Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Comment 1:

I begin by saying that this game is exceptional. :)

However, some things could be improved or changed to make it even better.

Suggestion 1: Crews

- Tank crews should have one SMG for self defense.

- Others should keep their initial close defense weapons when they leave their weapon system; now, they only have small guns.

Example:

A field gun crew have rifles or SMG for CD.
During a counter battery fire, they leave the FG.
After they left the FG, they are equipped only with pistols.

Where are riffles or SMG? They have lost!? :(

According me, we should have 2 kind of crew: 1 for tanks, and 1 for other weapon systems.

What do you think about that? :confused:

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

I think the idea is that "crews" are not a fighting force.

A tank crew doesn't really want to leave the tank.

I'm not against them having maybe one smg though :)

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi there!

Crews are not meant to be a fighting entity. Those rifles & SMGs they have if inside their weapon systems are meant to defend their mount (mortar, FG, etc). In it, they're still a fighting force. But once out of it, they're no longer classified as such. You can think of crews as those people fleeing the battlefield (and also their mount).
Maybe it's not realistic, but it's the way to keep the game balanced, because of the extreme freedom one can have on a game, compared to that of the real life.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

I agree, the crews are not combat troops.

But, if you have rifles or SMGs with 90 shots or more for your SD, you dont change for a pistol with 5. It make no sense... :confused:

I know it's just a detail, that's why it's a suggestion... :)

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

I like the way it is:)

I think one reason it's the way it is, exp. with large Atry crews,
Is that some gamey guys would exploit the game after all rounds have been fired off,they would use them as a fighting force,which is not at all right,
they should stay with thier guns not abandon them or let them fall into enemy hands.

As for armour crews,,,if they survive thier mount blown up or have abandon they would certainly not be wanting a fight, more like wanting a medic.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Just look at it like they don't have those things.

I was thinking maybe one guy in the crew has an SMG with one clip (30 rounds) ,not 90.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Ok...

Maybe they can have rifles or SMGs with less shots...

Thank,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Doubt it.
This has been discussed many times before and rejected,so don't hold your breath;)

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

<sigh>

Yes - every now and then and then again and yet again, somebody wants "Rambo-ised crews"... :doh:

Crews will remain as-is for the reasons given by others above.

Andy

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Suggestion 2: Ammo trucks

Should they not be similar to other heavy trucks?

Currently, they are easily identifiable and become easy targets.

I do not think it is so easy to identify these vehicles on the battlefield.

Suggestion 3: Trucks

Should they not have a single crew member (driver)?

Why 2, what the fonction of the second crew member (mechanic, helper)?

Thank you,

-Luc-

Suggestion 2: Ammo trucks should be less easier to spot & target.

Well, I always think that ammo trucks aren't normally deployed on the front line (which is the scope of SP). They're logistical (rear lines) support units. SP's deliberate use of ammo trucks are limited to special cases e.g convoy or encirclement, or, in case of PBEM is when you've agreed to use ammo trucks at all in the game. If you want to deploy ammo units on the battlefield, use canisters, or small, tracked, armored ammo carriers instead of the obviously bulging ammo trucks.

Suggestion 3: Trucks should have 1 driver.

There is no real restriction to this number. Actually why there are two seats on the front cabin? Trucks (or any other vehicles) would be put to its maximum use if it's manned by enough crews, 1 is better than 2 right? Especially when it is going for a battle instead of just lorrying goods across a highway.
In game terms, the extra person means that the vehicle can take extra damage to the "brain", thus extending the survivability of that truck.

Cheers, RightDeve!

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

I'm not talking about front line; I know they dont have to be there :)

But, usually, they are part of artillery formations alongside canons and other trucks.

On large maps, during large scale battles, it make sense to have them. The problem is that is so distinctive, they can influence the choice of opponents when they are discovered. They should be more ''anonymous''. These trucks are strategic elements...

About trucks, yes, the cabin is for more than 1 person, but usually, the commander and another member of the section take place there. The problem is that most of the time, full or empty, trucks explode killing all the crew. That's another things, trucks are rarely dammaged...

