Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Here is the development log for Illwinter's upcoming game:

http://jaffa.illwinter.com/coe3/coe3progress.html

It is not very verbose, but with some luck you might find something interesting there. I probably should add some more screenshots and features to the CoE3 page, but that will have to be next time.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thanks.

It doesn't need to be very verbose. That's plenty good for following progress of the development in a general sort of way and should give some idea of the situation for those who are familiar with CoE2.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

What? a programmer be verbose? Ive never known it to happen :)
Not sure if posting a dev page is a good idea but we will see

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

It's very cool. Thank you.

Doppelganger sounds real nice :)

"* You do not conquer allied squares if they have troops in them"
What, would alliances be supported?

"* F2 for player overview" - overview is always a good idea :)

When would pre-order start? :D

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

They are, indeed...

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

OMG. One can only dream that one day dom-IV would have that...

Hey, one can only dream that one day dom-IV would be made by IW.

Here's to IW crafting many many game in the future :cheers:

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Alliances are supported by creating "teams" at the start of the game.
Your armies do not attack each other. You can share a location. Your army can hide in one of his castles (but not recruit there). You can participate together in an attack. And you can team with the AI.

On the other hand:
You cannot create a team in mid-game, and you cannot dissolve a team. No backstabbing other than maybe taking some of his resources if he didnt leave at least one unit there.

I guess you COULD do outside-the-game agreements for Dom3 style NAPs, alliances, and backstabs. But they also will have Dom3 style of non-sharing a location without your units attacking each other

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The other limitations are a maximum of 8 players per map and a maximum of 6 teams. Eight players even on an enormous maps gets cramped fast.

AIs can also be teamed with each other.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There has been a ton of work done on CoE3 since this thread was last bumped.

New features, new graphics, balance fixes and we're also going to get a map editor with the game. A scriptable map editor at that, meaning that e.g. events can be scripted to happen in various ways under various conditions.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

This is sound very good, I am really looking forward to it. The team aspect in particular would be a lot of fun, I think.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

"* Long right click on citadel to recruit there."
Cool. Any chance to add this (or other UI goodies) to a dom patch?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Latest update lists "serial codes". Does that mean we're getting close?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Not yet. There is still much to do, such as testing the map editor and writing documentation for it, ironing out bugs from both editor and game etc etc. Legacy graphics also need to be replaced.

When the version numbers get to the 2.9x range then we'll see.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The comparisons of CoE3 with Dom3 are interesting.

The TEAM abilities in CoE3 are great. You can see each others explored areas, you can both attack in a shared combat, you can sit inside of each others fortresses and towers, you can exchange sites.

The AI is smarter. There are separate AIs for each nation which allows some very specific instructions in the programming instead of general ones.

The AI even makes a pretty good ally for a TEAM. And certain nations pair up with other nations very nicely in ways that allow overlapping areas and best use of individual nations abilities without competing for the same resources.

The MAP commands for CoE3 include triggers which allow creating maps for scenarios. And the maps are text based which will make them much smaller for downloads.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'm curious what decisions have to made when it comes to combat. For instance, with Dominions you decide the composition of your forces, the equipment for commanders, unit placement and a five turn script. The interaction of these factors makes for an interesting and challenging game - the drawback is that managing all this late game can be painful. I know that COE3 sacrifices some complexity in favor of streamlining play but if I'm about to face an opponent what are the things I need to take into account? If my units don't match up favorably with his is there something I can do to compensate for that?

And on a completely different note, is KO still involved with IW? Seems like it's been a few years since I've seen him post.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes, KO is still very much involved. Some of the new graphics he has made for CoE3 are absolutely awesome. For example, I have NEVER seen as good a rendition of a gryphon as the new CoE3 graphic is.

As far as combat orders etc are concerned, there is no Dom3 style micromanagement. You cannot arrange troops in your army, the arrangement is automatic.

Mages cannot be scripted the same way as Dom3, but you can choose what spells they memorize from among the ones they know. From those spells, a random useful one will be cast every round. If no useful spell exists, the caster will do nothing (e.g. a pyromancer who knows the spells Flames, Fire Burst, Fireball and Incinerate and is going up against a fire elemental, which is fire immune, would cast nothing at all).

