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Re: CherryMod Thread
What period of Japanese history are you targeting for the majority of the information? Or is it all fantasy based? (I don't mind either way; but the most attractive themes in my mind are those with a little bit of our history mixed in)
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Re: CherryMod Thread
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Sometimes swords were dominant, sometimes spears, and I really don't know enough to make a theme for a specific era. If you know any Japanese mythology, it would be useful for making heroes, national summons, national gods, and national sites. I don't know much about Japanese religion or mythology. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Is it so that if you give two weapons to a unit (s)he automatically uses both? If that is the case then here's the nation dedicated to dual-wielding. =) It's just that I've been under impression that in ancient Japan using two swords (long ones, at least) was considered somewhat barbaric. Samurais had katana and short sword, but they weren't used at the same time. Therefore Japan as the nation of dual-wielders strikes me as 'unthematic' (not that it has any relevance to a fantasy setting), but I might very well be wrong. (Of course, for ninjas and ronins everything goes, it's just those samurais with twin katanas...)
While still on that subject, there's this historical figure whose fame was partially owed to the fact he used two swords http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , Miamoto or something, to succesfully beat a heap of people. Good enough for a hero? |
Re: CherryMod Thread
[quote]Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
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The two primary Shinto deities are Izanami (female) and Izanagi (male). They were siblings, but also husband and wife. Anyway they created the world, but Izanami ended up dying and going to the underworld after giving birth to one of her children. Izanagi followed her there to take it back, but since she was already decomposing, or according to some accounts she just aged a great deal, she said it was too late and made him leave. The two of them seem to be an embodiment of the yin/yang concept, with Izanami being the yin (feminine/soft/passive/cold/etc.) and Izanagi being the yang (masculine/hard/active/warm/etc). I could easily see them as death and nature oriented pretenders, respectively. Inari is a rice deity of ambiguous gender. Some of what I've read says female, some says male, so I'm not sure. Inari is very much associated with fox spirits called kitsune, so attracting them may be a possibility for this deity. I recommend this link as a source of kitsune info, and a bit about Inari. The famous kitsune section has a few that might be good as hero units. http://www.comnet.ca/~foxtrot/kitsune/kitsune1.htm Kappa are sort of bipedal frogs with shells on their backs. They're associated with water (their natural habitat, but they can go on land as well) and it's believed that if they ever dry out they die. Hannya are the spirits of jealous women who became demons because of their jealousy. They're known to drink blood, particularly from children and infants. Outside of Shinto beliefs there's a historical figure that ended up rising to legendary status. Minamoto Yo****sune. In short he and his brother Yoritomo were both on the same side of a civil war of a sort. Their side was victorious, but somewhere along the line some animosity built up between the brothers. Yoritomo decided Yo****sune needed to die, and eventually he did. In any case Yo****sune was said to be a very capable fighter and general, and was also said to have been trained by a race of men with some bird-like characteristics (tengu). His consort Shizuka Gozen is quite well known in her own right too. I could very easily see her as a modified geisha. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Japanese myth and folklore contains many beings of possible interest. Several kinds of bakemono (something like goblins), the kitsune (fox spirit), tatsu (dragon), oni (demons), yurei (ghosts), uba (hags) and others.
The main diety of the shinto religion is Amaterasu Omi-no-Kami, the sun goddess. But as Hana said Japanese mythology is rather syncretistic and shinto and buddhist beliefs are mixed. Spirits and beings of both religions appear more or less side by side. Magical beliefs are basically taoistic. Accidentally I rediscovered the good old japanese RPG 'Bushido' during christmas. I couldn't resist making a campaign for the game (not finished though), so I'm feeling rather Nippon-friendly right now. If you can find 'Bushido' buy it. It has useful info on society, arms and legendary beings of Japan. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
This race seems to have troops light in both gold and in resources, and units that need much resources AND others who want much gold. Quite a tricky situation! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Are you sure Death ninja need water magic? Water => quickness... Interesting. You should try doing graphics: if you try enough, you will eventually get something useful... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I do most my essays more than once, and whenever I try to draw I make mostly crap, and sometimes something that I can recognize. You could also ask if Illwinter will let you to change the colors of their dragons. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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As for graphics - that Last part was pretty much assumed=) But it would be fun to get left brain exercise for once. Or right brain, I'm not sure... Quote:
The monks, of course, will all be ambidextrous. But as for dual katanas... should I limit that to "dishonorable ronin"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Kristoffer and Hana - thanks for the intriguing tidbits=) I'll see how well I can incorporate some of it... a lot might require spell modding, of course... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif But neither of you mentioned tanukis. I want a tanuki pretender, but I don't really think they're helpful to anyone=) Maybe they should cause bad events (stolen food and artifacts), but cost negative points... or have "Cute +4", like Awe +4, except failing a cuteness throw makes you join the side of the cute one. Well, I'll try to come up with realistic stats for some of those creatures tonight. -Cherry |
Re: CherryMod Thread
.. my 0,02 EUR on that matter:
Ninjas .. oh no, please don't do that. There wheren't any people like black-clad mummy clans which stalked the night. Those where an "invention" of Hongkong filmmakers who hired some workers from the docks as "sword fodder". There where some stealthy assassines out there, but they didn't hide in the dark but under the disguise of common men edited: or women http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . So if you're giving the nation an assasine, make it look like some peasant or something. dual wielding It isn't "barbaric" to wield 2 Katana, it's almost impossible. Even using Katana/Wakizashi at the same time is technically difficult, so it's a thing for elite troops only. 2-handed swords The Katana is basically bastard sword, it can be wielded both 1- and 2-handed. In it's "final" form it's not longer than european Longswords. However, it's just that the swords got shorter over time. The first Katana, and before them the tachi even more, where 20 to 50cm longer and 2-handed only. [barbaric swords Using 2 straight swords was considered barbaric, simply as it was chinese http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But was only after ~900, the very first swords in Japan where imported chinese weapons, or derived from those, and had an straight blade. There's that tale about that "swords of the gods" (cannot remember the name ..) that is described as straight and 2-edged, though. Everything AFAIK and IMHO, o.c. yours Arralen [ January 06, 2004, 05:13: Message edited by: Arralen ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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As for the other info... hmmm. Thanks! But I have to ask, now. Everyone seems to have good reasons for samurai to not have wakizashis... does anyone know why they did? Were they for blocking, or just a "sidearm"? -Cherry |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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As for that 'barbaric' notion, I stand corrected. Anyway, dual-wielding long weapons is featured in films a lot because it is flashy, not because it would actually be a viable way to fight (Uma Thurman in Kill Bill, anyone?-). |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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However, there was a famous Japanese samouraļ (I can't remember the name) that did develop a two weapon style for katana and wakizashi, together. That style was designed to fight against several opponents at once. It's also the kind of style that needs year to learn. So if you want to include it for elite troops, that would be all right I think. Oh, and I would say that in that case the wakizashi is mostly for defensive purpose, so I would give these troops better defence, but only a weak attack with the wakizashi. Sort of like a parrying dagger. [ January 06, 2004, 10:08: Message edited by: General Tacticus ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Re: CherryMod Thread
Most soldiers, only had standard issue weapons. As they, or their lord, or country, only had enough money to give them what they needed, not what they wanted. Which in most cases ment a primary and if you were lucky, a secondary weapon. Most commonly the secondary weapon was a knife, or dagger, or fork that was used as an eating utensil, shovel, comb, razor.
