How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Hi,

This is kind of an arcane question, but, how did the transfer of SSI source code from SSI to The Camo Workshop come to be? And how did there come to be two branches of SP? That from The Camo Workshop and that from Matrix Games?

I'm just an inquisitive fella. :)

Dave

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

<DD>The only way to answer that completely gets me discussing issues that are 15 years in the past and serves little purpose at this time to do anything other than raise my blood pressure. if you have any skill at reading between the lines read the development history in the game guide.

<DD> <DD>The, short, clean, happy version is in the Fall of 1997 ( corrected from 1998 in the original ) I started PBEMing SP2 with a guy in Italy named Piero Angeli . This was the post SP3 disappointment and we started discussing how it would be nice to play the 50 meter hex WW2 with the added features like the extra units and the better artillery routine....... months past, a few others named in the GG joined in , work was done..... the World Cup interfered then was over and eventually in August 1998 Andy joined us to sort out the OOB....... he had created MOBHack and was familiar with what we needed ( and WE ALL THOUGHT THIS WOULD LAST 6 MONTHS AND BE DONE .....CAN'T Y0U JUST FEEL THE IRONY ) <DD> <DD>
<DD>From there you can read the development history in the game guide. The first release SP2WW2 was an add on to SP2 with a Hex Edited EXE. In 1999 we co-shared the code ( but had no direct control over ) that had been aquaired by the Gamers Net with their staff. Long story short and I'm REALLY trying to be polite..... it wasn't a good "fit". We ( Andy and I ) knew where we wanted the game to go but other people had other ideas and after SPWW2 DOS Version 2.0 was released we were "told" that future development was going to be on the SP3 engine so we went from the originators to a side show and that was that.

Again... long story short there were "negotiations" and we ended up with un-fettered access to the SP2 code and Andy tucked into that like a terrier after a rabbit ( he had been an uncredited playtester for SP3 ) and that ended any secondary sources making changes we didn't want. EVERYTHING that had been coded or added into V2 was re-coded by Andy and that became Dos V2.2 then V3 was released in July 2000 with 15 leves of terrain and a HOST of other improvements then around that time.. not sure when but I think it was late fall but I could be wrong... "the other game" was released and we went our way and are still developing the game, and they went theirs and here we are today and we are about three weeks from releasing another upgrade to the game(s). ( because we decided we didn't have enough aggravation in our lives so we expanded SP to 92 nations and the date range to 2020 and created SPMBT )</DD>

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Thanks for the summary! I apologize, I didn't mean to raise any blood pressure levels! :doh:

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Thanks for an interesting story. :up:

In the same 1998 I started to correct SP1 and SP2 OOBs and pictures on my own, and now I'm pestering Don... ;)

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Through sleuthing, I managed to find a copy of the original SP2WW2 that started it all; and here goes:

http://i.imgur.com/5UWTZpM.png

http://i.imgur.com/aGNdSz1.png

No Campaigns, no nothing; just the "Raiders ride to work" scenario; and a near complete conversion of all the OB data from SP1 to SP2.

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

It doesn't sound like much now but it let people play ww2 especially PBEM with the added units / formations of SP2 and the more advanced SP2 artillery routines and trust me NOBODY and I mean NOBODY expected to be STILL updating the game as a full windows version in 2015 with a couple dozen updates behind it..... that would have been crazy talk.. complete and utter insanity

Don

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

:first: Thank for your madness :capt:

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Fascinating chronology of the battle-scarred path to the wonderful games we enjoy today in the form of winSPMBT and winSPWW2. As a reminder of what was, and thankfully what is no longer-I keep the various SSI games I've owned and played on a bookshelf in line-of-sight of my game computer with the winSPMBT and CD winWWII game installations. Thank you guys for all you've done to make these games so enjoyable and equally important-playable!

