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-   -   Updates in light of Ukraine war (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=52845)

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 3rd, 2022 09:19 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Not one to go back and forth to this wonderful video, here's the written companion to the video.
https://tankrecognition.blogspot.com...cognition.html

To the German offer of BMP-1 I can assure you Germany will not give non refurbished equipment to Ukraine if for no other reasons that it would both embarrass and cause criticism them.

And there are also international legal issues that could arise. And most important it might also adversely affect their foreign weapons sales.

That being said, they wouldn't have to offer to upgrade them in any way.

That will be the thing to keep track of, if they do.

As already posted KMW was offering from their private stock around 50-55 GEPHARPS SPAA systems, it was indicated they would update the radar systems and possibly the FCS as well. They of the latest version that last served in the BUNDESWEHR.

I would not be surprised if we don't see them in country within the next 3-4 months and 6 months (We call that "hedging your bet(s)") at the outside. ;)

And now we have this (I hope there'll be no reprisals but...) and BUCHA also.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...id=mailsignout

Makes me glad I served under the seas compared to some... never mind.

Regards
Pat
:capt:

Karagin April 3rd, 2022 10:44 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 852114)
Not one to go back and forth to this wonderful video, here's the written companion to the video.
https://tankrecognition.blogspot.com...cognition.html

To the German offer of BMP-1 I can assure you Germany will not give non refurbished equipment to Ukraine if for no other reasons that it would both embarrass and cause criticism them.

And there are also international legal issues that could arise. And most important it might also adversely affect their foreign weapons sales.

That being said, they wouldn't have to offer to upgrade them in any way.

That will be the thing to keep track of, if they do.

As already posted KMW was offering from their private stock around 50-55 GEPHARPS SPAA systems, it was indicated they would update the radar systems and possibly the FCS as well. They of the latest version that last served in the BUNDESWEHR.

I would not be surprised if we don't see them in country within the next 3-4 months and 6 months (We call that "hedging your bet(s)") at the outside. ;)

And now we have this (I hope there'll be no reprisals but...) and BUCHA also.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...id=mailsignout

Makes me glad I served under the seas compared to some... never mind.

Regards
Pat
:capt:

Saw on Facebook that these BMPs are going to the Czech Republic and then to Ukraine. I am sure that they will be in wonderful condition and functional, unlike the MANPADs Germany sent.

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 4th, 2022 12:22 AM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Yeah, that was stupid and yes, an embarrassment. I wish I could still speck or read German to see if there was any fallout from that.

It goes against my "inherited" sense of efficiency and organization!?!

It'll be interesting to see within the next few weeks what other weapons get into the Ukraine such as those Czech Republic T-72M and S-300 systems from Slovenia I believe I posted already.

I've paid more attention to those videos looking very closely at the camo paint schemes on both countries armor. Well that Armor modeling site has absolutely got it right from what I've seen to date. That was a day or two ago.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 4th, 2022 03:08 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
You computer guys might like this.
A little play on an Old School song "Hackers Delight" as they've very active in Russia of late...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...out&li=BBnbfcL

Also, since this was posted seems there's some unconfirmed stories Russia has shot down a handful or less of their fighters.

But the following is confirmed story deals with why Russia is using one of their best fighter bombers to drop "DUMB" bombs in Ukraine? Also how good is it's EW after reading this?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...0e4766abfb1bda
http://www.military-today.com/aircra...4_fullback.htm


I think I'm taking the rest of the day off, OK MAYBE!?!
Regards,
Pat
:capt:

wulfir April 4th, 2022 04:13 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
I think the German BMP-1s are ex Swedish PBV 501s.

In the 90s Sweden bought discount ex NVA kit from Germany, MTLB and BMP-1s to give infantry brigades shrapnel protection. The BMP-1s were initially meant for use in northern Sweden IIRC but the narrow tracks did poorly in snow. The MTLB (Pbv 401 saw use, but have since been sold to Finland).

The PBV 501s were modified but never really used by any units. Eventually sold back to the Czech company that did the modifications. I heard some of them went to equip the new Iraqi army. I guess they had some left.