By and large fighting with two weapons made for clumsy combat and as most SCA fanbois will comment, fighting with a shield is about 100x more effective, though it doesn't look cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Most of the ambidexterous units in the game at current are rare. Only a particular type are given it (Bane Spider, Lava Warrior, Warlord, etc) I don't think it would be all that unfathomable to have the monks and the ninjas dual wield, but not every elite unit they have. Also, just a footnote. Most samurai used naginata as their primary weapon, from either horseback or on foot as it afforded them both reach to fight either type of troop (cavalry or foot) and ease of training as well as being able to bash things they couldn't cut. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Do not mix up common soldiers and samurai - should be obvious that the latter are more equal to the european/near eastern knights.
However, their swords where mostly of at least "good" qualitity, even if they didn't have rice straw sandals to put on their feet in winter. European knights on the other hand had some crappy armament at times ... dual-wield When I said "elite" troops, I meant that. Not just the beefed-up Version of infantry. In DOM terms this would most likely be the holy troop type. As someone said - wielding 2 full-seized swords effectivly is very hard in every regard. The chinese swords used this way are generally rather short (up to 80cm) and very lightly build - I doubt they would pierce an late 1100 european-style double layered chain mail, neither trusting nor slashing. Sometimes dual-wielding of the daisho is attributed to Miramoto Musashi ("Book of 5 Rings"), dating in the late 16th (early 17th - not shure about this) century. But I somehow doubt that it took really that long until someone got it right. On the other hand, as I said before, swords got shorter over time, and around 1100 it would have been simply impossible to use the Tachi/Katana of 1,4m one-handed all time. The Wakizashi isn't an eastern form of the main-gauche, though. It's mostly 50-70 cm long and a real shortsword, not some form of dagger. It is carried at all times, so when in a friends house it's the main weapon, as the longsword is left at the entrance. In regular combat it is used when fighting in confined spaces or when the battle is that "tight" that the combatants get into grappling range regularly. It is used to deflect incoming blows, than counter-attack while the fighter closes in if used as a main weapon. Doing this while using it off-hand is incredibly difficult ... Last -and least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif - it was used to commit seppuku ... main weapon At times, the bow was the primary weapon, sometimes the naginata, then some sword in varying length. I think personal preference and the randomness of situation would have had a strong influence. Keep in mind, though, that in general blades with less than "good" quality where used for either swords given to peasant-soldiers or sword-lances in general. This shows that the lances where considered disposable to some degree. Everything AFAIK and IMHO, as ever... A. edited: spelling [ January 08, 2004, 07:48: Message edited by: Arralen ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Re: CherryMod Thread
I changed around some of the RS units as per the suggestions floating around... for example, the only dual-sword-wielding units are now the Elite Samurai and a couple commanders. All the other katana-and-wakizashi units have a piece of armor called a "wakizashi". All the ninja, monks, and ronin thugs dual-wield and are ambidextrous-2.
Also, I reduced the magic level of the master ninja and corrected some stat errors. And gave the hero Himura Battosai magical and heroic quickness. In-game, though, he will not be equippable with anything other than "misc" items, so he shouldn't turn out unbalanced. Similarly, the ninja assassins and geisha will either have no torso slot, or (if possible) lose their stealth when given armor. Stealthy-30 units in Black Steel Full Plate are pretty silly=) As for the mythological units, I've not had time to add them yet but I will soon. Unless someone else wants to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Current Rising Sun lineup: New Unit: RS Peasant (Base creature: RS Peasant) HP: 7 Str: 8 Prot: 0 Att: 8 Mrl: 6 Def: 7 Mrst: 9 Prec: 10 Enc: 6 AP: 6 Weapons: Kama Items: Straw Hat Gold: 3 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Militia (Base creature: RS Militia) HP: 8 Str: 8 Prot: 4 Att: 9 Mrl: 7 Def: 8 Mrst: 9 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 8 Weapons: Te Yari Items: Hachi, Leather Cuirass Gold: 5 Res: 4 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ronin Thug Nunchaku (Base creature: RS Ronin Thug) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 8 Att: 11 Mrl: 9 Def: 10 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Nunchaku, Nunchaku Items: Hachi, Tatami Do Gold: 6 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ronin Thug Wakizashi (Base creature: RS Ronin Thug) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 8 Att: 11 Mrl: 9 Def: 12 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Wakizashi, Tanto Items: Hachi, Tatami Do Gold: 6 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ronin (Base creature: RS Ronin) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 11 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 14 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Haramaki Do Gold: 8 Res: 3 ******************************** New Unit: RS Yari Ashigaru (Base creature: RS Ashigaru) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 8 Att: 11 Mrl: 9 Def: 10 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Su Yari Items: Hachi, Tatami Do Gold: 9 Res: 10 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai Archer (Base creature: RS Samurai Archer) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 8 Att: 10 Mrl: 10 Def: 11 Mrst: 10 Prec: 11 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Wakizashi, Yumi Items: Hachi, Tatami Do Gold: 10 Res: 12 ******************************** New Unit: RS Yari Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 11 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 10 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Su Yari Items: Kabuto, Haramaki Do Gold: 12 Res: 16 ******************************** New Unit: RS Light Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 10 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 14 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Hachi, Haramaki Do Gold: 12 Res: 21 ******************************** New Unit: RS Nodachi Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 11 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 11 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Nodachi Items: Kabuto, Haramaki Do Gold: 12 Res: 23 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai (Base creature: RS Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 10 Prot: 14 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 9 Enc: 5 AP: 10 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Nuinobe Do Gold: 13 Res: 28 ******************************** New Unit: RS Naginata Samurai (Base creature: RS Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 10 Prot: 14 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 9 Mrst: 10 Prec: 9 Enc: 5 AP: 10 Weapons: Naginata Items: Kabuto, Nuinobe Do Gold: 13 Res: 24 ******************************** New Unit: RS Heavy Samurai (Base creature: RS Heavy Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 12 Mrst: 10 Prec: 8 Enc: 7 AP: 8 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 15 Res: 32 ******************************** New Unit: RS Heavy Naginata Samurai (Base creature: RS Heavy Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 8 Mrst: 10 Prec: 8 Enc: 7 AP: 8 Weapons: Naginata Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 15 Res: 28 ******************************** New Unit: RS Elite Samurai (Base creature: RS Elite Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 14 Att: 11 