Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

One of the unofficial reasons for canceling Enterprise is that UPN is catering to a specific demographic and Enterprise is not a show that lends itself well to their target audience.

I think Enterprise is simply too expensive for UPN given its nature to go with the cheaply produced shows they now run. It might have to do with viewer demographics, but in all honesty, it more likely than not has to do with the all might dollar.

Think about it, how many shows on UPN do you watch? I can only think of one, and that is, and soon to be was, Enterprise.

After Enterprise is gone, I will have no reason to watch the UPN. I simply dislike the shows they have, as they do not appeal to me in any way. I prefer my TV entertainment to have a level of education above that of an 8th grade mentality. I also prefer my entertainment to be a bit more diverse and not so heavily focused on one demographic as to exclude all others.

So UPN can kiss my big white puffy bottom as they will not be getting any viewing ratings from this kracker eating honky master.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

GRRR...

I'll add my contempt for UPN too!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

and the shows were starting to get better!!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I have a question. Here we don't have such things as UPN or Scifi channel or whatever, except on cable perhaps, which I don't have. There has been some talk about Enterprise perhaps being on another channel. Is it possible that even if such a thing could happen, would UPN ban it because they consider Enterprise theirs, even though they don't want it.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

The series is over as of this May. Paramount as already said that it will not continue producing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif So there will be no reviving the show. Its gone.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

The general and prevailing mindset of hollywood is that if it doesn't make money and get new fans, then cancel it, burn the sets, and sacrifice the producers to the critics.

Actually, the show can be revived - but by a different studio if paramount can sell the rights. This happened with Stargate when Showtime tried to cancel it. Sadly, Star-Trek licensing is insanely high. The only reason why we had Season 4 is because paramount had to drop the fees to CBS & UPN so low, it was embarassing. The only way it would sell is if the frandchise totally flopped or if the next Big science fiction film makes a huge fortune. Afterall, we wouldn't have more than the Original Star Trek if it wasn't for Star Wars.

Now if anyone has hopes for reviving it, they need to secure the sets & props or atleast the designs for all of that so it can be reconstructed at a later date.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

i'm sorry to hear enterprise was cancelled, i like it, over here i'm watching the season when the Xindi are building a weapon to destroy earth i don't know if it's the last season or not, and one question what the hell is UPN?

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

UPN= Unwhite People Network, just about every show you can hear someone going on about "Tha white man" and "Cracker, honky" so on and so forth.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Actually Showtime did not own the rights to Stargate, they bought the show. MGM owned, and still does, the rights to Stargate.

If Enterprise can find a new home on another network they ya it can be revived, but the chances of that happening are slim to non-exsistant.

As for Star Wars being why we have had more trek, well that is just a myth. Series II was already in production when Star Wars came out. After Star Wars Paramount decided to for go the new series in favor of a motion picture. Hense the title Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

The sets had already been built and the scripts written for Series II by the time Star Wars hit the screens.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

They should have made Enterprise as a syndicated series rather than a network one. It would have gotten more favourable time slots and a better overall audience...

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

They should have stopped frankenstiening the continueity.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

The question is why don't they do that now?

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Probably because they feel they don't need to go the syndication route anymore since they have thier own network.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

There has been talk of a series focusing on the exploits of a Klingon warship.

I ask why not a series focusingon Vulcans! No one would have ANY emotions, whatsoever! It would be hilarious!

But all joking aside, I think a show about the Romulans would be better then the Klingons. I just like the Romulans, not sure why.

-Kodos Out

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

There's no shortage of new concepts for the next series...

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comm...pe=voteresults

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

// No HTML so you all know where you're going. Fark.com is a satire website, adverts not safe for the sensitive.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I just watched the latest episode of Enterprise, "United", and was quite caught up in the ep. Ugh, if only these types of stories persisted earlier in the series!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I agree. To bad the producers were rudderless when they started the series. If they had a clear concept for an on going story line, i.e. used the suggestions of many a good fan, then the series would have been a lot more resilient to UPN's anti-white viewer tactics and would have survived and most likely thrived. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Yah baby, Gwar Trek!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I'm sorry to take this thread off-topic but anti-white viewer tactics? What do you mean by that?