If your units don't match up favorably against an enemy, your magic can often function as an equalizer and the more types of mages or other spellcasters you have, the more chances you have.

The CoE3 manual has a fairly detailed section on combat, short though it is.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The MM reductions sounds awesome. For the record, if ever there would be dom IV I would absolutely love to see it streamlines as well.

Currently playing dom you need to pay a painful price in MM to enjoy the game. Late game dom is a nightmare.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

What sort of modding capability is is going to have? You've mentioned map making but nothing about mods.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

As of the present, there is no modding capability. There may or may not be modding capability later, but we do not know yet. Other than one mention in passing, it has not been discussed because there is still so much work to do with getting all the basics done.

For example, there are still lots of legacy graphics and all of the classes don't even have a description yet.

However, knowing Johan, all hope should not be abandoned by any means. With regard to any possible future addition of modding, patience is required.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Not having moddability of at LEAST the level of Dom3 would be a huge dissapointment.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

That's somewhat disturbing, since by far the best way to have the modding available is to build it in from the start.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

We only said that we dont know. Being Johan Im sure that the hooks are going in this time as he works if he plans to offer modding. But the game is no where near to the point that modding would be in the testing phase.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Like Gandalf said, the game is not yet at a point where modding could be tested.

One of the most loudly voiced complaints about Dom3 was that the AI was no challenge once you learned the game and that it was a one-trick pony. CoE3 has a lot more work in that regard and the different classes do not play according to the same playbook when under AI control. That is not a trivial amount of work and it shows.

The multiplayer network side is not yet finished and most certainly not documented enough for players to use. That absolutely needs to come first. Single player and hotseat MP work quite well already, but the network MP is the single most important aspect that needs focus right now.

Again, remember that Johan is the only one coding this and he is doing it on his free time since he has a day job. With that fact in mind, the progress has been rapid.

As I said in my previous post, patience is required. We know from Dom3 already that Johan has an interest in modding and Kristoffer as well. Therefore it is not unreasonable to entertain the possibility of CoE3 being moddable, but available time and priorities right now mean we don't have any word.

Keep in mind also that Johan and Kristoffer play their cards close to their chest as they have always done. It is not unusual to have something change quite a bit between one incremental version or the next or having a full-fledged new feature dropped on us without any advance warning.

That is the reason that the best and most accurate thing we can tell you is "It has been mentioned once in passing, but right now we don't know."

If modding is added, you can expect an immediate announcement in this thread.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

You mentioned legacy sprites, are all these going to be updated? One of the things that I think drags dom3's quality down is all the old sprites still in use when the new ones are so much nicer.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes, they are. When we're talking about CoE3, "legacy sprite" means sprites from CoE2. If you download that and take it for a spin, you will have a whole different idea of contrast between just how much better the new stuff looks.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Is the turn resolution going to work like it does for CoE2? Or will that work differently?

And will we still have to hit that Q button to end turns? (I can't tell you how many times I ended my turn when I only wanted to buy more troops.)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The user interface is different, the turn resolution less so. Combat takes place at the end of turn.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

New version out for those who are curious about how we are progressing...
http://jaffa.illwinter.com/coe3/coe3progress.html

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

when can we pre-order?- And what perk would come with the pre-order? :D

An XL Gelantineous Cube T-Shirt? ;)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Im not sure that I want to look more like a gelatinous cube than I already do :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Anticipation. We have gotten a new version to test about every 15 days. A new one is about due. And there are many things on the progress page that I cant wait to play with.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

will it come out before christmas?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Well, since there are 15 more versions to get to 3.0 and since versions are occurring about every two week, it looks like at least 7 months before it comes out :(

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

New versions have come out in as little as three days, but the last three or four versions have had a longer time between them because many more new features have been added each time.

Some of those have been fairly big changes, such as the addition of the Dwarf Queen class in 2.84, lots of new spells (and more to come, no doubt), AI improvements (which is a fairly big deal, since each of the 17 classes has a separately programmed AI) and entirely new mechanics (water breathing items, for one).

