 1
REQ2 2
REQ3 3
REQ4 4
ACTN popup endquest break
MUSC music/vidcast.ogg
GFXP races/muktian.jpg 0
FRND muktian
TITL Muktian Vidcast
TEXT It is good that you come accompanied by one of our own! Since cooperation is your obvious intent, we grant you safe passage through our star systems that you may know our ventures are profitable.
END PAGE

PAGE 0
REQ0 0
REQ1 1
REQ2 2
REQ3 3
ACTN popup endquest
GFXP races/muktian.jpg 0
ENMY muktian
TITL Muktian Vidcast
TEXT Trespassers! As the cruel Slorn attacks the weak and the sick, we swarm now to attack you with horrific weapons and the hunger of victory in our digestive tracts. From deep caves of steel and stone, we come!
MUSC music/vidcast.ogg
END PAGE
This makes no sense to me. Both of the ally messages require having a friendly ship, and I don't.
 

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