Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Hmm, seems like Marignon is doing really good. He hired Victor's Villains too? Wow! j/k I'm not doing that good.

When I bought Victor and his villains I knew not to expect anything big, at all, but for so cheap I couldn't resist.

And 4 celebs in the HOF? Wonder how that 4th "champion" got in there, with 0 kills no less? Hmmm...

But at least I finally found some gems.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

I feel like im doing pretty good. My only downside I feel is my rate of expanding, I got a good army, a great research, good dominion good income. I feel like im doing pretty good.

Just a question for all you pros. It seems to me the best setup for a GOd is an SC so you can take provinces really fast starting on the first few turns, and latter you can use an army as well.

Using an SC god would allow you to get a jumpstart on your provinces, and allow you to get more provinces then your enemy. Are SC gods a staple of multiplayer games?

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

A SC can serve several purposes, but most can do some fighting early in the game. There are two brands of early-game province-takers: the physical Pretender, relying on protection and brawn, and the magical Pretender, relying on spells for defence. The physical Pretender can start taking provinces on turn 1, while the magical Pretender will need to wait for a few turns to research Alteration 2, and Alteration 3 to safely take more heavily defended provinces.

Some Pretenders will have a harder time fighting however: most notably, the rainbow mage (not uncommon for Ulm), with several paths at low level, and the immobile Pretender (a somewhat common setup for very high levels of magic, useful for powerful bless effects). Rainbow mages *can* take provinces, if you put enough points in the main paths of expansion, but it is quite risky, as the death of a Rainbow mage is a very hard blow (while going from Water 9 to Water 8 is nothing to write home about). If you have the points to spare, you could take a Vampire Queen: with her immortality, she will be much safer and will be able to do some mischief.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Here are a few topics that might help with Pretender designs for early expansion:

• 10 Turn Challenge!
• help please with pretender SC's for early expansion
• Looking for help with SC pretenders

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Thanks for the links, sushiboat. They should help (in my next game, of course). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

But, is it important to get a jumpstart on takeing provinces? Or is it okay to start taking provinces on indie 9 from turns 5+ and a province a turn/2 turns? Or is it really import to expand fast?

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

And the answer is: It depends!

If you can scout and establish a peaceful border with a neighbor or two, you can expand at your leisure to the edges of your agreed border. Sometimes, it can be easy to establish a peaceful boundary equal to the current dominion ownership, as that usually spreads radially out in all directions from your home until you meet an enemy dominion.

If you expand too fast, your neighbors can become alarmed and gang up on you. This happens a lot, actually, for it is easy to form a temporary alliance with several people for the sole purpose of knocking down the leader. It is often problematic to be first in too many stats, especially provinces. The army size graph tends to be mostly useless because it counts a Van or High Seraph as the exact same thing as it does a wimpy soulless.

If you are a nation that does not need much gold income but relies on spells and summons (like Pangaea CW), then site searching in your owned provinces can often be more important than expanding rapidly.

If you expand too slowly, your neighbors will think you weak and might gang up to carve out your lands among themselves. Or a more powerful neighbor may simply try to assimilate your territory if you are deemed too small.

On the typical level 9 indy setting, you are usually fine to wait until Turn 5 before expanding. After that, you want to take around 2 provinces every 3 turns to stay abreast of the world. But there will always be those nations who took an SC Pretender and out-expand you if you do this.

Ultimately, the key to any strategy is scouting plus diplomacy. You MUST know where your nearest neighbors are located and which direction they are expanding. You also want to know who is on the other sides of your nearest neighbors so you know whom to ask to join your side in war when it comes to that.

Every time I take a neutral province, I look to see if a scout can be recruited there. When I find one, I pump out at least half a dozen of those guys and send them on their way.

You never want to be totally isolationist and suddenly see that 3 nations are attacking you on the exact same turn from 3 different directions!