Mrl: 13 Def: 12 Mrst: 11 Prec: 9 Enc: 5 AP: 10 Ambidextrous 3 Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi Items: Kabuto, Nuinobe Do Gold: 16 Res: 28 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai Cavalry (Base creature: RS Samurai Cavalry) HP: 13 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 15 Mrst: 11 Prec: 8 Enc: 5 AP: 20 Mounted Weapons: Katana, Hoof Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 30 Res: 37 ******************************** New Unit: RS Horse Archer (Base creature: RS Horse Archer) HP: 12 Str: 11 Prot: 10 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 11 Enc: 4 AP: 24 Mounted Weapons: Te Yari, Daikyu, Hoof Items: Hachi, Haramaki Do Gold: 25 Res: 14 ******************************** New Unit: RS Blind Monk (Base creature: RS Blind Monk) HP: 9 Str: 10 Prot: 11 Att: 13 Mrl: 14 Def: 16 Mrst: 14 Prec: 4 Enc: 3 AP: 10 Sacred Weapons: Iron Fist, Iron Fist, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 30 Res: 10 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk (Base creature: RS Monk) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 13 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Knife Hand, Nerve Strike, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 16 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk Bo (Base creature: RS Monk) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 15 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Bo, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 16 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk Sai (Base creature: RS Monk) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 17 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Sai, Sai, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 16 Res: 4 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja (Base creature: RS Ninja) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 16 Mrst: 10 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Stealthy 20, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Sai, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 20 Res: 10 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk Commander (Base creature: RS Monk Commander) HP: 10 Str: 11 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 15 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 3 Magic: Holy 2 Weapons: Bo, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 30 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Shinto Master (Base creature: RS Shinto Master) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 1 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 15 Mrst: 15 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred Magic: Holy 3 Weapons: Bo, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 60 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai Commander (Base creature: RS Samurai Commander) HP: 12 Str: 10 Prot: 17 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 11 Mrst: 11 Prec: 10 Enc: 7 AP: 8 Ambidextrous 3 Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 30 Res: 32 ******************************** New Unit: RS Mounted Commander (Base creature: RS Mounted Commander) HP: 13 Str: 10 Prot: 10 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 17 Mrst: 11 Prec: 12 Enc: 4 AP: 25 Mounted Weapons: Katana, Daikyu, Hoof Items: Wakizashi, Hachi, Haramaki Do Gold: 50 Res: 23 ******************************** New Unit: RS Daimyo (Base creature: RS Daimyo) HP: 14 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 12 Mrl: 14 Def: 17 Mrst: 11 Prec: 8 Enc: 5 AP: 22 Ambidextrous 3, Mounted Weapons: Katana, Sai, Hoof Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 80 Res: 35 ******************************** New Unit: RS Sword Saint (Base creature: RS Sword Saint) HP: 12 Str: 12 Prot: 1 Att: 14 Mrl: 14 Def: 15 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred Magic: Holy 2 Weapons: Nodachi Items: Robe Gold: 60 Res: 11 ******************************** New Unit: RS Geisha (Base creature: RS Geisha) HP: 9 Str: 9 Prot: 0 Att: 9 Mrl: 12 Def: 6 Mrst: 11 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 11 Seductress, Stealthy 40 Weapons: Tessen, Kansashi Gold: 60 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Shinobi (Base creature: RS Shinobi) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 11 Mrl: 10 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Spy, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Tanto, Blowgun Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 35 Res: 9 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja Assassin (Base creature: RS Ninja Assassin) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 12 Mrl: 12 Def: 13 Mrst: 11 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Assassin, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 50 Res: 8 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja of the Sacred Flame (Base creature: RS Ninja of the Sacred Flame) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 3 Att: 14 Mrl: 14 Def: 14 Mrst: 14 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Resistances: Fire: 100 Cold: 0 Shock: 0 Poison: 0 Assassin, Sacred, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2 Magic: Fire 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Enchanted Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 130 Res: 8 ******************************** New Unit: RS Death Ninja (Base creature: RS Death Ninja) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 12 Mrl: 13 Def: 13 Mrst: 12 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Assassin, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2, Fear -4 Magic: Death 1 Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 80 Res: 8 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja Master (Base creature: RS Ninja Master) HP: 10 Str: 11 Prot: 3 Att: 13 Mrl: 14 Def: 14 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Assassin, Stealthy 35, Ambidextrous 2 Magic: Fire 1, Random 1 Weapons: Ninja to, Ninja to, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 120 Res: 11 ******************************** New Unit: RS Wise Man (Base creature: RS Wise Man) HP: 7 Str: 8 Prot: 0 Att: 8 Mrl: 10 Def: 6 Mrst: 16 Prec: 9 Enc: 5 AP: 8 Amphibian 2 Magic: Water 2, Nature 1, Random 2 Weapons: Fist Gold: 220 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Himura Battosai (Base creature: RS Himura Battosai) HP: 11 Str: 12 Prot: 1 Att: 20 Mrl: 18 Def: 17 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 2 AP: 42 Hero, Assassin, Stealthy 20, Air Shield 50 Magic Quickness, Quickness 75 Weapons: Battosai no Katana Items: Robe, Godlike Speed ******************************** |
Re: CherryMod Thread
I would suggest removing the Wakizashi as even as "faked" secondary weapon from most samurai troops completely, because
- they simply weren't able to use both swords at once, and fought 1,5-handed using the Katana - therefore they didn't use the W. as some kind of "shield-substitute" to block or deflect incoming blows. By the way -did you make it some kind armor or shield. Making it a shield would result in a ridiculous arrow blocking ability (hey, we don't do Hongkong films here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), making it a piece of armor would have other consequences I'm not shure about (=> armor piercing, items/spells that destroy armor etc.). What stats are you using for the Wakizashi? Edited: Really cute idea for elite hero samurai .. or ninja turtles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Make the Wakizashi a shield. Give it non-poisonous thorns, if there's something like this possible within the limit of the current game engine. This way the hero would be able to deflect incoming arrows (Everyone knows they could cut them out of the air!) AND counter-attack (kind off) attacks with short weapons with the off-hand. (Dunno if this would be auto-hit, so maybe damage should be rather small). yours, Arralen [ January 08, 2004, 08:04: Message edited by: Arralen ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Prot 17 AND Defense 17 on a unit (the daimyo) ? And others I see have high protection AND high defense as well...
