Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

What is everybody's suggestion for using the Hydras? I personally don't like them that much because of the poison cloud they have killing my own troops. Any tips on how to use them effectively?

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

I never figured out a way to really use them either. They are too expensive.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

They're great with armies of undead summons. I think Pythium can skeleton spam EA?

Jazzepi

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Pythium is a MA nation only. And no - Pythium casters don't have death paths.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Sadface http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Jazzepi

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Jazz;
You're thinking of Sauromatia, perhaps.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Maybe if they had more protection/defence I'd consider using them.

I think part of the problem is that Pythium already has great ground troops - both the heavy Praetorian Guard and the more mobile legionaries are great units. Unless you have money to burn it seems always wiser to invest in the heavy troops rather than a vulnerable giant monster that is difficult to use/exploit.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

1) Recruit an independant mage who has nature magic
2) Get the mage to build some snake rings
3) Equip the snake rings on some theugs, and perhaps robes of missile protection.
4) Place each of these theugs amongst a group of 3 hydras.
5) Script -> body ethereal , body ethereal, body ethereal
6) Tell the Hydras to hold and attack
7) If needed back up the hydras with archers, and arch theugs casting lightning or other evocations. ( melee troops are pointless.)


End result: Devastation. A small group of hydras can take down entire armies.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

That is a different on Darrel. I'm by no means an expert in this game but I'm no newbie either and I've just never really found a great use for them. This was pretty much the responce I expected when I posted though. Thanks everyone for the input.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Now, if we are to get Serpent Cult and its sacred Hydras back for LA...

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Bandar you can also use the Hydras as a "scorched earth" sort of attack. Buy like 5-8 of the small ones. Arrange them in a line on the battlefield with orders to Hold & Attack. Then have all the leadership flee the battle so that the hydras rout. The trick being that they still spew poison clouds as they rout so the enemy will walk right through it as they chase them.

Its a tricky tactic - you need to position the line and the timing of the rout just right based on the speed of the enemy army you are attacking.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

they are great in the late game. play pyth with order and growth to make sure you get loads of cash, then give them to a mage with a serpent ring on, and enough gear to cast fog warriors. fog warrior hydras eat through everything.

also my second expansion army usually consists of 10 hydras and that hydra tamer guy you can recruit. put the hydras in groups of 5 up front and the commander in the back scripted to holdx5 and stay behind troops.

I've had this army eat up a knights of the chalice province (with heavy losses, but still.)

it cuts through lesser indes like a hot knife through butter.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

How about having a hydra tamer on holdx5 at the rear of the battlefield and hydras in front set to guard commander ? The hydra will retreat until they reach the tamer, leaving a trail of poison clouds in their wake. Enemy troops trying to catch them up will take damage without even reaching them for a few turns, them the hydras can shred whatever is left of the army.

Maybe not a great tactic against archers though. Unless they use up all their arrows, they won't follow the hydras.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

that might work too, never tried it.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Its basically the same as my suggestion above. The problem I see with it is that immediate retreat will cause thier poison clouds to dissipate before all by the fastest cavalry could reach them. You need to Hold for a little while to let the enemy catch up to you.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

I find that Hydras are a powerful unit. If expanding with national units they probably are your best option since most your troops are so resource heavy. On the other hand they cost lots of gold and will delay construction of more castles. Still I would probably recruit 5-15 early on to get a good amount of provinces. In an early war hydra only armies is unstoppable by most armies.

The hatchlings on the other hand are to weak. They die on droves and still cost you 75 gold a piece.

In general hydra armies are easy to use. Put them on the front and use no other melee units.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

When trying MA pythium starts I found expansion with neutral production scales and no awake pretender not so nice.. the start army looses troops pretty fast. And a 2nd army is not created that fast. A hydra army as 2nd is to expensive really I used 3 once and that was to vulnerable.

Personally I think hydra's are not ideal, for early expansion the troops are too.. I think an awake pretender might be best.. I can figure even going for more sloth to pay for it and try getting a 2nd or 3th castle soon.