One thing to keep in mind is that taking a province adjacent to an enemy capitol is nearly always considered a hostile act of war, so you darn sure better know where your neighbors capitols are located.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Victor is actually a very potent merc when used correctly. Keep in mind that him and his whole crew are stealthy so they can sneak into enemy territory and snoop around until they find a weak/important province and then attack it. Then immediately Sneak away into the forests or whatnot before (even insta-response magical teams) can attack them. This tactic is *particularly powerful* against nations with crappy PD, like Man and Machaka, both of whom are playing in this game, I believe.

The HOF is organized based on experience, not kills. It just looks like Kills, usually, because kills give you lots of experience. On a side note, I believe dying makes you lose exp (for immortals or pretenders?).

So, you can have cases where a unit can be in the HOF but have no kills. For example I played one game where my starting commander survived to turn 50 or so and participated in a great many battles but always to just cast Fanaticism, so he was about 1/3 - 1/2 way up the HOF just on experience.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

As panther said, it depends. My advice is just that you have to look at the conditions of the game and choose what is best for you.

Is the map small, where you are likely to fight early and every province will be life or death for you empire? If so, you probably want a hardcore fighting SC.

Is the game larger/sparsely populated that fighting other players can be delayed? Then you may want to trade off early pretender power for a Mage type to site-search and for a platform to cast the mega late-game spells of your choosing.

Is your nation very powerful militarily, such that you can rely on your armies alone for initial expansion? Then maybe you can go with a Mage or perhaps a Titan or one of the other half-and-half pretenders.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

My son and I once figured this out. Your HoF position is approximately:
Experience + Kills*2 + Deaths*7

You actually move UP in the HoF for dying, which can happen often on immortal pretenders.

Somebody ought to check in this game to see if this formula holds exactly or just approximately.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

My empire consists of wastelands devoid of income and gems, in case people are planning to invade me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

You and me both. So if I send over my 14 starving guys led by a commander with only half a suit of armor, you think we could have an interesting battle?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

The formula is consistent with the rankings at the moment in this game.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Deaths Kills Exp Formula

1 79 112 277
0 54 92 200
0 37 47 121
0 1 86 88
1 0 71 78
0 4 69 77
1 5 53 70
0 0 70 70
1 0 61 68
1 4 51 66
0 12 36 60
0 0 56 56
0 18 20 56
0 9 33 51
0 0 50 50</pre><hr />
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...HoF_Turn19.jpg

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Hmmm... I'm looking at these tactics now (for creating a Pretender) for my next game. And I can see why it depends. So many choices, so few games...

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

So Victor and his merry band of Villains are good for something like that? And here I was looking for some cheap flack for helping me take a cavalry province.

Or am I doing that? Maybe, maybe not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Turn 20

The province tally is: Machaka 20, Ermor 19, Marignon 14, Pythium 11, Man 11, Jotunheim 11, Arcosephale 10, and Pangaea 9. Obscuro is open for bidding.

Alneyan played substitute for Pythium this turn. A big thanks to him for keeping the game moving without hurting the missing player more than necessary!

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Yeah victor is weak, but he has a niche use. Particularly vs nations with vulernable PD. If you need chaff for a heavy cav province just recruit up some militia or slingers or something.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Turn 20

Everything going it merry way.

I have some difficult decisions to make.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Turn 20 - the villains did a great job of... firing arrows at the Indy provinces. Now I just need to find 4 magic sites in one province that gives me 5 or 6 total gem income per turn. Ok, I'll stop dreaming. -sigh-

Can't wait for me to get my 5th hero in the HOF. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Only 6 more posts and I'm no longer a private. Woohoo!!