I am afraid this is just too powerful. It will need to be tested of course. On a commander, if it comes from good, pre-equiped items, and the price is right, it might be ok. Otherwise you are just creating cheap and easy SC material here, and almost impossible to kill armies... I am also concerned about 3 gold 1 ressource armies, especially the 3 gold. Even hogsburg militias are not that cheap, and yours can be recruited in any castle... Granted, they are the worse units I have yet to see, but there comes a point where stats don't matter, all you are looking for is the cheapest arrow catcher in sight, and you have just given a new meaning to the concept... |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Armor: def=2 hands=1 res=4 As a Last resort, I could take away all wakizashi stats but give it the special ability "Self Blood Sacrifice" so that seppukuing troops (RS does not "rout") at least increase your dominion=) Quote:
name=Katana dam=7 att=1 def=1 length=2 hands=1 hits=1 res=7 name=Sai dam=2 def=3 hands=1 hits=1 length=0 res=2 So he's getting a +3 mounted and +4 weapon defense bonus... his base defense is 13. Perhaps he should get a wakizashi instead of a sai? Anyway, he lacks a shield and lance (major negatives), is not sacred, but is otherwise similar to comparable units (except for his low prices, which I will raise). For comparison: New Unit: RS Daimyo (Base creature: RS Daimyo) HP: 14 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 12 Mrl: 14 Def: 17 Mrst: 11 Prec: 8 Enc: 5 AP: 22 Ambidextrous 3, Mounted Weapons: Katana, Sai, Hoof Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 80 Res: 35 ******************************** Ulm Black Lord (Base creature: Ulm Black Lord) HP: 17 Str: 14 Prot: 24 Att: 13 Mrl: 16 Def: 10 Mrst: 9 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 18 Mounted Weapons: Lance, Morningstar, Hoof Items: Full Plate of Ulm, Full Helmet, Kite Shield Gold: 130 Res: 70 ******************************** PY Serpent Lord (Base creature: PY Serpent Lord) HP: 15 Str: 13 Prot: 18 Att: 14 Mrl: 15 Def: 15 Mrst: 11 Prec: 8 Enc: 3 AP: 16 Mounted Weapons: Spear, Bite Items: Plate Hauberk, Helmet, Round Shield Gold: 130 Res: 58 ******************************** TC Prince General (Base creature: TC Prince General) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 15 Att: 14 Mrl: 16 Def: 16 Mrst: 12 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 22 Sacred, Mounted Weapons: Lance, Falchion, Hoof Items: Full Scale Mail, Helmet, Round Shield Gold: 150 Res: 42 ******************************** Man Knight of Avalon (Base creature: Man Knight of Avalon) HP: 14 Str: 12 Prot: 20 Att: 12 Mrl: 15 Def: 16 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 30 Mounted Weapons: Lance, Broad Sword, Hoof Items: Full Chain Mail, Full Helmet, Kite Shield Gold: 85 Res: 61 ******************************** MAR Paladin (Base creature: MAR Paladin) HP: 15 Str: 13 Prot: 20 Att: 13 Mrl: 16 Def: 14 Mrst: 12 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 20 Sacred, Mounted Weapons: Lance, Broad Sword, Hoof Items: Full Chain Mail, Full Helmet, Kite Shield Gold: 130 Res: 61 ******************************** . . . As far as peasants go. The price that I put in may be unbalanced (I hope not!). However... it is not unrealistic. Rather, Illwinter's prices for militia, slingers, and such trash units are very high in my opinion. An untrained militia pressed into the army and handed a spear does not cost 70% of training and equipping a heavy infantry unit. I plan to rebalance all the militia in the game to fall more into line with those numbers. And for ronin... like gladiators, they leave after a battle. Monks are powerful but expensive and limited by holy level (and low protection). I understand your concerns, and they may very well be justified. Currently, RS has the 3rd best melee units after Jotunheim and Abysia in the combat sim. But they are somewhat magically weak (level-2 water, level-2 fire, level-1 death, level-1 nature, and some randoms), average holy powers (level-3 max), and have no shields at all... which, I think, will make their armies incredibly vulnerable to crossbows. And their good troops are all very expensive. So, it's hard to say at this point... until I can actually see them on a battlefield. But thanks for brining the Daimyo to my attention, anyway - looks like the RS cavalry needs a bit of cost boosting. -Cherry [ January 08, 2004, 17:54: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Please take into consideration some of your resource costs Cherrypie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
The one I'd note is the 17 Defense 16 gold, 4 resource, stealth monks. While I'm a fan of stealth units. Just look at how much it costs to make a decent army of them initially. 320 Gold, 80 Resources = 20 17 Defense Monks 640 Gold, 160 Resources = 40 17 Defense Monks Normally it wouldn't matter, but they have low encumberance (3), full dual wielding with 3 attacks (remember each attack after the 1st on a unit lowers the defense of it by 1, so they don't need high att) and 17 defense that with the exception of a few nations and most certainly independants, would have a hard time to deal with. With that kind of resources you could have an army of 20 turn 1, and 2 turns later probably 20 more. And with such low initial cost their upkeep is low for being a stealth unit. Just something to consider on the stealth units. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Edit: Just noticed they were sacred too. So throw Quickness on them with a +4 Defense for a 9 Water blessing and they are very nearly Vans with a grillion attacks for 16 gold and 4 resources. Edit: I just noticed that you said in your post that RS units don't rout? At all? Or are you just going to make them have a high morale so that represents the amount of conviction they have towards their god? DO they just die if they retreat? Or am I reading more into that, (if so, that could be RS's total fall, not being able to rout would be a huge weakness vs fear units and terror. Ermor and C'tis would invariably make them run and hide under their fancy dresses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) [ January 08, 2004, 22:37: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
The high defense of some commanders are due to the +3 mounted bonus. The base defence of a knight of avalon is not 16, but 13 (+3 for the mount).
Our initial settings was something like this: Noncombattant 6 Untrained unit 8 Trained Soldier 10 Veteran 11 Elite 12 Rare special troops 13 Values of 14 - 16 are reserved for exeptional commanders and heroes. There might be exceptions of course. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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As for not routing... I would love to make RS units that rout commit seppuku if they pass a morale throw=) But actually, I was just kidding. I'll look into the monk costs - they may be too low. Kristoffer: Thanks for posting that chart! I'll use it as a guideline. -Cherry |
Re: CherryMod Thread
I'm thinking of potential exploitation and is in no way trying to say not to do them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif As you should know Cherrypie.
