Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

Wyverns are fantastic and I personally like Vine Ogres. 1 Nature Gem for 2-3 Ogres per cast (or more depending on your equipment) that are enough of a threat that they have to be targeted because of their high HP and decent damage; but not expensive gem wise.

I have never had a Tartarian Giant die on me yet because he was decaying; they just need some blush. They don't radiate disease AFAIK.

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It was just a figure of speech. They are undead Versions of some pretenders, but otherwise have no downsides, aside from the fact they usually come with afflictions. They usually appear as normal units, not commanders, and that's what the "years of imprisonment have damaged the mind of dead god" in their description means.

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

I think that damaged mind clause might refer to their tendency to be about 50% feebleminded. Of course if you can gift of reason them you can probably gift of health or get a fairy queen to help you out. Or you could just use them as really elite troops. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's true, but I had them coming with various other afflictions, and even a few who came as commanders without me having to cast gift of reason on them.

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Using "Summon Animals" with Turmoil-3/Luck-3 and dominion of 7+ in my home province I got "lions/giant spiders/bears only" several times - that's 13 units with hp20+ for only 20 nature gems.

Vine Ogres are much cheaper, but don't have any attack or defense to speak of.

A.

[ December 14, 2003, 09:16: Message edited by: Arralen ]

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

Vine Ogre

HP 53 (Size 3)
Str 18
Prot 5
Att 12 (11, 11)
Mor 50
Def 3
MR 5
Pre 0
Enc 0
Move 2/12

Fist/Fist.

For 1 Nature Gem that is very nice. A decent attack skill isn't needed; as the fact he has 18 strength with 2 attacks (fist/fist) so he'll miss semi-often but when he does it will punch through armor/protection. Most Size 3 creatures, get swarmed by smaller units, so they are going to have a lower defense regardless, and I consider the 3 just a 'wth', sort of thrown in there, but it doesn't do anything and might as well be 0 for all the usefulness it provides. Their true weakness is against magic, I doubt a Vine Ogre could resist anything thrown at them, and I mean ANYTHING in all seriousness. That's just another 'wth' statistic.

Vine Ogres are great for smashing a flank or cavalry or Size 3 Things that try to trample, or just a wall of time. 53 HP takes some beat'n to get through so noone can use land units to rush through a core or flank to beat to archers or whatever you are protecting.

The primary issue with Vine Ogres is their "It requires a good mage, to cast who'd rather be out bust'n heads" and to be really cost effective it requires a mage with a few gems invested in him with some items to make it work.

I don't think I've ever summoned any vine creature (Ogre or man) with a Pretender (even the Druid), simply because they are so expendable.

Maybe if they add a synergetic "Bloom" or "Blossom" spell to some school that gives them perma-sleeptouch or a Sleep Cloud Aura (or allergies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) or "Burgeoning" that acts like the Pangaea Carrion Woods Unholy spells, that give Regeneration, MR, Protection, whatever I would consider it more of an investment and less of fodder.

OR a higher end Vine Creature like a Vine Thicket or Thicket Ogre or something. Maybe others use the druid's special ability and I am just not one of them; but he in my book, is only useful for stealth.

[ December 14, 2003, 12:03: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

IIRC, Ivy king with Treelord's staff can summon 5 or 6 Ogres for 1 gem. That can be handy if there is nothing better to do at the moment (I remember from that game that I often had only 1 gem left, and research was pretty much done).

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

Vaetti hag with a nature pick is hardly an elite mage, and neither is a druid. And dryads, bards and even daughters of avalon could be used. And a five-gem Vine crown is not very difficult to make.

Oh, does anyone know what creatures you summon in different terrains using Summon Animals? I have summoned giant spiders (NOT machaka ones!), black hawks, lions and wolves in many places, bears and boars in forests and some kind of snakes at swamps... I think I got bears from mountains, but am not sure. Has anyone researched this? Oh, and if luck affects the quality (as it does for crossbreeds) Summon Animals becomes number one mass summon spell for turmoil-heavy Pangaea, in the start at least.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't realize you meant vine ogres... Still, nature-2 mages can cast it with a 10-gem item they can forge, and more than 100 hps for 2 gems is quite good.

[ December 14, 2003, 12:16: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Druids are great for it if you want to spend that many gems doing it (Which isn't unreasonable, but 15+1 per cast is alot in my book, but it depends on the incomes and game and everything)

Think about Mothers/Daughters is they are Capital only. I build only Crones at the capital and they are also capital only and as many as I can; ADDICTED TO CRONES am I http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If I was ever crazy enough to put a Treelord Staff on a noncombat/ritual mage I'd put it on a Bard though; and a crown too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But 40 Gems is too much for 2 extra fodder. Better and more effective spells/summons for that.

[ December 14, 2003, 12:54: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: What are the strongest summons?
 

Related but different question. What about mid level summons? You know, things that your normally recruited mages can pump out in decent numbers. What do you find very effective? Summer Lions comes to mind, but I have not played around with this too much, so I am interested in your thoughts.