Speaking of gem income, what's the most income you've seen from one province, not counting your home/starting province? In one SP game I think it was 4 gems per turn, 2 magic sites with 2 gem income each. Have people gotten lucky and seen more like 6 or 7? Just checking.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

There is that one site which gives 15 sites alone... Of course, it's a rare site. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Has anyone heard from Pythium? Everybody appears to have sent in their turns, except him, and I haven't heard from them for the past few days.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

BigDaddy's (Pythium) last post on the forums was on 5/16. He probably got busy with something else.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

I'm not going to be able to continue this game. I hope for the fun of all that you can find a substitute.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Pythium is now looking for a new ruler.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

There is a limit of 4 magic sites per province. In a game I am in with 75% magic sites, I have 3 provinces with more gem income than my capitol.

At 50% sites, there is supposed to be an average of 2 sites per Plains and Sea province. On average, there is less in Farm Lands and more in Mountains and Forests.

I have attached a file which you will find quite educational on the subject!

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Any chance you could play Pythium's turn again, at least so we can do one more turn, hopefully giving enough time to find a replacement for the next turn? Just curious.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

I have done just that, and the next turn has run... two hours ago or so.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Awesome, can't wait to get home from work then. Thanks!

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

I think the most ive seen was 4 gems. Possibly if you spammed a 75% map with arcashic you would get more.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif My first Thug just got killed by a bunch of barbs. I need needed higher protection.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

My scout watched. It was sad.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

hehehe That's funny. I have only had 1 scout catch a battle, and that was someone taking an Indy province, I can't remember who.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

My scout watched it too, that little bugger died in the blink of an eye.
That should teach you not to use a Firbolg with a Charcoal Shield, Firebrand, Black Steel Helmet, Robe of Shadows, Boots of The Messenger, Pendant of Luck and Amulet of Resilience against a barbarian province http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I really wonder how you excpeted him to survive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

I'll take pythium if its open http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

It's a play-by-mail game, so I will need a mail address (or simply mail me at the address indicated in the first post of the thread).

On another note, the game is at turn 20, so it is a spot that became open in the course of play; it's not a game that has not started yet.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

&lt;scribbling furiously on parchment&gt;

...cancel Firbolg rush...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Turn 21

Everything going its merry way.

My luck is strange this game.

A scout runs into my patrollers. Risks of the job and all.


Barbarians are always dangerous because they can do lots of damage.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

The Firbolg was suggested to me as a thug, and I did not relize he had 2 base protection, I probaly should have gave him different armor.
O well, its not that big of a loss, I got lots of gems.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Turn 21

The province tally is: Machaka 22, Ermor 20, Marignon 15, Pythium 12, Jotunheim 12, Man 11, Arcosephale 11, and Pangaea 10. Arco, Pangaea, and Machaka found gems. Ermor is now tied with Arco for second place in research. Man rehired Obscuro. The Armored Fist of God, Dagan the Renegade Sage, Victor's Villains, and Brave Breakers are open for bidding.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

On the topic of gem producing sites, I just found a site called "Fire Prison" in one of my games. +4F Income AND 20Enchantment Bonus.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Even more so I just found a site with a 6gem income!!!

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

You should really give the coordinates for those provinces. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif When you find those sites giving a 50% Conjuration bonus or 50% Blood bonus, or those Construction sites, keep *very* quiet about it.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

It was not in this game, it was in a single player game.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

You are so heartless. Do you imagine how disappointed your neighbours are? Tsk, tsk, tsk. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

In my first post I say "In one of my games" In my second post I also was refering to that game.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Turn 22

Somebody tried to assasinate one of my newly bought commanders. I'll let it slide this time.

The assasin retreated the first turn of combat, I thought that wasn't supposed to happen.

Not much to report for the rest, except that I've yet to find a magic site with a site searching spell.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Well, after a rousing campaign of kicking the crap out of the dwellers of the wastes...well...let's see if there are any decent territories left...

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Marignon please stop creating unrest in my provinces.

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

Me neither, my site searching spells are not finding anything.

Are there even any Indy provinces left? Is it all out war time yet? Any skirmishes that I'm missing? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: PBEM game: The first step (Open)
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Unrest? Me?

What about that fort that just appeared right on my border?