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

There was talk, earlier,that UPN is only interested in appealing to black people, as shown by their plethora of african american programming. The idea was that an intellectual show mostly filled with white people was of no appeal to UPN's target audience, thus the lax in ratings.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Come on guys, it's got nothing to do at all with racial motivations. It's an expensive show to make and when the ratings weren't there initially - it got moved to a bad Friday night timeslot and add to that a massive split in the trek community about the series was enough to finish it off. To suggest otherwise is silly.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I tend to agree with CK about this. I think that the networks intended demographic simply turned off to many people as there was simply not enough programing that appealed to all audiances. In tuning out UPN, shows such as Enterprise could no longer draw in the revenue needed to keep themselves afloat.

Back in the early 90's Arseno Hall ran into the same problem. His show was revolutionary and a lot of fun to watch but when it began to cater more toward one specific audience, his rating tanked and the show went off the air.

Enterprise faced many hurtles as CK pointed out and it was a combination of all of these factors, UPN's targeted demographic simply was not interested in the show, and the excluded demographic would only tune in to watch Enterprise, and of that group there was a huge split so fewer and fewer would watch out of frustration over the shows pandering disregard for establish Trek history. (Sad as the show was actually very good and did not, for the most part, step on any toes.)

Oh well, what can you do except accept it?

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Well, we could all go marching down to UPN headquarters and demand they re-instate the show... And then to show our convictions we can fire a few shots across their bow...er...in front of their CEO's window http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Or we could be less fanatical, and just accept that which we can not change.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

God I am so fricking depressed over this. Just when the series was actually beginning to get interesting they go and cancel it. WTF? I mean W T F? are they doing this for?

The order to strike the sets in stage 8 and 9 was given and nearly 27 years of history is being broken into small peaces bound for the LA dump. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

When the revolution comes, my small list of must kills, just grew to include the names of those responsible for this blood vengeance-causing act.

There is some microscopic talk, mostly pathetic fan based rumors that there might be a movie based off of Enterprise dealing with the Romulan Conflict, but that is as likely to happen as my flying to the moon on a tooth pick.

It really just pains me to no end to think that we are witnessing the end of an era. Nearly 20 years of none stop star trek is coming to a close and I find myself weeping like an old women at the thought that I may never again see a new episode featuring the bridges of star trek ships. I am not ashamed to admit this and I know that I am not alone in my heartsick pain. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

No good will come of this, and that you can bank on. I sincerely hope that UPN goes belly up and that I at least live long enough to see it happen so I can gloat with the rest of the disenfranchised Star Trek fans.

I hope that the executives over at Paramount that made the call to can Enterprise suffer a horrible and painful death after living years in poverty and shame. They have no honor and they are worse than a Breen back stabber! They are lower than Targ s*** and I would not give them the gnawed on dog bones of my meal if they were starving to death and begging me.

They are Cardassian Vole fodder in my book and deserve to be spaced over a black hole!

Think about all those props, sets, costumes, etc just going to be tossed, auctioned off on EBay, or stored away until they are either turn to dust or are s*** canned by some lowly underling clueless dumb f*** like the SOB who through away the CD with all of the original B5 models on it over at Warner bros.

I tell you if I had Bill Gates $$ I would find a way to keep that show on the air if I had to pay the 1.5 million it cost per episode to do so. I mean where have we gone that brought us here? One of the few shows on TV that sci-fi fans enjoyed watching and its cut off at the knees at four years old.

Like I said, it should be classified as a crime and those responsible brought to justice. They should be hanged from a nearest light post with a sign around their punk arses that read "I Cancelled Star Trek." They should serve as a warning to the next ten generations of Paramount executives that we the fans will not tolerate such things!

God help me I don't know what I am going to do without my weekly fix of Enterprise. Hell I have been getting a weekly fix of Star Trek since I was 17 years old, well long before that with TOS but that does not count as it was cancelled before I was born. Since October of 87, say the year or so after voyager ended to the start of Enterprise, I have awaited with much anticipation my weekly fix of Star Trek.

Granted I would have loved to seen Voyager cancelled, but I was often told that any Star Trek is better than no Star Trek. And you know what, they were right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

We are at the predispose of a new dark age my friends. One that bares no kindness in its empty stare back at us. Its cold breath chills me to my core and sends my soul cowering in fear. What a dark day as befallen us.

