Re: PBW status
 

I could be in trouble with both NGC 4 and 5 then, because I went to do my turns Last night, and it was down, and now I'm at work... and won't be home until 4:30pm PST
which, judging by what you've wrote, is after the deadline.

Any chance of ULPU, at least for a couple extra hours? Or a couple hour delay on turn due, that would work.

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I thought it was a problem with the forum database table? Is someone working on it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The forum database is messed up and causing the numerous "500 errors" people are seeing when they try to add people to games, etc. We have also been getting reports form people that PBW is "spamming" them, sending new turn files over and over, dozens of times. This is not affecting everyone, and I don't think it's related to the forum problem. This is the reason for the down time this weekend as Georgig was trying to get it working. He ended up taking the server down since he could not get it to stop emailing. I have brought the server back up now after turning the email send functions off.

If you are keeping score, PBW no longer recevieves email, sends email, the forums don't work, the graphic UI is hosed (Because of the forum problem), and you get various errors whenever you try to add players to games(also because of the forum problem). The lack of email is going to make it very difficult for new people to join.

Things are pretty bad. Are we working on it? I wish I could say we are. Mostly what we are doing is poking about becaus enone if us really understands how the code and database functions.

I will be sending the server to Tesco in a few weeks. He's going to take over hosting it, and hopefully he will be abel to get a handle on the numerous problems. If not perhaps he can start from scratch and make a new, better PBW.

Geoschmo

[ June 06, 2004, 18:14: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you are still working 12 hours from now, then you are really working long shifts...

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you are still working 12 hours from now, then you are really working long shifts... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm on a 22 hour pass now.
I can wait some more before executing.
I will kick oogs tomorrow.

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I thought it was a problem with the forum database table? Is someone working on it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I will be sending the server to Tesco in a few weeks. He's going to take over hosting it, and hopefully he will be abel to get a handle on the numerous problems. If not perhaps he can start from scratch and make a new, better PBW.

Geoschmo </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Poor Simon... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , just when he was going to reduce his time a bit. So, Geo, I guess you've already attempted to get some of the original guys who helped build PBW to take a look, huh?

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One of these doctors you really really hope to never ever meet near the end of his shift when lying as a helpless victim on an operation table...?

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One of these doctors you really really hope to never ever meet near the end of his shift when lying as a helpless victim on an operation table...? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I quite agree, I'm not as clever and quick at the end of these passes as I belive I am in the beginning, hopefully we will end with these long passes within a year or two, one good thing that comes from the EU.

Never, ever seek hospital care at nights, if you do refuse surgery until morning if possible!!

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Okay. What language(s) is the buggy code written in? As I said, I don't have much money, but I do have plenty of time. Maybe I can help figure something out.

Re: PBW status
 

slynky this is why i am reducing time in other areas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, considering your concerns about playing, RL, etc., it's great of you to offer to do this. Really great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not an EU fan, but I definitely agree on this one. Really silly to expect such superhuman capacities from a doctor, it's neither good for the doctors nor for the patients - and still, only few people consider it abnormal when doctors are working without sleep for such a long time while any truck driver doing so would be thrown into jail for doing this.

Re: PBW status
 

What is it coded in?

Re: PBW status
 

I'm willing to help. I'm more of an IT generalist than a programmer, but I get to play around with scripting every now and then.

In fact, there are an awful lot of us who do or can program, who might be able to contribute to dealing with this. PBW or something similar is and will be central to this community of Online SEIV players. How much fun is SEV going to be if PBW is no longer working and it becomes hard to find a multi-player game?

Perhaps we need to get organised.

Mark

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">full agreement. we should found an "developer" community of PBW (or make the source "open"). If i get the access to the code, i'll help.

counter-arguments ???

Re: PBW status
 

dito!

Re: PBW status
 

Double ditto.

I'm not really working in the field right now (i.e. I don't have a job), but I do have a B.S. in Computer Science. I can work in Perl (which is made for this kind of stuff), C++, or Pascal.

Let me know if I can be of some help. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW status
 

If we can agree to a decent langauge (like PHP, maybe with Javascript), count me in. C++ is really not something for an amateur multi-developer project, and I only know little of Pearl, preferring PHP.