As for sacred, yes that can limit it. At maximum 10 a turn for 160 Gold, 40 Resources. Hrm. I am still wondering I'd have to do tests to look at it. I tried a similiar type of 'abuse' of bless effects with Battle Vestals which failed based on their stats. But this has a powerful set of stats and you may be able to make it work. We'll just have to see eh? I also like having multiple sacred units, though I don't know if it should be particularly common ones like monks. Edit: Flags are not stealthy. That is where my thinking is. It is relatively easy for a human sized unit (no special archer orders, except for closest, rearmost) to avoid archers, especially if you know how, so I wouldn't use that as an excuse, plus the fact that a Staff of Storms or less likely Arrow Fend can almost totally counter missile fire. [ January 09, 2004, 02:14: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Hmm... well there are a couple of solutions... I could, for example, make the unarmed monks sacred and the armed monks non-sacred, and since the majority of the defense comes from dual-wielding weapon-catching sais (3 def each), those monks would not be bless-abusable. "Holy Monks" and "Combat Monks", as it were. Alternately... since as it stands they ARE stealthy, ambidextrous, and sacred (half upkeep, let's not forget), I bumped the price from 16 to 22, added +2 resource cost (to reflect a lifetime of training), and bumped the (capitol-only) blind monk to 32. I also changed (made worse) a few of the armor stats, weakened the peasant (to more accurately reflect their ability to use a farm tool as a weapon) and militia, and lowered the attack of the medium and heavy samurai to reflect their encumbrance. These were because... well... RS was kind of dominating the combat sim in the Last test. Also, I wanted to ensure the units were in accordance with KO's guidelines. Here are the revised stats: New Unit: RS Peasant (Base creature: RS Peasant) HP: 7 Str: 7 Prot: 0 Att: 6 Mrl: 6 Def: 5 Mrst: 9 Prec: 9 Enc: 7 AP: 6 Weapons: Kama Items: Straw Hat Gold: 3 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Militia (Base creature: RS Militia) HP: 8 Str: 9 Prot: 4 Att: 8 Mrl: 7 Def: 8 Mrst: 9 Prec: 9 Enc: 5 AP: 8 Weapons: Te Yari Items: Hachi, Leather Cuirass Gold: 6 Res: 4 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ronin Thug Nunchaku (Base creature: RS Ronin Thug) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 7 Att: 11 Mrl: 9 Def: 10 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Nunchaku, Nunchaku Items: Hachi, Tatami Do Gold: 6 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ronin Thug Wakizashi (Base creature: RS Ronin Thug) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 7 Att: 11 Mrl: 9 Def: 12 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Wakizashi, Tanto Items: Hachi, Tatami Do Gold: 6 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ronin (Base creature: RS Ronin) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 11 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 10 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Haramaki Do Gold: 8 Res: 4 ******************************** New Unit: RS Yari Ashigaru (Base creature: RS Ashigaru) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 7 Att: 10 Mrl: 9 Def: 9 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Su Yari Items: Hachi, Tatami Do Gold: 9 Res: 9 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai Archer (Base creature: RS Samurai Archer) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 8 Att: 10 Mrl: 10 Def: 12 Mrst: 10 Prec: 11 Enc: 4 AP: 11 Weapons: Wakizashi, Yumi Items: Hachi, Mougami Do Gold: 10 Res: 14 ******************************** New Unit: RS Yari Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 10 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 10 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 10 Weapons: Su Yari Items: Hachi, Haramaki Do Gold: 12 Res: 14 ******************************** New Unit: RS Light Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 10 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 10 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Hachi, Haramaki Do Gold: 12 Res: 21 ******************************** New Unit: RS Nodachi Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 11 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 11 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 5 AP: 10 Weapons: Nodachi Items: Kabuto, Haramaki Do Gold: 12 Res: 24 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai (Base creature: RS Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 10 Prot: 14 Att: 10 Mrl: 11 Def: 12 Mrst: 10 Prec: 9 Enc: 6 AP: 9 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Nuinobe Do Gold: 13 Res: 29 ******************************** New Unit: RS Naginata Samurai (Base creature: RS Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 10 Prot: 14 Att: 10 Mrl: 11 Def: 9 Mrst: 10 Prec: 9 Enc: 6 AP: 9 Weapons: Naginata Items: Kabuto, Nuinobe Do Gold: 13 Res: 25 ******************************** New Unit: RS Heavy Samurai (Base creature: RS Heavy Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 10 Mrl: 12 Def: 11 Mrst: 10 Prec: 8 Enc: 7 AP: 8 Weapons: Katana Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 14 Res: 34 ******************************** New Unit: RS Heavy Naginata Samurai (Base creature: RS Heavy Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 10 Mrl: 12 Def: 8 Mrst: 10 Prec: 8 Enc: 7 AP: 8 Weapons: Naginata Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 14 Res: 30 ******************************** New Unit: RS Elite Samurai (Base creature: RS Elite Samurai) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 14 Att: 11 Mrl: 13 Def: 12 Mrst: 11 Prec: 10 Enc: 6 AP: 10 Ambidextrous 3 Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi Items: Kabuto, Nuinobe Do Gold: 16 Res: 29 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai Cavalry (Base creature: RS Samurai Cavalry) HP: 13 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 14 Mrst: 11 Prec: 8 Enc: 5 AP: 20 Mounted Weapons: Katana, Hoof Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 30 Res: 42 ******************************** New Unit: RS Horse Archer (Base creature: RS Horse Archer) HP: 12 Str: 11 Prot: 10 Att: 11 Mrl: 11 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 11 Enc: 4 AP: 24 Mounted Weapons: Te Yari, Daikyu, Hoof Items: Hachi, Haramaki Do Gold: 25 Res: 14 ******************************** New Unit: RS Blind Monk (Base creature: RS Blind Monk) HP: 9 Str: 10 Prot: 11 Att: 13 Mrl: 14 Def: 16 Mrst: 14 Prec: 4 Enc: 3 AP: 8 Sacred Weapons: Iron Fist, Iron Fist, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 32 Res: 12 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk (Base creature: RS Monk) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 13 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Knife Hand, Nerve Strike, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 22 Res: 3 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk Bo (Base creature: RS Monk) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 15 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Bo, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 22 Res: 3 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk Sai (Base creature: RS Monk) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 17 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Sai, Sai, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 22 Res: 6 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja (Base creature: RS Ninja) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 16 Mrst: 10 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Stealthy 20, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Sai, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 20 Res: 10 ******************************** New Unit: RS Monk Commander (Base creature: RS Monk Commander) HP: 10 Str: 11 Prot: 5 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 15 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 3 Magic: Holy 2 Weapons: Bo, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 50 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Shinto Master (Base creature: RS Shinto Master) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 1 Att: 11 Mrl: 14 Def: 15 Mrst: 15 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred Magic: Holy 3 Weapons: Bo, Kick Items: Robe Gold: 60 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Samurai Commander (Base creature: RS Samurai Commander) HP: 12 Str: 10 Prot: 17 Att: 12 Mrl: 13 Def: 11 Mrst: 11 Prec: 11 Enc: 7 AP: 9 Ambidextrous 3 Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 30 Res: 34 ******************************** New Unit: RS Mounted Commander (Base creature: RS Mounted Commander) HP: 13 Str: 10 Prot: 10 Att: 12 Mrl: 13 Def: 16 Mrst: 11 Prec: 12 Enc: 4 AP: 26 Mounted Weapons: Katana, Daikyu, Hoof Items: Wakizashi, Hachi, Haramaki Do Gold: 50 Res: 23 ******************************** New Unit: RS Daimyo (Base creature: RS Daimyo) HP: 14 Str: 11 Prot: 17 Att: 12 Mrl: 16 Def: 16 Mrst: 