What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

It's a year and a half away. Does the game die then? Or will the designers at least open the dates so people can make their own updates? It would be sad if it just becomes obsolete in the very near future.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

WinSPMBT originally ended in 2020 and was extended to 2025.

As to what happens in 2025 that depends entirely on Don and Andy.

BUT !
Given some of the recent tech that's becoming common place (mini-drones, various anti-drone systems, artillery/missile intercept/destruction systems, electronic camouflage/invisibility, robots, cyberwarfare, etc.), stuff WinSPMBT was never designed/coded to deal with going beyond 2025 with the sort of tech/capability accuracy WinSPMBT is famous for would be VERY difficult as it would require basically redesign/coding of the entire game.
So don't hold your breath.

(Note: This is ENTIRELY my opinion and has zero input from Don/Andy.)

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

All things eventually come to an end BUT I hope not this game in the near future. I hope Don & Andy have a plan to keep this game going beyond 2025. This is one of my favorite tactical strategy games. Will it requiring a complete rebuild to remain relevant beyond 2025? If so I will support it by buying it all over again if necessary!

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Providing as mentioned, Andy and Don should decide to carry on I plan to submit my last submission in the Feb. - March 2026 timeframe.

GEEZ, I don't know speaking for myself I'll not quite be to my 67th year if a patch is released in 2026 with full retirement less than a year after that.

I figure I'll have more time to actually play the game instead working on it along with my regular job and all the wonderful things life throws our way. :rolleyes: :D

It'll be the last opportunity to adjust dates and get some of the equipment into the game such as ARMATA, ALTAY (NEW), LeClerc XLR and ABRAMS M1A2C (SEP 3) which as of this writing still has not reached FOC from the USA.

Also going into the technical aspects is the fact that we can't model the defensive anti-drone systems already in the field from handheld to fully vehicle mounted systems using high speed frequency (ESM) to the more recently practical laser systems. And even simpler systems that "shoot out" nets to "capture" smaller drones.

I would hope we "temper" our desire to add too many drones and other similar systems because those systems against them exist and more importantly we would in fairness have to enter them into about every OOB currently in the game.

The only NEW major land-based system to do so in 2022 from the USA to reach FOC was the AMPV around last fall as I reported.

When I built and submitted the ABRAMS SEP 2 the "magic" number as I remember it took 8 Armored Brigade Combat Teams (ABCT) to be fully equipped with the ABRAMS M1A2 SEP 2 before the USA fielded it.
https://www.army.mil/standto/archive...rt%20battalion.

This is all army.mil has on the ABRAMS M1A2C/SEP 3

https://www.army.mil/article/255225/...al_defender_22
https://www.army.mil/article/256365/...rations_summit
(Note Para 11 as it pertains to Poland and this discussion.)
https://www.army.mil/article/258709/...ent_and_future
(They were the first unit to get the first of the M1A2C tanks in late 2020.)

I know an ABCT out of Ft. Stewart, Ga. just got fitted out this past year and should just about now or soon be at Ft. Irwin Training Grounds for "finishing school" and qualification to be certified as operational with their new equipment to include M1A2C, AMPV, Paladin A7 and others.

All you need to know about ABRAMS is here to build a timeline.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...updated-02834/

"July 8/22: Stryker General Dynamics Land Systems won external link a maximum $145.5 million deal for multiple spare parts in the Abrams Main Battle Tank, Stryker Family of Vehicles, Light Armored Vehicle Family of Vehicles, Cougar, Buffalo and RG-31. This was a sole-source acquisition using justification 10 US Code 2304(c)(1), as stated in Federal Acquisition Regulation 6.302-1. The M1 Abrams entered service in 1980 and currently serves as the main battle tank of the United States Army and formerly the Marine Corps. Work will take place in Florida. Estimated completion date is July 29, 2029."

Not all will see conversion to the M1A2C or M1A2D it seems.

As you can see, we have a lot of "outliners" still out there with maybe Ukrainian F-16 "land attack" jets within 2 years.

Stock up on your favorite "headache" relief product this could all prove interesting.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Meaby that is a good time to close SPMBT like SPWW2 in fixed timeframe and start to thinking about new game SPWW3 with all that innovations and OOB can be free of many stuff from Cold War.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Probably.

But who's gonna make it?
Don and Andy are two people not a game development company. Don handles graphics, OOBs, etc. Andy is the coder. Two people ... two. Even if they wanted to create SPWW3 it would take YEARS for one person to code it.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I think they should simply extend the years and update the game yearly. Simple solution. I think it would be best.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

WinSPWW2 "ends" in 1946 it is still updated and played nearly 80 years later...