I HATE YOU UPN!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Maybe, given a few years to think it over, they can come up with something new.

AT, it isn't personal. If the shows not making money, the company goes under. All those people have to eat.

I really hope the're not tearing up all those sets. Foolish decision. Could probably get double or more there value from collectors. I won't comment on the artistic and historical value, because then *I* might get angry.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

The choice to end the series was blamed on poor ratings but that is turning out to be a load of horse s*** and that is what realy is p***ing me off. They canned the series because, like so many others have posted, it no longer fits into the UPN's budge which is gear for the low end, enexpensive, and cheaply produced sit-com market.

Simply put, UPN is a low rent network and Enterprise was like the most expensive thing they owned, and instead of hocking or selling it, they broke it up into tiny little peaces and dumped it out the 10 story window of their getto.

Shows like Jag and B5 were canned by their first networks but picked up by other networks. UPN and ViaCom / Paramount decided that marketing Enterprise to another network would not work and therefore have not tried to do so. They want Enterprise shut down.

What really hurts is what they are doing to the sets. You should get angry Narf. You have to know that the bean counting yuppies down there could careless about the historical significance of what they have. They will sell it off on Ebay, trash can it, store it until it turns to dust then trash can it, or simply allow whats left to be disposed of by any means possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Hell they are going to rename the Gene Roddenburry building too and that is just sad. Just fricking completely destroughtingly sad.

I really should stop reading the Star Trek and other forums. They are just upsetting me.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I think I need to rent some old original series.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Goodness AT. So glum. You must be too young to remember the dark ages 20 years ago before TNG hit the air. Having no Trek show on the air is tough, but you'll get through it. And on the bright side, you've got 5 times as much material to work with in reruns, and you've got VCR's and DVD's, which weren't really common back then. Not to mention several other decent Sci-fi shows on the air. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Yeah I seriously am feeling the pain, I mean they are not just cancelling the show but are destroying the sets, tearing down history and erasing Gene Rodenberry's legacy, it's just heart wrenching, and I want all those jerks linched.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

To be honest though there really is no reason to keep the sets. They are mostly wood and paper and paint. Those things aren't exactly built to be durable. They are built to look a certain way on film. Sets get damaged and rebuilt all the time during filming precisely because they are so fragile. Storing them would be difficult and unnecesary. And they would look like crap after a while in storage anyway and wouldn't be usable for anything. They can be recreated from photographic records which can be stored much more easily and permanently. They are doing just that this season in the episode about the Terran Empire. They rebuilt the Constitution class (TOS Enterprise was a constitution class) bridge of the U.S.S Defiant from the TOS. From the photos I've seen it looks great. Just like the original.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Well CK I don't know if you've watched UPN in it's early days or even in recent years except for ENT but I can certainly understand where the "anti-white" feeling is coming from, UPN said in it's early days that they saught to be a second BET (Black EntertainmentTelevision for those who are unfamiliar with the channel) and 90% of their shows would have been considered racist if it had been white folks talking about black folks, the way these black folks were talking about white people. They had all black casts except for the "inept or goofy stupid" white guy or girl. And they had humor barely above an 8th grade education.

Even these days the vast majority of UPNs shows are casted either entirely or mostly of African American persons, granted they have eased up on their "The White Devil" style talk but their views that "white folks are boring dorks" is still a prominant feature of several shows. They've also made some of their shows "smarter" now a days.

Their targeted demograph is clearly not white people, UPNs only shows with prominant white casts are lucky to survive 1 or 2 seasons so in a way we are lucky ENT lasted 4 because UPN has shown a remarkable lack of patience when it comes to giving "Diversified" shows a chance.


And UPN has stated that they are "unoficially" not happy with the demograph of enterprise, which imho sounds like they are not happy with the fact that the bulk of the cast is as follows:

Scott Bakula: White (or should I say European American these days?)
Conner Trinner: White
Dominic Keating: White
Anthony Montgomery: African American
Linda Park: Korean American
Jolene Blalock: Mixed Race
John Billingsly: White

Notice the issue by UPN's "Targeted Demograph"?

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

The reason why you've seen the newer networks like UPN and the WB feature more urban comedies etc., is because that is an under-represented market in the U.S. and it offers a better chance for them to pick up market share - you could easily make the opposite "racial" claim of what you are saying with the big networks like NBC or CBS that they do the exact opposite with their "all-white" shows.

