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-   -   Updates in light of Ukraine war (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=52845)

Wdll May 10th, 2022 03:41 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jp10 (Post 852549)
I have noticed that few of the destroyed Russian armor seemed to be trying to use the terrain in a hull-down position. I believe the game does do Hull-down calculations based on adjoining hex terrain and a % but it is shot by shot, not a long term bonus like being in an emplacement.
Russian tanks because of their low profile and auto loaders do not as easily hull-down. Perhaps one take-away from the current news is this ability should not be allowed for those post T-55 era tanks built like that. (T-55/62/64/72/80...etc).
Also as each shot is displayed could a color/symbol/text indicate if a non-penetration was due to a hull-down advantage?

Well if I learned one thing about Soviet made tanks is that they do "fantastically well" in dug in positions when they are facing anything that isn't unarmed civilians.

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 10th, 2022 04:15 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Not much if any advantage against a "top attack" weapon.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

lansoar May 10th, 2022 09:57 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Talking politics in real time, esp in the age of Information is a tricky affair. One thing I've learned from studying "War" is that there is rarely, if ever a white hat/black hat situation.

I am not justifying Russia's decision to invade. Personally I think its wrong. It sets a dangerous precedent. One the world knows only all too well from back in the 1930s. If we are honest however we know that wars like this have continued since the War to End all Wars, and the War after that. Heck, this game is devoted to simulating such conflicts. When I heard the news of the invasion, I felt that sick feeling...a feeling that I might be seeing the beginning of the end of what has been largely a big standoff since 1945 that has kept the peace.....overall, at least in terms of WWIII, nuclear bombs and all. There's always a smaller war going on somewhere. Some not so small but the "main players" were in the background.

That being said.....I'm reminded of Desert Storm. It was my first "war" as a real time civilian spectator. Having built a decent reputation speaking on past military matters with the wisdom of "hindsight" and having access to a lot more "Facts" than many will have when events are occurring as one speaks, I found myself suddenly, when asked "so what happens now?" to be at bit of a loss. Armchair Quarterbacking in it's finest form.

funny thing I also later learned about facts while doing Dev work. Its the ultimate buzz word on forums. Reality is, as I see it at least....is that Facts don't say anything. People use "facts", (when they are facts that is...) to make opinions......or create arguments, conclusions, etc etc. So after 20 years of seeing people at times get heated or try to needle others by saying things like "Well obviously you don't believe in facts...." or "The Facts say otherwise", I learned to counter such by saying simply. "no...I'm not arguing against the facts....I'm arguing against you....and your interpretation of said or alleged facts". Whether I'm right or wrong in my thoughts, I at least took away the Mantle of Truth veneer that the other person or persons were trying so hard to present.

Anyway. Just tossing that out there given its feeling a bit heated in this thread. Its a real time situation. people have strong opinions.

I would pose a rhetorical question though. I'm genuinely interested in reading some viewpoints on this.

Looking at the situation from Russia's viewpoint....is there a justification for the fear at the prospect of having members of a large Military Alliance at their borders along a wide front? Historically the USSR was big on "buffer states". The loss of Ukraine alone I can see how that would disenchant Russian leaders. Add the threat of NATO membership in the mix. Was the West perhaps a little too coy and/or inflexible? Or was a diplomatic solution never in the mix?

While NATO was at it's base an "Alliance", the same could be said of the Warsaw Pact. Both sides had their buffers. Sometimes I think things were simpler back in the 80s....if I can forget the same sense of fear of what "might happen" that was present.

Wdll May 11th, 2022 04:25 AM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
General question.
If someone steals the bike of a neighbour, does that justify me, a third person, doing the same or worse, to someone else? Would that stand in a court? Ethically? Asking for a friend. If someone defends me from doing this, how much of a douche do they sound like?

webego May 11th, 2022 12:20 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
In this world, everyone should be prohibited from stealing bicycles, or everyone should be allowed.
The law is one for all (ideal situation).
But a rich and strong dad can always negotiate with the judge (like in a movie about bad guys).

Wdll May 11th, 2022 03:33 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by webego (Post 852566)
In this world, everyone should be prohibited from stealing bicycles, or everyone should be allowed.
The law is one for all (ideal situation).
But a rich and strong dad can always negotiate with the judge (like in a movie about bad guys).

1. I asked you to not reply to me again. I don't chat with tools.

DRG May 11th, 2022 05:25 PM

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 
This thread is now shut down as it has become far too political and adversarial.

That ends now. Comments/ suggestions regarding the game or OOB errors or news that impacts the game are welcome everything else not so much


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