MA pythium might be a great nation (so I've heard) but early game isn't that easy for me atm

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

I passed on Hydras. I thought 240gold and 16 upkeep apiece was a little expensive. Basic units like hastati and alae legionaries are decent enough for expansion. They're well-enough armoured and shielded that they're virtually arrow-proof and don't take much damage in melee. Quite good enough to trounce most indies.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

well all those legionaires need a lot in production scale if you want to expand with them.
And after the first dozen turns that production scale is less used.

What pretender set-up and early expansion strat did you use then?

I tried a keeping the 4 earth and 4 nature that was recommended somewhere since the idea behind it so prevent disease HP losses or something and the reinvig sounded usefull. For this and to have a SC after a few turns I was busy with a dormant cyclops... but then noticed my early expansion wasn't all that.

If you get prod scales with that then you can't have an awake pretender AND you need quite some other negative scales if you want a reasonable dominion (I'm thinking MP here and I usually figure 6 dominion minimum for MP)

So I'm interested in your strat.. in anyones strat even...

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Obviously I can't test a whole game anymore before my next MP game.. but is that natue 4 that important? I keep wondering how much advantage it will give me.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Try an awake Cyclops with earth 9 Dom 5, O3 S2 Heat 1 Mis1 Mag1.

I think that angels are sacred, isn't it? this way you have a late game bless for thugs/Scs an early SC for indies and expansion and a wondefrul bless for mages. Use original army plus some turn 0 recruits and Pretender to expand. Third expansion army is just 3 hydras and early fort to overcome sloth 3 and then just forts. If you need troops fast use hydras.

Don't use this on aquarium pls http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Hydras are good at 2 things-killing elephants and discouraging a rush. In my present mp game, i bought 5 hydras early since i had a sleeping pretender. They are good for expansion, and give me peace of mind from aggressive neighbors before my pretender awakes.

4n is crucial, as it prevents your 380 gold mages from dying of old age.

It is my 1st mp game playing pythium, but my Mother of Serpents, sleeping with nature, earth, death, and air worked well. Went early for mother oak, then later goh.

The Mother of Serpents with these paths and decebt gear is a beast, and killed a gor tartarian fairly easily that ported in next to my capital. And at the time, she was my only unit that could fight tartarians. And i think she could have killed 3-4 of them alone.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Xietor.. what was your whole pretender set-up then...

I figure a lot of sloth for else I don't see how you bought all that magic..

if you go all hydra at start you can do sloth-3 I figure but 5 hydra's means either no mages first turns or only a 2nd expansion army around turn 4-5

and dormant or imprisoned?

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

Sleeping-I did not trust evilhomer, Velusion, and other aggressive players enough to take an imprisoned pretender!

My scales were 3 order, 1 sloth, 2 heat, 2 growth, 1 magic.

4n,4e, 1d, 2a. But I traded for gems and by the time i had researched soul vortex had empowered to 3d. Eventually empowered air as well, as I like at least 3a for mirror image.

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

so all that air magic just to make your mage cast alteration spells as SC? Quite expensive just for that... and then empowering...

and empower when you can cast the spell just for lower fatigue?

no other options to get a SC? or to do stuff with gear instead of empowering en get spells and stuff?

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

hmmm and dom 8 mis 2 or dom 7 mis 1?

and you prefer 2 growth/ 2 heat above 1 growth/ 1 heat?

well going hydra seems a bit making for a slow start but it allows for a dormant pretender and sloth. The mother of serpents is the first pretender I'd choose from the titan.. healing 100 is very nice... but does she beat the cyclops I wonder. A N4 E4 cyclops allows for better scales too, Magic 3 for example...

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

btw do you think 5 hydra's can take

heavy cav?
barbs?
more than 50 enemies in general?

and did you just buy hydra's or did you still buy mages (so a late 2nd army?)

Re: Ah ha, a MA Pythium question...
 

my game is still ongoing, so i cannot tell you much more. Suffice to say i always want my pretender to be able to travel, so that means air or s magic. 6 dominion.

I do not like misfortune, so i actually never take it. Though many good players do.

I tend to mix my hydras with slingers, so that takes care of barbarians. And as long as i position my hydras right, so that they get the 1st attack on mounted units, i have good success.

I buy mages and hydras, but i do not expand until turn 2. i take 2 growth because to afford my hydras i set taxes high and patrol. And I like my capital to recover the lost population.