11 Prec: 8 Enc: 5 AP: 22 Ambidextrous 3, Mounted Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi, Hoof Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do Gold: 100 Res: 42 ******************************** New Unit: RS Sword Saint (Base creature: RS Sword Saint) HP: 12 Str: 12 Prot: 1 Att: 15 Mrl: 15 Def: 15 Mrst: 13 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Sacred Magic: Holy 2 Weapons: Nodachi Items: Robe Gold: 60 Res: 11 ******************************** New Unit: RS Geisha (Base creature: RS Geisha) HP: 9 Str: 9 Prot: 0 Att: 9 Mrl: 12 Def: 7 Mrst: 11 Prec: 10 Enc: 4 AP: 10 Seductress, Stealthy 40 Weapons: Tessen, Kansashi Gold: 60 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Shinobi (Base creature: RS Shinobi) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 11 Mrl: 10 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 13 Spy, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Tanto, Blowgun Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 35 Res: 9 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja Assassin (Base creature: RS Ninja Assassin) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 12 Mrl: 12 Def: 13 Mrst: 11 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 13 Assassin, Stealthy 25, Ambidextrous 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 50 Res: 8 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja of the Sacred Flame (Base creature: RS Ninja of the Sacred Flame) HP: 11 Str: 11 Prot: 3 Att: 14 Mrl: 14 Def: 14 Mrst: 14 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Resistances: Fire: 100 Cold: 0 Shock: 0 Poison: 0 Assassin, Sacred, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2 Magic: Fire 2 Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Enchanted Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 130 Res: 8 ******************************** New Unit: RS Death Ninja (Base creature: RS Death Ninja) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 3 Att: 12 Mrl: 13 Def: 13 Mrst: 12 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Assassin, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2, Fear -4 Magic: Death 1 Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 80 Res: 8 ******************************** New Unit: RS Ninja Master (Base creature: RS Ninja Master) HP: 10 Str: 11 Prot: 3 Att: 13 Mrl: 14 Def: 14 Mrst: 13 Prec: 11 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Assassin, Stealthy 35, Ambidextrous 2 Magic: Fire 1, Random 1 Weapons: Ninja to, Ninja to, Shuriken Items: Ninja Garb, Kote Gold: 120 Res: 11 ******************************** New Unit: RS Wise Man (Base creature: RS Wise Man) HP: 7 Str: 8 Prot: 0 Att: 8 Mrl: 10 Def: 6 Mrst: 16 Prec: 9 Enc: 5 AP: 8 Amphibian 2 Magic: Water 2, Nature 1, Random 2 Weapons: Fist Gold: 220 Res: 1 ******************************** New Unit: RS Himura Battosai (Base creature: RS Himura Battosai) HP: 11 Str: 12 Prot: 1 Att: 19 Mrl: 18 Def: 18 Mrst: 13 Prec: 10 Enc: 2 AP: 42 Hero, Assassin, Stealthy 20, Air Shield 50 Magic Quickness, Quickness 75 Weapons: Battosai no Katana Items: Robe, Godlike Speed ******************************** |
Re: CherryMod Thread
I must say the new costs seem rather better balanced... I have no problem with a race that get super units (giants do, after all, or Ulm) if the costs are balanced.
Regarding my concern about daimyo's stats, I didn't doubt that you arrived by them honstly, I ust feared they were too good for the price. I see you have adjusted the price up, which is good. By the way, how well do they do against, say, Ulm's Black Lord ? He is still quite a bit more expensive, which is normal (lance, shield, better prot), So I hope he kicks their *** http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I still have some concern regarding peasants. I am not saying their price doesn't reflect their value, because it does; but a 3 gold 1 ress unit could still lead to abuse, I fear. Even in an average castle, you could easily recruit 50 of them with that province's income. They'd make good units for a siege, perfect arrow fodder, they could easily soften the enemy quite a bit (by tiring his heavy infantry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). They would also make great AI deterrent (WOW, he's got HUGE armies, let's not attack). Perhaps they should leave after a fight like gladiators and your ronins ? |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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'RS Daimyo' versus 'Ulm Black Lord' in 40000 bouts. ~ Attacker's Deathmatch Statistics ~ Score: --------------------- 122 Wins: ---------------------- 12.26% Losses: -------------------- 87.75% Ties: ---------------------- .00% Timeouts: ------------------ .00% Kills per fresh team: ------ .14 Kills per battle: ---------- .13 Kills per round: ----------- .03 Losses per battle: --------- .88 Life expectancy (rounds): -- 6.04 Life expectancy (battles): - 1.06 Avg. Rounds Elapsed: ------- 5.74 Avg. Rounds to Win: -------- 8.91 Avg. Rounds to Lose: ------- 5.30 Avg. Rounds to Tie: -------- .00 ~ Attacker's Gauntlet Statistics ~ Score: --------------------- 354 Wins: ---------------------- 35.33% Losses: -------------------- 64.41% Ties: ---------------------- .00% Timeouts: ------------------ .27% Kills per fresh team: ------ .55 Kills per battle: ---------- .36 Kills per round: ----------- .08 Losses per battle: --------- .65 Life expectancy (rounds): -- 7.17 Life expectancy (battles): - 1.46 Avg. Rounds Elapsed: ------- 4.94 Avg. Rounds to Win: -------- 5.57 Avg. Rounds to Lose: ------- 4.57 Avg. Rounds to Tie: -------- .00 Well, you got your wish=) Note: the "kills per X" statistics may be off slightly... I'll have to examine it. Quote:
Anyway, tiring expensive troops are what peasants are for=) As for the castle defense concerns... on one hand, a defender was a defender, once in a castle... but on the other hand, yes, it would be a huge advantage to quickly and cheaply recruit that defense. And more importantly, recruit them for beseiging, which DOES seem a little unrealistic. I had not considered either one. I was trying to balance them versus lobo guards, but lobo guards are mindless and thus worthless for castle defense. To balance them for patrols (they'd be terrible) I gave them low movement, since patrol effectiveness is based on action points (or so I hear). Well, I'll have to give peasants more thought, especially since the concerns you mention cannot be tested in the combat sim. -Cherry [ January 09, 2004, 08:23: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
The main reason I think that militia have their cost at what it is, is to discourage patrolling. This is just a observation of my own, but it works for me. Early patrolling can be semi-exploitive but I don't think making it easier would unbalance the game because of the effects of patroling and taxing on population. Or maybe so that patrolling units arn't as prevelant to allow some stealth tactics.
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Re: CherryMod Thread
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The problem with peasant balance is that it is very difficult to test. Even if we could send, say, 90 peasants against 30 militias to balance them cost-wise, it would only balance them for AI use (which has no qualms against sending big armies of worthless troops). A player would use them differently... I myself am thinking of a screen of 25 peasants, in 5 squads of 5, forming a long front line the width of the battlefield, on attack closest. For the price of a good knight (the Ulm Version), I have protected my good troops against the first arrows volleys and any flanking movement, at least by the AI. Definitely woth it... I did the same thing with great success with Pythium, only with gladiators (who were a bit more expensive but could kick some serious *** had great moral). I am doing the same with Mictlan in my AAR, with slaves (who are free but have to be captured, which takes time) and the cheapest warriors (9 gold 2 res). My concern is not the power of the peasants, it is their availability and cheapness... Look at it this was : your race has cheap arrow fodder, medium priced average units, good heavy units, archers (though I don't know how good your bows are), good cavalry, the best stealth selection I have ever seen, good sacred units that are reasonbly priced (very rare !), decent mages including one with two random picks (very versatile), average priests, good commanders. None of these fields are, in itself, unbalancing. I can't point at any one (except maybe the peasants, and I am not sure how well they'll do in real condition) and say : THIS is too much. But still I wonder... Let me just give you one advice : far better to do a first release of the race that is too weak, than too strong. In the first case, people will be delighted when you make it better. In the second, it will be much hader to make them accept a tune-down. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Well, I wrote a little scale-rebalancing mod. Not that it makes them better, just more the way I feel they should feel.