WinSPMBT has a while to go yet!

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Scorpio is right, the time frame might end in 2025 but like SPWW2 will be played for a long time after.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

What about doing something as they have done with certain nations that change flags, aka new governments, so things hit the 2026 mark, new OOBs are in place that pushed out the older Cold War legacy stuff for those nations that are going full bore forward to the new age using that same method like how Rhoodesia's OOB vanishes post 1980 and is replaced with Zimbabwe.

Nothing saying it's an easy or simple idea, just an idea.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Why don't we let Andy and Don say what they will do?

troopie

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

"we" are not thinking that far ahead ATM.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Well, I think something needs to be done, because both Steel Panthers titles combined together include all, or almost all the wars fought from 1930 to the near future. If WinSPMBT isn't updated or replaced by a new Steel Panthers title, Steel Panthers just won't be the great wargaming system that it is today. It will probably fade away and become one of those games we played "back in the day".

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

1911 to present (I am pretty sure I designed a 1911 scenario, for sure a 1914 one). It won’t fade away trust me.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I played the "Broken Arrow" demo and was impressed by it's ability to model vehicles and weapons systems. BUT since it was a demo there were several issues with the weapons systems (types and numbers) the USMC fielded.

My major ... and it is MAJOR ... problem is that it's an RTS.

If you're expected to command/fight a company/battalion/brigade size formation I DEMAND the game be turn based. Because you can't see and be everywhere at once.

So while I'll probably buy/play "Broken Arrow" it can never replace WinSPMBT.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Sir, I agree. RTS can't work until you can give an order to a platoon, company, battalion and expect it to be carried out while you are somewhere else.

troopie

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Well, I would respectfully disagree with some of the comments made here.

A game "dies" when the players stop playing it plain and simple.

I somewhat resent the fact that some people have worked real hard on these games outside of Andy and Don in many ways from equipment, scenarios, campaigns and play testing and I'm sure in other capacities as well since it's inception almost.

How with so MANY OOBs can a player feel the game isn't relevant it least on the playability side?

There are several hundred possible combinations in the game. Not including all the Scenarios and Campaigns that people out here have gotten added to the game.

With my current two-year Generated Campaign, I've got it set at 35 battles.

I'll be put in an oven and cooked too well done before I could even come close to exhausting this game.

I cut my teeth in Africa, South America before I went to Europe or Asia. Why don't you visit there as well?

So, I now :welcome: you to ScotCana Airways!!!!!! :clap: :jam: :rock: :wave:

May I suggest since most if not all of you already bought the "unlimited ticket" to travel the world within in these games that maybe you just might want to visit different parts of it!?!

I can ensure your flight will be non-stop with no turbulence and if you choose, Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner or Snacks will be offered at no charge by ScotCana Airways.

As always also there further will be no charge for luggage, devices, boarding passes with free parking!

Finally, as frequent flyers you still get head of the line Check In Boarding and Deplaning Privileges.

Depending on where you land be advised ScotCana Airways absolves itself of ANY responsibility for your personal safety as in some areas "might" be considered dangerous.

So, this is your :cop: Pilot :capt: FB (If I can drive a Submarine I sure as poop can fly a jet! ;)), Welcome Aboard Flight 1930-2025 non-stop to the world!! Please buckle up we'll be wheels up shortly as we are 6th in the que. Have a Wonderful Day!! :cool:

We fly better aircraft than these guys as we use hydrogen powered engines, and all our seats are first class!!
https://skycana.com/nuestra-flota/
https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/our-fleet/
Sorry Andy best I could do!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I promise that when MBT dies, MustangMBT will continue.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Couldn't a drone spotter just be a size0 helicopter with difficult-to-kill stat? Kamikaze drones function like airstrikes. While the grenade drops and kamikaze drones look impressive the most battlefield impact has been as arty spotters.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Don't expect the current effects of cheap drones to last.
They're VERY effective at the moment because basically no one has developed a defense against them but that will change FAST. Simple jamming or an EM pulse will drop them in a heartbeat.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I think it's safe to not include drones in the game because aircraft are already a stretch and you can kill drones easily with rifles.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Simple jamming isn't stopping the drones on both sides from hitting their targets in appreciable numbers.

Yes, the future is going to be directed energy weapons (DEW) applied to every armored vehicle -- presumably as part of the active protection (APS) system -- if the APS detects a signature similar to the very fast spinning rotors of a quadcopter; send back a short high frequency radar burst to that target to fry the drone.