Re: PBW status
 

Hmmm. I've never been exposed to PHP. The good thing about Perl is that you can embed the HTML right in the script, and get data from the webpage in a single application. It's a very powerful language. If you've seen it, you know that the syntax is very close to C++.

Something like the Forums shouldn't be horribly complicated to implement. (famous Last words http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif )

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">PHP is a slightly more powerful language than Perl. It can definitely do anything that Perl can do, and is also similar in syntax to C++ (and Perl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Re: PBW status
 

The problem is going to be that all of the Languages can do what all of the Languages can do. Some just do parts easier than others.

IMHO I think C# is great for developers and Perl is a great language for SysAdmins to pick up on, I would personaly rate PHP/MySQL as being more built around the idea of making and managing web sites. The professional book crowd refer to them as LAMP or AMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) and its getting hard to find a book now on just one without the others being included.

But thats just my opinion. Another way to go on this might be to find out who is willing to help and what their backgrounds are in. Better to go with the skills for something that 'works ok' than trying to shift into a 'better' language which bogs the project down?

It could also be modular. The part which handles the turn trasfers might work better in another language than the one that updates webpages. They should be able to operate with each other and have no problems.

-- (sig line) "Id rather hire someone who knew 3 'dead' Languages than someone who was an expert in just one"

Re: PBW status
 

PHP/mySQL is definitely more standard for web applications than Pearl now, having at least the same power and is easy to learn too. Java is nice too, but more complex to learn for beginners.
Pure C++ is great for professional developing, but it requires very good style and education to programm in a way where you can read the code after half a year and still recognize what it does - or should do. Most amateurish C++ can be thrown away if it ever malfunctions and the guy writing the original application isn't available any more. Yes, you CAN do unreadable programs in any language, but most of the time it takes effort where in C++ it takes effort to do clear programming.

Re: PBW status
 

The PBW code is currently in Java. The server uses Apache and Tomcat for servlet control and has a MySql database.

As far as making the Java code open-source, that's not our call. I can ask Admiral about it. It's his code.

Tesco is going to be taking over the hosting of the server, and he has mentioned to me the possibility of working on a next-generation PBW that might be in a different language. As far as the possibility of making that an open-source project, that sounds interesting to me, but I am not a programmer. Either way it would have to be his call.

Geoschmo

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i would prefer perl too. this language is a very powerfull tool, which is used in many successfull applications (many code examples for us).

Pro:
scripting language (usability)
simple to learn
many code libraries

Contra:
scripting language (performance)

Re: PBW status
 

I think this discussion is really important, but we are on the "PBW status" thread. As it has a useful service function, we ought not to spam it too much.

So I'm posting a new topic. See you all there.

Mark

Re: PBW status
 

Is it possible to reset the server.
i e start with a blank database.
Everybody signs in again and we set up the games anew.

Can it be tested on a clean disk with only the server software and no data: no turnfiles, no shipsets, empty SQL database, no Users, no forums... etc

If we restarted it could be convenient to have 20 dummy players that hosts can use to fill in the empty slots when rebuilding the games at pbw, and then kick when the game is restarted.
If the server works with blank data, give everyone 2-3 weeks to save e-mail adresses and player names etc and then reset.


Just an idea, it might be a bad idea, but still an idea.

[ June 08, 2004, 16:07: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: PBW status
 

Personally, I'd much rather not see that as the course of action, simply because I think many games would just cease, hosts would be unavailable, etc...I reccomend from now on game hosts backup the turn files each turn (on their local machines). That way if the server goes totally on the fritz then they can run the games as PBEM until the server is back Online. I plan on doing this from now on for the games I am hosting. NOTE: I am knocking on wood right now, to avoid jinxing the darn thing by even bringing up the topic. I'm just playing it safe...

Alarik

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Re: PBW status
 

Right now no one can sign up to PBW as new players.
Mails doesn't go out.
passwords aren't being sent out.
Yes, some games would cease and soem would take time to get going again.
Perhaps two servers running paralell, a new with the same software but no data, and the old one as it is but moved to another adress?