The frequency of versions is also very much dependent on how much available time Johan has to devote to the project. And where graphics are concerned, how much time Kristoffer has too.

I don't know if it will take seven months but it certainly will not be in 2011. Johan's working hard and so are the testers too, you can count on that.

The final product is certainly worth waiting for.

Besides, testing takes time. Even using debug commands, some stuff can be devilishly hard to find since it is either complex, hard to spot or both or requires specific preconditions that can only be set up after a fair amount of time (even with accelerated progress).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

What is the criteria for releasing a new numbered version?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Right now it's enough accumulation of new features and/or enough fixes for bugs (feature bugs, not just statfixes). Once there is more stuff to test, generally.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Are there going to be some preset scenarios like CoE2 had? If so, will we be able to make our own scenarios as well?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Nobody has said that. In fact none of the CoE3 forums are on Shrapnel.
As far as I know its still undecided altho no matter what is decided it will probably be for the developers so I wouldnt hold out for it being better for you.

As for Scenarios, it is looking good. Some much more involved map commands with triggers, timers, and events is already fleshing out for CoE3

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Are there any public CoE3 forums?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

* Sleeping targets are immune to fear.

But... but WHY?!!
That's such a great way to make one sh.t in his pants!.. It was one of our favourite tricks in DnD2.0

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Umm, obviously, because they are asleep, and hence can't see the fearful thing. All fear things involve parading up & down shaking scary things in front of the target.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Hmm... ok maybe I need to retreat from my statement.

I guess the closest thing to public forums about CoE3 are this thread, and one in the CoE2 forum on Shrapnel. The only other forum I can think of is the one for the beta testing. Im not sure what any other forum would have other than maybe give the posters more of a feeling of freedom to post. There might be a thread on the freedom-to-post forum (Dom3Mods)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

OK it looks like CoE3 is officially now the next great Illwinter game (IMHO anyway).
I have now had it for 4 months and I am still happily playing it daily.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Boo Gandalf!

Your just pointing it out that you have it and we don't ;)

Good to hear its coming along well. Without giving anything away that shouldn't be, care to compare it to COE II?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Mechanics-wise it does compare to CoE2, but more polished, more complex and more transparent. Generally, more everything, I should say.

Unit graphics are a serious upgrade from Dominions for the most part (though some graphics are the same). Some of the graphical improvement comes from the interface, because the same graphic (exact same sprite) displays to much greater effect on the CoE3 interface.

Allied games are the biggest thing and that has had some improvements. For example, there is now an option where defeating a team requires defeating all players on that team before they are all eliminated. Without that, as soon as a player loses all commanders or all citadels, they are gone. Now one player can lose all commanders or all citadels and still stay in the game (and take a new citadel, or wait for new commanders to become available),

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Regarding modding capabilities and their status, here is what Johan had to say about the issue back in the Illwinter's Next Project thread. The post is dated August 16th, 2011 and it is the most comprehensive statement about modding in the game to date.

That thread is useful reading for those who have not already done so, but any further questions should be kept to this thread so as to have everything in the same place as much as possible.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Unlike previous beta-testing because they happened under Shrapnels rules, this beta-test does not have a non-disclosure agreement. So I can actually say that I am beta-testing it and be able to answer specific questions. (I debated for while whether I WANTED to tell this community that I was in the beta but decided to chance the flood) :)

I would say that CoE2 is a great starting point, and then add on top of that the many lessons learned and increased skills gained from creating Dom3 (including things they wish they had done). That seems like it would be obvious but its the best explanation I can think of. CoE2 upgraded by Dom3 experience.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

So does this mean illwinter ditched shrapnel? i really worry that without the broad advertising shrapnel provides the game wont ever be a big hit and will only be a niche game people want to pay $50 for.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I can't tell if he is being serious or super sarcastic. Oh internet.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Maybe Matrix Games?

Matrix Games publish some quality niche strategy titles. I'd highly recommend Distant Worlds (and expansions) from them. All those little ships remind me of 70's sci-fi.