Or lasers (they're just getting deployed now) will appear in large numbers to counter drones.

Either way, a LOT of coding would be necessary to accurately depict weapons effects for both lasers and DEWs in Steel Panthers since they're a totally new "rock-papers-scissors" paradigm versus the current projectile weapon system used in all Steel Panthers since 1994.

Issues to solve would be:

1.) Size issues -- laser size is rated in kilowatts with targets being:

10 kw = Mortar shells and small drones
50 kw = artillery shells and heavier drones
300 kw = combat aircraft, etc.

2.) Lasers can be affected by dust/smoke/weather conditions; to an extent that projectile weapons aren't.

3.) Microwave (aka Radar based) DEWs are largely unaffected by weather; but are a current unknown-unknown -- in that we don't have public open source data on just how much radar energy is needed to disable/damage current threat profiles -- commercial drones like DJI Mavics should be relatively easy; but a combat aircraft like the F-16 -- IDK how well that would work, given that F-16s have been tested for operations in a nuclear environment with nuclear-generated EMP.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Drones are just a range 10 grenade. They are already part of the game.

If you do want to know the math behind how jamming works I can show you. The jammers themselves are custom made and there aren't any mass produced models you can put in an oob, but I can give you numbers.

The size value in the game already abstracts all of this. There is no reason to handle different sensors differently. If you can detect something visually you can detect it by radar as well. The size and other values in the game are just for all detection types, for example aircraft have an EW value that is used for stealth and things that aren't EW.

Again, in real life it would be shot down by rifles immediately but if we want to simulate jamming we can. Regardless of drones it would be good to have some understanding of how ground penetrating radars and such work. This also allows tunnel warfare which is the only real thing you need in tbe game as tunnel warfare happens a lot in real life.

But I can give you information on how jamming works and the signal/noise ratio functions, and you can incorporate that as a size value in units, there is no code change needed as the unit visibility is already abstracted as size, suppression, the orders system etc.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I don't see lasers or DEWs on anything for the next ten years, not until they get a better power source and battery weight issues down to the realm of reality. Projectile weapons aren't being replaced anytime soon. Drones are a great idea, but they have limited use, and everyone is working to counter them so that they might be a short-term item on the battlefield.

Keep in mind not every fight will mimic the insanity we are currently seeing, and that is something I believe the Western military leadership is not keeping in their thinking going forward.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Not to mention that in any major power war, all GPS satellites will be destroyed immediately and all but the most advanced drones will be completely useless.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

This is from last year.

https://seapowermagazine.org/northro...-uss-portland/

The Laser Weapon System Demonstrator [Mark 2 MOD 0] deployed on the U.S. Navy’s amphibious platform dock ship USS Portland (LPD 27) has competed its first deployment as the Portland returned to its homeport of San Diego in March....

The 150-kilowatt LWSD is mounted on the superstructure of the Portland and is integrated with the ship’s combat information center, where a control console is installed. Northrop Grumman made the Tactical Laser Core Module of the system, while the U.S. government made the system’s energy and thermal storage modules.

....

During the deployment on the Portland, the LWSD was operated and maintained completely by Sailors. No company employees were on board to support the system. The company provided training on the system before the deployment and developed a three-volume operation and maintenance manual for Sailors to use on the ship, she said.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

The US Army released it's Counter UAS (C-UAS) Field Manual (they now call it something else -- ADP).

https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/atp3-01-81.pdf

ATP 3-01.81
Counter-Unmanned Aircraft System (C-UAS)
AUGUST 2023

...

Group 1 - Micro/Mini UAS (0 to 20 lbs) (RQ-11 Raven / DJI MAVIC) - Generally, hand launched commercial off-the-shelf, radio controlled platforms. They have limited ranges and small payload capabilities. They offer real time video. Operated within line of sight of the user.

Group 2 - Small Tactical (21 to 55 lbs) (SCAN EAGLE / SKY-09Ps) - Small airframes with low radar cross sections provide medium range and endurance. Launched from unimproved areas with a small number of people involved. Requires line of sight to the ground control station.

Group 3 - Tactical (56 to 1,320 lbs) (RQ-7B Shadow / Shahed) -- Similar to Group 1 and 2 UAS, requires a larger logistical footprint. Range and endurance varies significantly among platforms.

Group 4 - Strategic/Theater (Over 1,320 lbs) (MQ-1 Predator / Gray Eagle) - Relatively large systems operated at medium to high altitudes. This group has extended range and endurance capabilities. Normally requires a runway for launch and recovery.