Changes: Major event frequency changed from 15% of events to 12%. Order affects event frequency at 2% per scale, not 5%. I felt decoupling order and luck was very important. Luck/Misfortune increases events by 7% per scale, not 5%. This is to make up for reducing the event frequency with a high turmoil. Luck/Misfortune affect event polarity (good/bad) by 13% per scale, not 10%. Now the percentage of positive events is like this: Luck : probability an event is good 3 : 89 2 : 76 1 : 63 0 : 50 -1 : 37 -2 : 24 -3 : 11 Growth/death changed from 0.2% population change per scale to 0.3%. Before there was no reason to ever choose Growth 3. Capitol population by turn 30 (2.5 years): Original, 3 growth: 35900 Rebalanced, 3 growth: 39200 Original, 3 death: 25000 Rebalanced, 3 death: 22900 ...a minor change. I wish I could set a base of .1% growth at neutral scale. Now, I just need a host=) -Cherry P.S. In the meantime, if you want it, pm me with an email address. [ January 12, 2004, 21:31: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
If it has a cute banner we'll be glad to put the Saber scale mod on our page. Right after the trolls mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/mods.html |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Cute - I think I can manage that=)
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Re: CherryMod Thread
Two new immobile pretenders added:
New Unit: Tree of Life (Base creature: Tree of Life) HP: 220 Str: 20 Prot: 12 Att: 5 Mrl: 30 Def: 0 Mrst: 18 Prec: 5 Enc: 0 AP: 2 Reinvig: 0 Regen: 22 Resistances: Fire: -50 Cold: 0 Shock: 0 Poison: 0 God, Awe 2 Magic: Nature 3 ********************************* New Unit: Volcano Spirit (Base creature: Volcano Spirit) HP: 1000 Str: 20 Prot: 40 Att: 7 Mrl: 30 Def: 0 Mrst: 18 Prec: 10 Enc: 0 AP: 2 Resistances: Fire: 100 Cold: 0 Shock: 0 Poison: 100 God, Lifeless, Heat 20 Magic: Fire 2, Blood 1 Weapons: Lava Blob ********************************* The Tree of Life will be available to Man, Mictlan, Pangaea, Pythium, Arco, and Tien Chi. Animals flock to it constantly - like the Summon Animals spell, with the number per turn dependant on dominion strength. It also produces 100 supply. The Volcano Spirit is actually a volcano. It will be an option for Mictlan, Machaka, Pangaea, and Vanheim (cold places are volcanically active too!). Not Abysia, since they already have a volcano. Volcanoes like blood sacrifices, though... I wish there was a way to make it demand blood sacrifices, or else cause luck to drop drastically. Note that the volcano is virtually impervious to damage. I'll make additional paths cost 800 or so... I don't want it casting mistform or breath of winter. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
You didn't add the Design Points per cost. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
And maybe you want to add Immortal for the Tree? If/when they fix it so that you can't teleport/trapeze with immobile pretenders it shouldn't be an issue with him tooling around in your domain killing things instead of sitting at home and making animals. Perhaps more useful or thematic would be instead of animals (which are sort of 'bleh' but okay for low dominion) you could make fantastic creatures flock to in high dominion. Unicorns, Sprites, etc. Edit: I don't really know what to say about the Volcano Spirit. [ January 14, 2004, 05:20: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Or is the problem that it is too big? Sphynxes are big, but volcanoes are way bigger... So, alternately, I could have the volcano as a special capitol Blood site, and let the spirit possess a follower. Thus the physical representation would be an immortal human with magic paths, and strat move 0. Lots of primitives worshipped volcanoes (at least in movies) and this isn't really reflected in Dominions... [ January 14, 2004, 05:36: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Better yet, we should be able to set #basegrowth xx ... the basic growth (times 0.1%) #maxpopfac xx ... max. pop. in province, in multiples of the terrain-dependend standard number; times 0.1) Effective growth would be something like </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">(basegrowth+deathdeath*scale)*(Number of inhabitants/(maxpopfac*Standard Pop Number)) .eq. effgrowth .leq. (basegrowth+deathdeath*scale)</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hope I got that right .. I'm out of that business for quite some time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif What does it mean? Simply - every province has a "standard pop size", which is derived by the game engine from terrain and size. Normally this number is slightly randomized for use in the actual game. Now we set a "base growth" and a "maximum population factor". This means the pop may grow with a growth/death scale of "0" with diminishing returns as soon as the actual number exceeds the standard size, until the numbers is the "pop factor" times the "standard pop size", when growth stops. So a growth +3 will get you people faster, but not more in the (very) long run - pop will not grow endlessly. And you'll need "Death 1" to stop man from "being fruitful and rapidly multiplying" .. think this is much more realistic, and might even work better with the current game mechanics (esp. bad random events http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) A. edited: formula .. didn't get it right [ January 14, 2004, 06:59: Message edited by: Arralen ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Just the idea of the cycle of nature. Also it could cure itself of afflictions, which would be nice (though hopefuly it won't be able to get (m)any). Quote:
But I think it's because of their big noses. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And while the Sphynxes are big, mountains and volcanoes are bigger. Worship of a Volcano is all good. But I think the physical representation (Like a Giant but covered in flame) that leaps out of the crater when threatened would be... easier to handle in my mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: CherryMod Thread
New magic site:
Cliff of Legend. "Jump to test your faith in God" Level: Air 2 Entering the site gives the commander and all his followers a 50% chance of becoming sacred, and a 50% chance of instant death... modified by the local dominion strength or luck scale, possibly. Only non-flying units can enter. Sacred units always survive. The Forge of Masamune. "Enter to Reforge your Weapons" Level: Earth 3 Earth mages may enter the site with troops. This gives the troops permanent "Weapons of Sharpness", though it only alters 1 unit per Earth level per turn. The Sealed Mine Level: Astral 2 This gold mine was immensly productive... until a shaft went a bit too deep, unsealing the temple of an extinct subterranian race, honoring long-forgotten gods. The race and their gods may rest, but whatever caused their demise still lurks within... and so it was sealed by powerful human mages in the ancient past. Once discovered and unsealed, it produces 120 gold per turn, increases unrest by 10, and increases the local magic scale by 2. But periodically, horrors - or worse - will venture out... -Cherry |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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P.S. Would you mind making your equation 2 or 3 lines instead of 1? It makes the screen scroll horizontally as is=) -Cherry [ January 14, 2004, 06:02: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Re: CherryMod Thread
Just a side note.
There are plenty of historical and religous references of polythestic gods that are related to 'misfortune' or bad luck that people gave an offering to keep them at bay (or even just spirits). We have a Lady of Fortune, why not a Lady of Misfortune? (For the D&D Forgotten Realms crew, Black Bess type) I know its kind of crazy with our current standings of bad events, but maybe the Mistress of Misfortune would be something that could be looked into http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Re: CherryMod Thread
The Farm of Onion. "Fragrant, Sweet, Delicious and...atishooooooo!"