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

The whole of the map in SP is the front line. Rear line is where the logistical things are done by the logistic officers, where the ammo is distributed before the battle started. It is here that those ammo trucks unload themselves, where they reach the end of the supply line before going back to refill in the supply depot.
So, that is not the normal thing to have in SP, because the scope just doesn't allow that.
Even in large maps where you have artys parked with their ammo, it is still considered a special case, where the front line is near enough to the batteries.
That's why ammo trucks are treated the way they are in real life; they're not meant to be participating in an active battle. That's why they don't have complete camouflage or armor etc for a battle. If you want an ammo unit for an active battle, use ammo canisters or armored ammo carrier instead of trucks.
Anyway, ammo trucks are just trucks filled with ammunition.

...

or maybe what you meant was that the ammo truck should not be listed as such in the Unit Info Screen lest the enemy opens it up? That way, the enemy will just see them as normal trucks and won't be as hungry for them than if they're ammo trucks?
If that's the case, well, it's a matter of changing the game code. I believe that'll be a nice change, but somehow difficult to implement for the developers, maybe...

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

It is totally impossible given the SP system.

SP tells you what something is as soon as it is in LOS and visible. Even a hidden unit is reported as "tiger" and type of gun etc. when it fires. If a unit is hit and KO you know it is dead - no need to keep shooting till it explodes or changes shape just "to be sure".

Apart from hidden/not hidden - target info is 100% and correct. Like in chess.

Andy

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Well, at least we know now that we just need to live with it, hahaha! :happy:
But it's not that wholly unrealistic anyway, we can cope with it with our mind set up... (or, to agree not to peek at other's Unit Info Screen in PBeM) :)

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Why use those ammo units anyway?

The AI can't so unless you are planning wasting rounds on a huge constant bombardment on blank areas, against the AI it makes little sense,as ammo units can be more determental than beneficial, as the AI will CB fire.

I rarely see a ammo truck in PBEM ,until it explodes usually when they are in the reloading process,:D

With good effective Atry management,there is no need for ammo units imo.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Good points gila, that's why ammo units aren't NORMALLY front line units; only used in special cases.

Cheers, RightDeve :)

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

It totally depends on what arty units you are using,and how long the game is.

If I'm using something with some small token ammo amount,I always use ammo providers,though not usually the standard ammo truck.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

I find ammo vehicles near essential as the sheer number of units (when playing vs the AI) makes ammo resupply vital.

But then I generally play "low intensity" conflicts where the AI tends to have hordes of infantry the Chinese would be proud of.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

I agree with you...

My point of view is different maybe because I play long battle (90 turns) with my friends.

I use often MLRS too, thats another reason why I think ammo trucks are so important.

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Suggestion 4: CCCP Unit 267 White scout car

That scout car have 4 crew man and I dont understant why...

1 driver, 1 gunner. 2 others are there to push the car? :)

I saw other version of that unit with more weapon MG, maybe thats why they need a bigger crew, but not the soviet one.

Problem 1: CCCP Unit 205 Shelter bunker and unit 447 Sandbag MG pit

There riffles sound like MG :confused:

It's a little bit strange...

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

If you look close at both games there are 38 white scout car units in almost as many nations and the vast majority have 4 man crews not just that Russian one.

Seven of the MBT ones have 3 man crews and two WW2 ones have 2 men. I really (REALLY ! ) don't find anything "odd" about that at all nor do I feel every unit the same in every OOB should always in every case be exactly like every other like unit.

OK ?

The other issue regarding "Problem 1", there is no reason that should be happening and I will put it on the list to investigate but given the game is post WW2 and the default rifle sound is an assault rifle that may be what you are hearing not a "MG" and the rifle effect number needs to be place on those units using single shot rifles.


Don

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Suggestion 5: CCCP Unit 896 Chemical team

Maybe that TPO-50 picture is better thant the one with an RPG-2.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/...LUC9/tpo50.jpg

Problem 2: CCCP Unit 990 Tank transporter

I'm sure you already know... that unit cant move.

It's the samething with other nation I think.

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Ok... :)

I searched about White scout car and, during WW2, US WSC had a crew of 4 because of the number of MG on it:

1*12.7 MG + 2*.30 MG + 1 driver = 4 crew membres

But CCCP version only have 1 12.7 MG... so 2 should be normal.

What bug me a little is the WSC crew is bigger than the reccon team it carry, and without good reason.

And -4 mens is never good when it destroyed. :mad:

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Some interesting topics on this thread.