Group 5 - Strategic (Over 1,320 lbs) (RQ-4 Global Hawk / MQ-9 Reaper) - Operates at medium to high altitudes having the greatest range, endurance, and airspeed. Requires large logistical footprint like that of manned aircraft and has a suite of optics for targeting and weaponry for engagements.

NOTE: Integrated air and missile defense (AMD) capabilities can effectively counter larger classes (groups 3, 4, and 5). AMD assets have difficulty tracking, identifying, and defeating small-unmanned aircraft systems (sUASs) (groups 1 and 2).

It also lists publicly what the Army has for defeating small-unmanned aircraft systems (sUASs):

1.) Handheld Radio Direction Finder - it tells you if a threat is operating in the common frequencies used by drones, and where it's coming from.

2.) Simple Directed Energy Weapon -- "Drone Buster" -- an oversized radar gun that jams the frequencies used by commercial drones.

3.) SMART SHOOTER -- A new weapons sight that mounts to existing rifles. When the Smart Shooter is employed, it will only fire when the sight is aligned to hit the target, this includes the required “lead” on a moving target.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

RE: 3.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5YWXrZdNpA


One comment posted was interesting

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

https://twitter.com/AirPowerNEW1/sta...53382781870513

Northrop Grumman recently delivered a miniaturized high-energy laser source to the DOD. The 10kW class #HEL, known as #Phantom, is about 12 cubic feet & weighs less than 200 lbs. The laser is ruggedized for field use & miniaturizing it allows for rapid placement according to NG.

20 kW is about equivalent to a 30 hp engine; easily placeable on a AFV as an APU of some sorts that can power the AFV when parked, when it's not powering the laser...

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

And what does that APU run on?

Recall again they want to go to all-electric vehicles for BOTH tactical and non-tactical vehicles, including armored tracked and wheeled vehicles. So, while it might be a small APU, what is it running on? And how long does it last? Sounds great, but if it only lasts a few hours at full power, then it's not much use. Also, how many techs are going to be attached to the unit to make sure it stays up and running at full spec?

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Guys they, the DOD and the MIC, have been saying since the late 90s we will have DEW or Laser on AFVs. Yet nothing has happened. In 2008 we were told hey we MIGHT get one for use on the Bradleys to counter IEDs, never happened.

Then while in Korea in 2016, we heard Oh hey, there is talk about a laser weapon being put on the Strykers, and nothing came of that. Every decade since the 80s, the MIC talks, shows off a cool demo system, the DOD throws them money, and nothing ever makes it down to the rank and file to us, so what is going to change this time?

Also, adding a separate APU to an AFV means one more thing that can break down, one more thing that needs to be taken care of. That equals more downtime overall for the AFV. All of that has to be factored into the command and control planning. Important for real life, but maybe not for a war game depending on scale and scope.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Lasers might be twice as powerful as people think because they can start fires. I don't think there's one single animal on earth that will not retreat from fire. I imagine they will breakdown easy, just from everyday wear and tear from simple vibrations that its vehicle its mounted too has to endure each day. Probably would require extra maintenance and re-calibrations daily as well. As far as how decisive they will be on the battlefield, only time will tell.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

1. )Big Army is now behind it with the system designated Directed Energy Maneuver-SHORAD [DE M-SHORAD].

https://www.defensenews.com/land/202...rones-at-yuma/

2.) The Ukrainian war has pushed anti-drone capabilities to the forefront. The cheapest possible weapon now -- IRON DOME style -- costs about $30,000 per interceptor. This just too much when dealing with the DJI MAVIC drone threat of $2 to $3K per drone just flying around with a camera and dropping grenades on you.

3.) Lasers are the solution to a lot of problems. While you can use a radar intended for an active protection system to track drones and probably zap them with microwaves; that's a very limited capability -- it only works on targets that need electronics continuously running to stay in the air -- lasers let you counter artillery shells, mortars and drones with a very low marginal per shot cost. You can also use the laser against ground targets -- i.e. zapping IEDs or suspected IEDs, clearing land mines, destroying UXO, etc.

The M1A2 SEPv3 Abrams upgrade has a 10 kW APU.

The M2A4 Bradley has an APU.

Big Army saw the light on APUs after thousands of hours were waste in Iraq using Abrams and other AFVs as road sentries, running their engines for hours on end to power the on board sensors needed for the sentry mission.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

If youre going to assume directed energy weapons start fires, the entire map will become flame hexes fast.