The failure of Enterprise has nothing to do with what you are saying. If you are to blame UPN, it's for poor series promotion and direction. Also be sure to blame fellow trekkies too, of which much damage was done.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

All you can really hope for is another network to pick it up. Or maybe Fox will start another series like with Klingons or Orions Pirates or something of that nature. I've always felt glum when my favorite shows were cancelled. It all started with U.F.O. then Space 1999, Buck Rogers, Logans Run (yeah, I liked it). It happens, then something good comes around again. When SG-1 goes though I expect to check into the Betty Ford Clinic. I think your also going to see more Sci-Fi mini series instead of regualr series. Still hoping of "Ring World".

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I said I could understand where their views on the fact UPN is rather racially singular being partially responsible for ENT downfall, it really is a factor, though not the only one.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I'm betting Spike and SciFi start a bidding war for syndication rights.

What got me pissed was when UPN said "We bid Enterprise a warm goodbye..."
That sounds a bit like "Good bye, good riddens, now get the hell out before we loose the dogs!"

I think a lot what hurt this series too was advertising, and program blocking. UPN didn't do half the work needed to make good program blocks like other networks. You got one sci-fi show surrounded by ethnic comedies and repeative-situation-sitcoms on UPN. Honestly, how many people can name UPN's daily lineup from memory? How many can do the same for Fox or WB?

Then advertising. I think I heard about 300 Sound-FX driven ads for Enterprise on the radio (most likely they just took the audio track from the TV ads instead of making real radio ads) and maybe 3 broadcast Ads and maybe 5 print ads. That would be like advertising a space empires to a group of woodsmen and ignoreing the sci-fi gaming community.

Enterprise is one of those productions that are plagued from the first day or pre-production. Like the original Battlestar Galactica or any other series that held promise and then exploded in everyone's collective faces.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Some simple facts:

• $1.6 million per episode
• Currently 3 million viewership, down from 10-12 million first season
• Bad timeslot, against shows of same genre etc, dividing "tune-in" audience
• Poor advertising
• Divisions in the fan base

Even a really good 4th season couldn't save this ship.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Kwok is of coure 100% correct in his post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif It all boils down to cold hard cash.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

This is the curse of TV sci-fi from the old days of Trek TOS and the original Battlesta Galactica. The need for fancy sets, makeup and special effects makes them way more expensive then the typical hour drama. The audience that is interested in sci-fi in any form is a fraction of the overall TV viewing audience. Revenue is based on ratings, but even decent ratings that would mean renewal for a sitcom or a character driven drama aren't good enough for a show with a scifi budget. Higher costs and lower potential for profits, it's really a wonder that any sci-fi show makes it.

This is one of the reasons Stargate has lasted as long as it has. Mostly planetary settings and almost all the aliens are humans too. Atlantis is a big depature from that formula, but Stargate has been around long enough now to have established a solid fan base. Even so I suspect the new series is not nearly as profitable as the original.

I am hopeful that as the computer technology advances and comes down in price, we can break out of this cycle and some sci-fi series that don't get spectacular ratings right off the bat can last long enough to develop an audience. I'd like to see some variety too. How about a sci-fi comedy series? I think there's an audience for it, if you could keep the costs down.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

So, if we make a show based on SE5 combat replays and voiceovers, we should be rolling in profitability...

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Well, that would cetainly keep costs down. But to be profitable you still have to have some revenues. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Although, it might be fun to make a quicktime sci-fi movie like that. We could interlace scenes of starfury with overhead views from the Se4 combat replay. And for dialog you could make up some chesey animation using the race pics. I'll start on the storyboards for "Rise of the Rhemoraz Society". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

The idea that we could export the combat in an AVI format so we could edit it would be a must have option for SEV. Included are multiple angles and such. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

We could make our own mini-series. The Combat Wars!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

And Reality shows will never end....