Level: Air 2 Entering the site gives the commander and all his followers a 50% chance heal they disease. 15% his troops will plagued by "Fright" -- Morale-4.(oh,not a battle fright...we may call it 'onion fright' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) This site also provides 50 food supplies. [ January 14, 2004, 06:56: Message edited by: void ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
New Magic Site:
Library of Elemental Magic "Enter to Study Magic" Level: Fire 3 (Ideally, L-3 in any elemental path) Any mage may enter. Every turn studying gives a slight chance of raising the mage's level in each elemental path, equal to 2.5/(empowerment cost). So, for example, a 0-Earth 1-Air 2-Fire 3-Water mage studying would have (each turn) a 5% chance of boosting Earth by 1, 8.3% for Air, 5.6% chance for Fire, and 4.2% for Water, and gain roughly .23 magic skill per turn. A theoretical level 4,4,4,4 mage would advance at a much slower .13/turn, or about 7.5 turns per advance (he'd have much better things to do). New Magic Site: Library of Sorcery "Enter to Study Magic" Level: Death 3 (Ideally, L-3 in any elemental path) Any mage may enter. Every turn studying gives a slight chance of raising the mage's level in each sorcery path, equal to 2.5/(empowerment cost). So, for example, a 0-Astral 1-Nature 2-Death 3-Blood mage studying would have (each turn) a 5% chance of boosting Astral by 1, 8.3% for Nature, 5.6% chance for Death, and 4.2% for Blood, and gain roughly .23 magic skill per turn. A theoretical level 4,4,4,4 mage would advance at a much slower .13/turn, or about 7.5 turns per advance (he'd have much better things to do). New Magic Site: Great Library Level: Astral 0 Provides a free lab. Decreases unrest by 5. Mages flock to the great library to peruse the unique tomes. Any mage researching in this province gets a +3 research bonus, independant of the drain scale. However, not all ancient secrets are meant to be learned, and there is a slight risk (8%) of becoming horror-marked while studying... Also, mages like their peace and quiet, and have been known to turn local agitators into frogs, which reduces unrest somewhat. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Saber...have you got these magic sites already done up? If so, where can i get them?
Thanks Chris |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Sorry, no site modding yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
This thread is just a compilation of what I plan to add when it is possible. However: 1) Some of it will never be possible unless the stuff is explicitly supported in the game code, at which point it really wouldn't be a 3rd party mod anymore. 2) Illwinter is more than welcome to snag anything in this thread and add it (or support for it) to Dominions II http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif -Cherry P.S. More alterations: Satyrs get 2 natural protection. Celestial Warriors changed from AAS to AWS. Full Scale Mail gets +1 def (to -2). It's REALLY bad otherwise. TC Full Leather Armor units get Full Linen Armor. Stats: name=Full_Leather_Armor aprot=6 def=-1 enc=1 res=3 name=Full_Linen_Armor aprot=6 enc=1 res=4 new=1 Vanheim Fay Boar made sacred. Does anyone actually use them? There's no reason they should demand so much gold=) Lorica Segmentata increased from 10 resources to 11 resources. Ctis Falchioneer given ambidextrous 3, not 2. Thoughts: Should Ulm be given +1 strength? Should Ulm Sappers get +1 HP? [ January 16, 2004, 20:14: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Re: CherryMod Thread
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Re: CherryMod Thread
The Celestial Masters are based upon the taoistic T'ien Shih (celestial masters), leaders of the taoistic cult during certain times. An important concept in taoism is wu wei (inaction/not doing).
Water being yielding and changing is the closest representation of wu wei I could come up with. Also water, according to Lao Tzu, is 'of all things most yielding and can overwhelm [rock] which is of all things most hard' (43) |
Re: CherryMod Thread
Uhm, why not just change the 2 Air Req to 2 Water? As that is the closest representation you could find, and the Astral is "Celestial"?
Or maybe change it to "Holy 3" ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This would limit it *Only* to CM's, no pretenders or anything could summon the Soldiers. Just a few thoughts. |
Re: CherryMod Thread
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Anyway- I think I'll change it to 1 air, 1 astral. I would go 1 air, 2 water, but I think that would force water gems to be used when casting. Additional change: Vanheim: All Vanheim troops get 25% cold resistance. They should have learned how to dress warmly, and evolved higher metabolisms, and so forth... Atlantis: Additional unit, "Shark Warrior". Base: Atlantian, Weapon: Sharktooth Mace, Equipment: Sharkskin Armor, Turtle Shell Shield Sharktooth Mace: A mace carved from the jawbone of a large shark, retaining the rows of razor-sharp teeth. dam=5 att=1 res=3 (no poison damage) Sharkskin Hauberk: A hauberk made from the rough hide of a large shark. aprot=5 enc=1 res=3 Machaka: Added "Machaka Raider". Base unit: Machakan Raider (Same stats as a Machakan, except: stealthy, 13 base AP, 11 morale, 11 gold) Equipment: Spear, Shortbow, Hide Shield Added "Raiding Party Leader" Base Unit: Same as Machaka Raider, but 25 gold, 10 leadership, and +1 att, def, mrl, and stealthy 5. Equipment: Same as Raider. Details: C:\Projects\Java\Dominions>java Unit at.shark.warrior mac.raider mac.raiding.par ty.leader New Unit: AT Shark Warrior (Base creature: Atlantian) HP: 12 Str: 11 Prot: 9 Att: 10 Mrl: 10 Def: 11 Mrst: 10 Prec: 8 Enc: 5 AP: 8 Weapons: Sharktooth Mace Items: Sharkskin Hauberk, Turtle Shell Shield Gold: 10 Res: 7 ********************************* New Unit: MAC Raider (Base creature: MAC Raider) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 2 Att: 10 Mrl: 11 Def: 12 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Stealthy 0 Weapons: Spear, Short Bow Items: Hide Shield Gold: 11 Res: 5 ********************************* New Unit: MAC Raiding Party Leader (Base creature: MAC Raiding Party Leader) HP: 10 Str: 10 Prot: 2 Att: 11 Mrl: 12 Def: 13 Mrst: 10 Prec: 10 Enc: 3 AP: 12 Stealthy 5 Weapons: Spear, Short Bow Items: Hide Shield Gold: 25 Res: 5 ********************************* C:\Projects\Java\Dominions>java Weapon Sharktooth.mace Weapon 'Sharktooth Mace' dam=5, hits=1, att=1, length=1, hands=1, res=3 new=1 C:\Projects\Java\Dominions>java Item sharkskin.cuirass sharkskin.hauberk full.sh arkskin.armor Item 'Sharkskin Cuirass' aprot=4, res=2 new=1 Item 'Sharkskin Hauberk' aprot=5, enc=1, res=3 new=1 Item 'Full Sharkskin Armor' aprot=7, def=-1, enc=2, res=5 new=1 P.S. Unarmored satyrs: Need to be cheaper. I'll adjust all satyr costs - maybe 7 gold minimum. Harpies may need cheapening too, but probably not. [ January 18, 2004, 17:58: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
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