As they said in the old NATO boardgame, to simulate the effects of strategic nuclear war, douse the map in gasoline and get a lighter.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

APUs are one more thing to go wrong. I have seen firsthand how badly PMCS is done on stuff, seen how well it is done when it's done right. Worlds apart. Also, the DOD is being told to go all-electric by 3030/35, so what good will an APU do them when the damn batteries weigh more than the overall vehicle can carry?

Same for the laser/DEW system, the power source is still the size of a car to give it any chance to do the damage-to-kill ratio it needs to be effective. Shooting down missiles or artillery is great, but to have them on AFVs and be effective against other AFVs on the same level as chemical projectile guns, you will need a lot of power.

Big Army didn't see ****, contractors saw something and sold them something. We the soldiers pointed out issues to them all the time, sent in tons of reports and it got nothing changed. What we got told was to shut the F-UP and worry about our lanes.

Big Army has been dazzled by the MIC since the 60s with their promises of everything from caseless ammo for small arms, which we still haven't gotten, to laser rifles for the infantry. Every other year you see one or more of the contractors pushing their stuff and nothing comes of it other than a lot of money thrown at a project and little return.

Yes, the Army wants the DEW and they want rail guns and they want power armor suits and they better tanks and they want and want...but they don't get everything. And a lot of their pipedream wants are just that pipedreams from the MIC.

I have a nice collection of old COMBAT ARMS magazines with all the promised stuff the MIC was telling the DOD they would give by this point in time and that was back in the 1980s and here we are still not even seeing less than a quarter of that stuff since most of it was lies.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Drone tactics are evolving rapidly.

With no active Counter Drone system (C-UAS) widely deployed, everything is now a target for aerial drones:

For the IDF...drones dropping PG-7VR Tandem Charge HEAT warheads onto the thin roof armor of their Merkavas

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/...58410655285375

https://twitter.com/zhang_heqing/sta...88279315120142

A little bit more to the left or right, and that HEAT jet would have hit stowed ammo and... :shock:

In the sudan...drones drop mortar shells

https://twitter.com/africaken1/statu...73104419082256

IDF troops have also been hit with mortar bombs -- there's video of IDF troops sheltering behind a vehicle, only for a HAMAS drone to fly over them and drop a mortar bomb on them from the first days of the current middle eastern conflict.

Abandoned tanks have to be recovered ASAP or else they're destroyed.

https://twitter.com/dronefare/status...81872923910360

This BTW is like what happened on Okinawa 80~ years ago. If Shermans weren't recovered immediately -- at night, Japanese infiltrators would move up and toss explosives into them.

Drones are moving into fully autonomous mode, capable of operating with no operator.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidha...h=540426b866da

Ground Drones -- UGVs are being used now to lay mines and re-mine previously cleared areas under fire:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/10/...an-troop-said/

https://twitter.com/OSINTNic/status/1714752095952212371

There are unconfirmed rumors right now that the Russians are using cargo drone ground vehicles for autonomous resupply of ground forces; but no imagery has shown up yet.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Man, those are some fine videos. Technology of advanced weapon systems is advancing at such a fast pace, if the game isn't updated past 2025, all those updates of the past will become obsolete real fast.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

That may be a LOT more difficult then you think.
That would require considerable amounts of new and re-coding. And there's one, ONE, coder, Andy. Even if he wanted to do all the needed coding it would take years, literally, for one man to do all that's needed.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechne...icle/hywpcxufp

"Magen Or," the Israeli rocket interception system, which utilizes a high-powered laser, will soon undergo a series of tests under the conditions of actual combat in the southern part of the country.

"Magen Or" (Iron Beam) represents the next step in Israel's self-defense capabilities: a laser system capable of neutralizing rockets, missiles, or drones from a distance, at zero cost when compared to the Iron Dome.

Following the conflict with the terrorist organization Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the Israeli Ministry of Defense and Rafael recently agreed to deploy the system near the border with Gaza and challenge it with rocket barrages launched by Hamas terrorists. The operational testing of Magen Or - which is still in the development process - will not compromise the operational effectiveness of Iron Dome, which will be activated whenever launches are detected from the Gaza Strip. According to a security source, this is being considered as a live experiment.