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

This week! Atrocities, Geo, Fyron and SJ compete to make the biggest and best combat sequence using nothing but PPBs and Meson Blasters! The winner gains a crucial immunity as we get down to the wire, and will be critical for deciding who gets voted off the PBW server during saturday's 2-hour special!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

In addition, as a random hazard, an eight-foot mouse throwing tactical nuclear grenades!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

And for the intermission between hours, we're pleased to feature Renegade 13 chasing said mouse around with a very pointy pitchfork!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

It isn't the computers that are the problem - it's the artists that use the computers. A recent desktop, purchased for $2000 US, has all the processing power and RAM needed to do some very high-quality rendering in a reasonable period of time (medium-quality renderings in real time). If one doesn't do it for you, get 10 or 100, and link them together in a beowolf cluster; even purchasing them fresh for EVERY EPISODE, you won't hit even 1/4 the per episode budget for Enterprise listed earlier. However, consider: of those who play SEIV, how many can produce quality, rendered shipsets from scratch? Three? Four? How long does it take them to make one? How long would it take them to make one that would allow you to zoom in to any part of the ship's hull to the point where it is STILL realistic and has good lighting, shadowing, and reflection effects off the nuts & bolts? Now consider that every episode where they show damage has to have that section completely redesigned to show the internals and damaged components, and every time they show damage being dealt they need to make several stages of the damage in the same way, and tell the machine how to transition between, for each instance of damage-dealing. It isn't the machine time that's the problem - it's the time of the artists involved that run the machines.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Which is why we need a computer with the type of capability of a ST holodeck.

See Renegade 13 realise his 'pitchfork' is actually four pythons! See R13 get rushed to the hospital! Thrills! Chills! And at the end, the winner gets ten million dollar bills!

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

Oooo ah ah, that stings! Good thing I have a natural resistance to venom. See R13 make a miraculous recovery, and take his horrible revenge upon the 8 foot tall mouse known as Narf! Who will have the strength, the grit, the determination to win this final round! Tune in tomorrow to find out, on channel....wait, this is getting a little too representative of reality tv. Ick.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

There are (at least) two major technical problems and two social problems with that:
1) A programming problem - you can convince a computer to take a library object, run some specified portion of it's vertices and surfaces through an algorythm, and render the result, but the variety of point-manipulation algorythms needed, and the methods of specifying what segment, what manipulation, and what variables in a reasonably intuitive fasion would take ages to program, as ALL of that must come from at least one very intelligent human mind (probably hundreds or thousands).
2) A library problem - sure, the holodec can build highly detailed re-creations of scenes - but, of necessity, it's pulling things out of a library somewhere - the user tells the computer he wants a nature scene, and the computer picks one from a library, or generates one based on a template and componentes from a library (a component may, in turn, be a template with components pulled by some algorythm out of a library - recursive to whatever finite degree is desired) - but fundamentally, it's pulling stuff out of a truly enormous (and incredibly well-indexed) object library. This library must be built before a Star Treck Holodeck ease rendering system can be implemented.
3) A copyright problem - you can take a chunk of data, and manipulate it through some algorythm, but unless you have an agreement with the owner of the original data chunk specifying otherwise, you can't legally distribut the altered work willy-nilly. So, even after you have dealt with 1 and 2, you have a big legal mess to deal with before you can use the easy system in an mass-media fashion.
4) A repetition issue - Have you ever noticed how games of the same basic type from the same company tend to have the same basic feel to their appearence? That's mainly because the game companies tends to re-use their engines; it's even common for a company to liscense it's engine to other companies - so you will sometimes see many games of the same nature from different companies that have the same feel to their appearence. If you don't completely replace the library (step 2) and algorytms (step 1) fairly often, the easy-made shows built from the engine will start to have a repetitive look to them, and your audience will become tired of it, eventually shunning any show made with the easy-create engine and library. A very, VERY big library of algorythms and objects, well-used random factors and style/genre variables will alleviate the problem, but will ultimately just delay the point at which they all start looking alike. With the number of times the holodec is featured in ST, this isn't an issue. With the number of times it would be used to make many different rendered components for shows, it would be - in short order (a few years), most probably. For something used to entertain the crew on a long voyage, this isn't an issue, as THEY are the creators, and can change things to suit their individual preferences, puttting as much work in as needful to make things match; for something used to produce mass entertainment, this is a very big issue.

Re: OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN
 

I make bike videos all the time. The resources needed to store that footage digitally is astounding. To render a four minute video takes about 20 minutes. To render a video without lock ups or fall out is a roll of the dice with XP and or any windows based PC.