Re: PBW status
 

Your idea isn't a bad one Ruatha, it's actually something like what I am going to attempt. But it's not the end, only a step in the process of rebuilding the server to hopefully get things working the way they are supposed to. The hardest part of the whole things I think is going to be getting the basic template of the server setup with no data. Once I get there it should be no problem to copy the current user, mod and game data into the places it belongs. It should not be neccesary to make everybody start from scratch and setup all there games over again. Although, if it becomes neccesary that would be certainly preferable to no PBW at all.

Re: PBW status
 

Is it the database that is corrupted? Or the code that accesses it? I have copies of the old code if that will help for comparison. And maybe bits of the database can be extracted. In any case it should be copied before a new one is started.

And I guess maybe a scheduled copy-to-backup needs to be included in the code (this Version or new project)

Re: PBW status
 

Part of the problem is we really don't know if it's the database or not. That's one of the things that this rebuild process will help to determine.

Re: PBW status
 

A quick script to access the database and read out the key-fields should help clarify. Im guessing the key is the login? If you read out a 100 logins and then the next few are garbage, its the database. Actualy I think I would check then end of it first. Someone may have put in characters it didnt like. Deleting the Last dozen records might fix it.

Was there changes recently to the signup scrupt? What does linux show as a change date? Going to the directory with the java scripts and running a
ls -blart
will have the newest changed files at the very end of the display.

Re: PBW status
 

Being a host for a dozen Koth games I hope we won't restart the server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW status
 

A ray of hope in PBW's dark night... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

According to my new "Teach Yourself MySQL" book, there's a MySQL utility that can diagnose a corrupt database and repair it.

I'll send Geo instructions on how to run this as soon as I get it typed up.

The first thing the repair chapter advises is "don't panic". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was going to suggest using phpMyAdmin to figure out the problem with MySQL if there is any. But of course PHP will need to be installed on the server for it to work. It is a great utility and makes handling databases in MySQL a snap. I use it here at work to manage our website databases and others.

Re: PBW status
 

It turns out that the new user signup function on PBW is not merely hampered like I thought, it's alltogether broken. No Users will be able to sign up for PBW until we can get that fixed. Exsisting Users should still be able to join and play games, with the workarounds for the known issues.

I am in the middle of finals, so I really don't have time for this unfortunatly. I am also going out of town this weekend. When I get back I'll have a week before my next classes get rolling. I will try my best to get some of this stuff working at that point.

Muddle through as best you can. If you have any friends wanting to signup, please give them our appologies.

Geoschmo

Re: PBW status
 

We are going to be down for a bit today. Bear with us. A little problem we have to try and work out.

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Since it's coming up on 6 or 7 hours unavailable, is there an estimate for "a bit today"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: PBW status
 

All day at least. Maybe late tonight if I get lucky. If not we may be down till Sunday or so.

Re: PBW status
 

Sunday - no typo? 4 days is a little more than "a bit today" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Sounds very severe - can you use any help/hints/anything? Should the emergency replacement servers be started?

Re: PBW status
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Let's all hope Geo gets lucky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .
My wife is wondering why I'm doing so much work around the house, hell mabey I might get lucky. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If Geo gets lucky, you won't... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: PBW status
 

Is PBW off line right now? 4 pm PST, June 9th

Re: PBW status
 

9:25 PM EST, still down... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

EDIT - new sig

[ June 10, 2004, 05:28: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: PBW status
 

Man I need the site to stop going down or i'll die

Toro

Re: PBW status
 

No changes yet... I'm going into withdrawal.

11pm PST (2am EST)

Re: PBW status
 

I have an outstanding turn to work on while the server is done. I shall have to ration it, doing a little at a time. Thanks to the nice 1.91 feature, I can save it and come back to it.

I'll move some ships tonight and tomorrow morning. Tomorrow night I will update my designs.

Then I will fill my queues.

And if the server is not up still, I will analyze every system to see what can be done to optimize production.

Maybe I'll get more sleep too.

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, you win, where must we send the cheques ?
How many zeros on it ?
Maybe you'd prefer cash instead ?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: PBW status
 

12:30 PM EDT, Saturday, June 10
Still inaccessable.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Toro, you're going to die when the site goes up too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: PBW status
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's Saturday already?!

Re: PBW status
 

Oops, I don't why I did that. That's pretty bad. I've been one day off before, but two? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Make that Thursday, June 10.

[ June 10, 2004, 17:53: Message edited by: Cipher7071 ]