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

And before that; SPCAMO workshop got it's name from the repaints

SP2:

Original SSI Art:
http://i.imgur.com/I83jj0e.png

SPCAMO Green SHP Repaint
http://i.imgur.com/cy93uTt.png

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Crude now but a big change to the game at the time and I really started doing that as experiments to see how to work with the game palette and mapping the Icon locations for the ww2 changeover

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

That does bring back memories, bilious green Allies, earth brown Russians, and electric blue Germans. Once again many thanks to Andy and Don and all those who have contributed over the years.

Regards, Warwick

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

And before Steel Panthers was even a glimmer in SSI and Grigsby's eyes:

First, you had KAMPFGRUPPE in 1985:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/kampfgruppe

East Front 1941-45

and MECH BRIGADE, again in 1985:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/mech-brigade

NATO/USSR conflict.

followed by

PANZER STRIKE in 1987

http://www.mobygames.com/game/panzer-strike

Basically, East Front, North Africa, West Front (with no americans).

Then TYPHOON OF STEEL in 1988

http://www.mobygames.com/game/typhoon-of-steel

Which had PTO (US v Jap, UK v Jap) and the remaining ETO stuff (US v GER).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbLmIhQnWvY
Youtube of the DOS EGA version -- the C64 version was programmed by Gary Grigsby.

All of these games were semi-turn based / real time hybrids, similar to COMBAT MISSION, in which you gave your orders and then let the game units execute them, but you can see the definite influences that they had on Steel Panthers, as Grigsby likes to reuse/recycle basic informational concepts.

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

First computer hex-based wargame I played was on my TRS-80 back in 81
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankti..._Eastern_Front

You got a hex map and punch out units, spend 20 minutes loading it up off the tape cassette and then had to shuffle both sides counters!.

There also was a simple battle of Midway one where the enemy fleet was a "F" or a "B" on a grid on screen. At least that one did not need paper shuffling <G!>. Only air strikes were counted - if the Japanese invasion fleet coincided with your "E" for Enterprise task force then there was no surface action.

Both were in TRS-80 BASIC so you could look at the source and make edited versions. Nobody bothered, though. I think those games were Avalon Hill ones.

Price was ~25 pounds, when a pound would buy 2 pints in the students union. 50 pints at (say) 4 quid today = £200 in today's money. The basic 4K TRS-80 cost about 250-300 pounds as I recall. My first 5 1/4" floppy disk drive for it was another 300 pounds or so in 1982-ish. Early computer kit was not cheap.

The college mainframe was a Dec-20 and after 6PM I think, made games available. It had Star Trek, Rogue, some text-only dungeon, and Empire. Empire was hugely addictive - you built tanks and ships in your one starting city and went off exploring and conquering the world!. Empire would later appear a decade or so later with fancy graphics as "Civilisation".

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

PZ-IVC stat screen from PANZER STRIKE. You can kind of see the proto-Steel Panthers peeking out at you from here; in much the same way if you look at Grigsby's EAGLE DAY and BOMBING THE REICH, you can see the glimpses of the game engine later used for WAR IN THE PACIFIC.

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Hehe - ah the memories of pulling an "all nighter" in the polytechnic computer lab playing MUD on the Dec-20 :)

</g!>

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

Yes, and thanx from us over here also, cheers.

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

The first computer wargames I took any serious interest in was Atomic games V for Victory series which I played to death right up to SP1's release it gave me the look of the board games I had been used to in the 60's and 70's without having to find an opponent with the time to play when I wanted to play and the look of the games was IMHO way ahead of others at the time and one of the games covered Gold-Juno-Sword beaches.....
http://www.myabandonware.com/media/s...no-sword_5.png
what's not to love about that ?:)

http://www.abandonwaredos.com/public...likiye_005.jpg

then they did a very similar series for Avalon hill..Operation Crusader, Stalingrad and others

http://www.myabandonware.com/media/s...ye-luki_10.png

it appears they are all available to DL from abandonware sites

Hard to belive sometimes that was a quarter century ago.........

Re: How Did the SSI to The Camo Workshop Come to Be?
 

After reading it again, I must say, that through all these years you, Don and Andy, made an important impact on a history of strategic games :) Thank you for your devotion.