Crews

I agree that crews should have minimal self-defense, to reflect a survival mindset once they've abandoned their vehicle. Head for the rear and try not to bump into anyone.
And as many crew abandon a burning vehicle, grabbing an SMG and a belt full of clips may not always be top priority.

Truck Crews

Many military trucks have a driver and ‘drivers mate’ riding shotgun. And as RD said, the 2 crew makes the truck a little harder to kill, which is as it should be IMHO. But I do think small utility vehicles, like Jeeps, should only have 1 crew because there’s no room for a drivers mate, and once hit the compact vehicle should be far easier to KO than a large truck. I believe there are a few Jeeps with crew 2, and personally I would change them to 1 crew.

Ammo Truck Icons

Ammo trucks should obviously not ever be spotted by the enemy, or something's gone wrong :) With that in mind, the icons are mostly for their own commander to be able to quickly locate his own ammo trucks on the battlefield.

I think the closer you get to the 'sharp end' of the front line the smaller the ammo trucks should be. Trucks that are ferrying ammo right up to the very front, should probably by armoured - as someone already said – and are available to many nations, or you should use ammo canisters which can be ferried in anonymous trucks, and even a right click won’t reveal the contents of the truck, and the enemy has to get real close to spot an unloaded ammo canister.

But if the enemy spots an ammo truck that is stationary and supplying an artillery unit, they would also likely spot a pile of ammo boxes by the back of the truck, so in that case the enemy deserves to instantly know it’s an ammo truck, and a distinctive ammo truck icon is warranted.


Cross

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

I said that too ;)


HAHAH!! What a brilliant idea! :shock: Never thought of it before, Cross! I always thought that since canisters have zero speed they couldn't be loaded onto vehicles (maybe because the icon shows a pile of ammo rooted to the ground instead of an actual canister LOL). Now that I just made a test and confirmed this, it may open a good avenues for new tactics involving ammo units. :up:

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Ammo containers always accompany my missile (MANPADS or ATGM) teams.

They can be carried in a land rover type vehicle.

Just hold them back from the firing line in a dip or suchlike (so they do not get blown up) and shuttle empty teams back and forwards using the now unloaded land rover, or the team's own land-rover. if the firing line needs to move - get into the rovers and shift.

A few cheap land rovers or "baby" APC like the Spartan/armoured hummer are a real force multiplier for missile teams. They allow you to shoot and scoot and redeploy rapidly. Allocating about 1 ammo container per 2-3 teams gives the missile teams extra staying power.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Wow... great... It work for tanks, FG and MLRS... :)

Thank you very much. Things will be diferent now.

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

The more I think about it and play with things the more I think MRAP type vehicles, tho officially all-terrain should be rated as "wheeled" in WinSPMBT.

Their off-road mobility really us pretty lousy compared to ANY other all-terrain wheeled vehicle.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

All my ATGMS & Recoilless AT rifles all have Warhead size of 5 or higher except the M-72 Law. I thought ammo canisters could only resupply up to WH size 4?

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

They seem to load warhead up to WH 5. (3 was the old weapon size field, now obsolete - it was only used for ammo load calcs I think).

Andy

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Problem 2: CCCP Unit 279 Motorcycle:

5 crew members!?

Suggestion 6: CCCP Unit 399 ZSU M-16:

Is could be better is that unit is considered as a artillery system instead of an AFV.

Suggestion 7: CCCP unit 399 ZSU M-16:

Is it possible to recenter that icon? It seem to me to much to the left.

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Problem 2: should be 10 men as it's Motorcyles ---corrected


Suggestion 6: Seeing as it's classed as SP flak ( and has been classed that way since at least May 2005 ) I really have no idea what your problem with it could be except that you are using a modified OOB or have given me incorrect information.


Suggestion 7: I checked them in the SHP file and both points of rotation are where they should be. A little to the left or right is were an icon ends up when there is a turret at the back ( or front ) of a vehicle.



Don

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

I would tend to agree with that

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

About motorcyle S, I was thinking the opposite; maybe 2 mens/motorcycle.
But I understant you point...

About the ZSU-16, thank you, that what I was thinking...
Is just because the icon go in two hexes but that OK.

Thank you!

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Suggestion 8: Is it possible to create (randomly) a crew (1/2 mens) when a plane shot down?

Some helicopters have ejection seats too...