The Magen Or system is scheduled to begin initial operations in 2024-2025, following a significant breakthrough in laser weapon technology in recent years. This system is designed to intercept various threats, including rockets, mortar bombs, drones, and more, all at a cost equivalent to the electricity required to operate it. Developers at Rafael categorize Magen Or as a complementary defensive weapon to Iron Dome, also developed and manufactured by the same companies. These two systems are designed to operate in coordination. Therefore, if the command and control system directs a powerful laser beam towards a target, an Iron Dome interceptor will not be deployed, resulting in savings of approximately $50,000 per Iron Dome interceptor.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

With the Game, Don and Andy will decide. And I will live with it. Goeie nag.

troopie

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

From what I remember you can play random battles and scenarios set in the future. How far in the future can you go? I imagine most of the units are hypothetical. Are the units very realistic? If the game isn't updated beyond 2025, will all of these type of games become obsolete? Please excuse me for being so ignorant, but I never played a game set beyond the real date, so I don't really know what their like.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Latest thing now. Ukrainians are using cargo drones (actually normal mortar bomb dropping drones) to ferry cargo across the Dnepr to the units that have crossed it.

https://twitter.com/CasualArtyFan/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Went looking up the TRV-150:

https://www.popsci.com/technology/ma...supply-drones/

EDIT: I think the pace of drone development is so rapid, with everyone getting them, that I think that it may be useful to simply consolidate them (if not already done) into BLUE or RED OBAT as "Grenade Drone", "Mortar Drone", "25 kg Kamikaze Drone", "Resupply UGV", "Resupply UAS"

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

HAMAS is now using grenade drones against the IDF with locally 3d printed fins.

https://twitter.com/war_noir/status/1719795974816546959

https://twitter.com/AirPowerNEW1/sta...23988430299597

https://twitter.com/AirPowerNEW1/sta...50140141895761

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/11/...e-from-epirus/

==========

As I posted in previous post (edited in, so Don may have missed it), but the pace of drone development / counter drone development is so rapid, with everyone getting them, that I think that it may be useful to simply consolidate these types of equipment into BLUE or RED OBAT as "Grenade Drone", "Mortar Drone", "25 kg Kamikaze Drone", "Resupply UGV", "Resupply UAS", "HPM Microwave Weapon", "Laser" etc.

I know you guys talked about in the past how you wished you had done more generic weapons systems -- "5.56mm rifle", "5.56mm scoped rifle", "5.56mm LMG" -- to save on weapon slots in national OBATS.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I hope an OBAT is a generic form of an OOB. If it is, I hope it gets included in the next update!

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I hope we can jam drones in the next update.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

What does "I hope we can jam drones in the next update." mean exactly?

There are already numerous drones in the OOBs including a unitclass for drones

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

ECM units that counter drones not just shoot them down. Stop them from doing their tactical job, like how smoke blocks LOS for units to a point or terrain does.

Not having more drone units, I think that is a waste of space, I am saying having the function for a setting for units to be able to actively disrupt the drones on the board, in the same manner smoke does LOS.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

https://twitter.com/AirPowerNEW1/sta...77360507617629

Long thread.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Indirect Fire Protection Capability (IFPC) will be a set of mobile, ground-based weapon systems designed for Cruise Missile Defense (CMD), Counter-UAS (C-UAS) and Counter-Rocket, Artillery and Mortars [Counter-RAM] (C-RAM).

The Army doesn't know *exactly* what the precise mix of components will be; they bought two battalions of Iron Dome (now going to Israel) for use as an interim Cruise Missile Defense (CMD) system.

ENDURING SHIELD is the codename for one "final" Cruise Missile Defense System -- it's basically a palletized ground launcher for the AIM-9X Sidewinder. 16 launchers and 40 missiles will be received and tested in 2024.

The Army is taking their time to figure out IFPC to find out exactly what mix of weapons are needed -- i.e. the precise balance of missiles vs lasers vs high power microwave weapons -- because even the US can't afford to spend $400K per shot [rough cost of AIM-9X] on every target.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Latest drone news...

...supposedly, the Ukrainians are now using robot boats to transport jammers into the middle of the Dneipr river to prevent Russian FPV Drone attacks on Ukrainian boats/troops crossing the Dneipr or on the other bank.

Previous attempts to protect crossings with fixed jammers resulted in said jammers eating Iskander-M SRBMs.

BMP-3s *may* get a built in drone jammer

https://twitter.com/Shaimurato13576/...01415154032934

Drones in the battlefield are now beginning to incorporate shielding to partially negate GPS jamming:

https://twitter.com/DanielR33187703/...21895138537964

Russian Drone workshops assembling drones in videos are now showing a metal can on a rod -- it appears to be a shielding device that protects GPS receivers from jamming coming from below, while the top is open, allowing GPS signals to be received.