DRG April 4th, 2022 05:59 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
This is for anyone who is Ukrainian or can read Ukrainian or has access to the kind of data apparently ONLY WE USE

How many troops in a Ukrainian platoon?

I think it is three sections of 8

crappy translation
Quote:

The company of protection of the military commissariat has the following structure:

• management of the company
• 4 platoons of protection
number of company 121 persons

Right now I have that as close as the game can be with 4 plt's in a Coy and a command and some support units but it is near impossible to find a breakdown at the company -> section level and right now I feel what I have in there now for the Territorials is " good enough" but if anyone knows of a source let me know where it is ASAP

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 4th, 2022 08:00 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
This is "live" from these refs...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...unded-26632401
Artem said: “We were in a reconnaissance group of about 35 soldiers, and we laid a trap, getting ready to attack them and then opened fire.

3 Battalions in a Brigade
https://www.ukrmilitary.com/p/ukrain...nd-forces.html

Went to their Defense Ministry and there's no help there.

Didn't do Wiki but pops on on my search variations.

Following though off topic came up on one or two of searches might be useful for a campaign builder.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...ukraine-crisis

Losing my light maybe a BRISK walk will clear my head on a different approach to the question.

Pat

Imp April 5th, 2022 02:41 AM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Some Observations
I think quite a lot of the Russian tanks are not fully equipped as in none functional ERA & pre Arena active defence systems are not very good.
Does it need to be looking in the direction the shot is coming from to work?
Reasoning for this.
During Chechenia some tanks were definitely deployed without ERA & I do not remember active protection systems being very effective then.

From photographic evidence two things tend to happen when tanks are hit.
Either catastrophic ammo explosion & flying turrets, seems to happen to virtually all tanks involved in that engagement.
I would postulate despite looking like they have ERA they are not functional.
The other result is the tank being penetrated or despite the fact its a flank shot surviving the first 1 or 2 attacks. These do not initially blow up though they might do so later but the crew often have time to get out.
These have ERA it can stop shots & if penetrated it absorbs a lot of the energy hence no ammo cook off. As they may explode later I would also say fire suppression capability is poor.
Game terms survivability should be less in tanks with no or limited ERA.

To me if you think about it both outfitting the vehicles & training suffer due to the size of the army. Your not talking about outfitting a couple hundred or even a few thousand tanks like Western countries.
The cost would be prohibitive as would training them all to a decent standard. Training rounds for example how many would you need to train everyone to a decent level, then of course there is maintenance costs.

Game terms you would need another OOB troop & tank quality could vary greatly in my view. Also I think Russia expected the Ukraine to just give up when faced with an army of that size, I would bet a lot of the tanks involved in the military exercise are lacking their ERA.


On APS I have only seen 1 tank equipped with a modern active protection system & that looked like it was destroyed by artillery.
Also ATGM use seems rare possibly due to the nature of most engagements. My guess RPG type weapons are preferred because you can pop out take the shot & run.

For me the jury is out I do not know if Arena on is effective or not.
Game terms we have 2 systems I think one should remain as is to represent things like Trophy & possibly Arena & the other should be really dumbed down.

These are just observations make of them what you will not researched anything.

As a side note the Ukraine air force seems to be surviving by using the roads & nape of the earth. Laughed when I saw the fighter that returned with a road sign attached, they are flying low.

DRG April 5th, 2022 05:39 AM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
1 Attachment(s)
Andy and I are of the opinion that, in Ukraine at least, Arena installation is NOT as common as was thought and I have, for the game AI anyway, made Arena tanks radio code 91 ( rare ) and introduced some versions without it that are radio code 92 (common ) which cuts down on the number of them showing up under AI control

What I had been lead to believe was the later gen arena launchers appear now to be just smoke grenade launchers

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1649151352

So it would appear the effectiveness or lack of in regards to Arena is more a case of it just not being installed in the majority

OR given most of the wrecks ***appear*** to have been made that way from attacks to the side it is just not that effective from that direction

OR

all or any of the above

Wdll April 5th, 2022 08:23 AM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Never expected to see this in reality, but here is footage of something it's not that uncommon in the game.
An ATGM shooting down a helo.

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status...UovUD7zvlfDdgg


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