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

No - as aircraft don't have crews, and explode totally in any case. Fixed-wing planes are not allowed in cores, so crew survival is irrelevant for experience.

Andy

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Suggestion 9: Soviet K-61 (774) and PTS-M (775)

Should they not be able to carry medium trucks and other little cars; like heavy helos.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eQNPu6zzxa...xY/s640/22.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-PTS_Hun_2.jpg

Actually, they can carry some howitzers but not their movers...

Ex. A D-30 but not the Gaz-66.

Thank you,

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

The load class (weight code) - see mobhack - for vehicles carry is 2XX, so try experimenting with your own version for this.

Unfortunately - if it is say 230 or so, to allow for the 30(?) or so troops capacity, then the 200 code to allow vehicles gets combined with the weight class of the vehicle, allowing class 30 vehicles (probably Sherman etc?). Or 3 trucks probably. 250 would allow 50 men, or a modern MBT (class 50). See the landing barge.

Therefore - you would probably want a load capacity of 210 to restrict it to a single truck - but that means only 10 grunts. That is why there are Hercules planes with a small 2XX code, that cannot carry as many paras as the 1XX version - and why there are 2, one for vehicle drops and one for para drops.

Also, in those AI pick lists that take light or heavy amphibians then it may well confuse the AI load code (or it will simply not place them inside, perhaps).

Overall - a nice niche idea, but open to abuse if you allowed several trucks on board, or administrative hell if you need 2 versions.

I'd stick to the regular barge, free floating or carried by barge carrier, myself.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Problem 3: CCCP Unit 655 MT-LB in groups 570 to 573 (Wheeled APC):

I think the MT-LB should be in tracked APC groups.

Thank you!

-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

It is an APC class (251) - and has move class tracked.

Nothing wrong with a wheeled or tracked APC in amongst the others, provided it has the right move class.

Andy

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

BMP's are the "tracked" APC's and the formations that need BMP's get just BMP's. Mixing in MT-LB's creates problems as the formations that use BMP's don't use MT-LB's

The ones used by UC 251, like unit 655 can use either Wheeled BTR's or Tracked MT-LB's which is why in the new OOB's those formations that specify "BTR" like "BTR Bn Spt Co" and use Unit class 251 are now called "APC Bn Spt Co ".

It saves creating duplicate units in an already crowded OOB and allows players the flexibility of using either type of APC


Don

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Hi,

Problem 4: DDR unit 370 and 371

Same S-60 57mm AAG but:

- unit 370 without radar cost 30;
- unit 371 with radar cost 27.

Unit 371 should not cost more than unit 370?

Thank you!
-Luc-

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

we'll look into it

Don

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

My question is a bit of a general one. What equipment should there be in the OOB?

In Finland the Border Guard is working under Interior Ministry (and not Ministry of Defence) at times of peace but in crisis situations will be under presidential command just like FDF. Some of the equipment - namely Bell 412 helicopters - have already been listed in the OOB with a radio code X3.

Border Guard also gets some conscripts for special purposes such as special border jaegars and then the rest (and most) as border jaegars who are specialized in patrolling, reconnaissance and sabotage. Special border jaegars are like special forces for Sissis and are selected from candidates by strict criteria.

Things that could be included in OOB:
- AW 119 Ke Koala [204 - Light Helicopter] 1/2010-
- AS 332 Super Puma [53 - Helicopter] 1/2012?-
- Bell 206 [204 - Light Helicopter] 1/1968-12/2012 (first operated by FDF, from 1979 onwards by Border Guard)
- Special Border Jaegars [88 - Commando Scouts]

http://www.raja.fi/vllv/vartiolentol...ma-aluskalusto

If this is something that potentially could go into the Finnish OOB I could do more thorough background check with references and suggest the units.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

OOBs must not have any squirmishers!

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index...=38663&page=13

Cheers
Andy
;)

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

Just ... ewwwww ....

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

:D

I'm not proposing skirmishers and definitely not squirmishers, but an elite reconnaissance troop inclusion. Think about Sissi platoon on steroids... no wait, during war time they all are.

Think of Sissi platoon, but really toughened to be considered special forces guys. During times of peace they are a part of border guard but in crisis they will be included in FDF.

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

i thing btr's is apc's and bmp's is ifv's

Re: Comments, suggestions and problem reports
 

i have problem with usmc company(H)
after 2006 the helos don't load entire company :(