.com.unity Forums

.com.unity Forums (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/index.php)
-   Space Empires: IV & V (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=9755)

Atrocities June 26th, 2003 09:43 PM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Scipio those are really good points, thank you. And thanks Fyron, The USM is a must have.

Captain Kwok June 26th, 2003 10:55 PM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Scipio:

In response to your thoughts, this was some of the reasoning behind what I choose...

The Federation would not have relatively good ground troops - overall the Federation is non-combative and their experience would be less than other races that have fought frequent wars. This is also the same reasoning behind the ship defense and attack bonuses. Did you ever see the Federation ships dropping like flies in many DS9 battles? Plus, if we based the Federation exclusively on what we saw in Star Trek - we'd have to give them bonuses in everything and that would be a balance issue against the other races.

The Klingons have a distaste for science and hence why there research is low. Keep in mind also that the Klingons have been in space much longer than the Federation, but have advanced at a much slower rate. The production bonus is appropriate to the warrior race motif, and really doesn't make much difference anyways. The Klingons do enjoy some good combat bonuses which during early testing did help in battle.

The Romulan shipyard rate was set lower because they spend a lot of resources building oversized Warbirds that have a seemingly poor combat record for what you'd expect them to do. The Romulans are also portrayed as rather secretive and isolationist, so why would they be out and about trading so much? The honorable demeanor could be changed, but Romulans hold honor in more an individual patroitic sort of way.

The Dominion didn't really trade in the Gamma Quadrant...it was more like extortion. The increase in shipyard rate would help pump out more smaller attack ships, but wouldn't really make a difference with big ships due to their high cost.

I suppose the points about Cardassians are somewhat valid, but then again the Cardassians are a much more militaristic culture and it would seem reasonable to believe that they are better trained in combat situations than the typical starfleet officer. I gave them +5 for intelligence since they seemed quite renowned for it and plus, they needed a bit of a bonus somewhere else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Remember, not all spying is done undercover...don't you remember Quark - seemed he knew lots about everything - Ferengi deal in information a lot you know!

The Borg can and do research - although it's true that most of the stuff they get is assimilated. Being truthful, you could give the Borg culture bonuses for almost everything if you think about it. I believe the shield depleter and tractor beam are different, and anyways you couldn't assign a se4 weapon with both those abilities anyway.

Scipio June 27th, 2003 12:42 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Kwok:

It was often said, and written in the ,,Tech" books that the Federation Shields are awesome strong, this was so in every StarTrek game too.
And the Federation soldiers are no soldiers but all have an excellent training, thats one of their main points.

The Klingons surley dont worthship research as much fighting, but they had several good scientist in Star Trek, to compare with the Federation is not fair, because the Federation is the best researching race by far. The Klingons also developed some Techs the Federation took ofer later (Photon Torpedos...) and they are not badder than the Romulans/Vulcans although they were even less time in space then them.

The Romulans build at least these large Warbirds, and in wich numbers! That they are poor fighters (at least they match the Galaxyclass and Neg`Var class) shouldn`t be a cause to build less of them. And Romulans are the treachery race per excellance even in their own society, see how the high ranks are given...

You are right with the Dominion.

The Cardassians always need a boost http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif but see they were conquered by the Klingons, defeated by the Federation and the minor partner of the Dominon. I think at least they should have a point less than the Rom/Dom. And again the Card count mass more than quality and do not worthship a single beeing (Communists/Stalinists). I dont know what to do with them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif but they should have bad Production/Happy and neutral Strenght in ship/ground, Communism just dont works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You are right with the Ferengis but this work but then they would be as good as Fed/Kling.

Right with the Borg, bad you cant make a weapon out of it.

Again I like your work very much, just a few ideas.

openair June 27th, 2003 01:03 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
personally, 1on1, fed troops should be stronger, but WAY more expensive...

think personal shield generators, phaser rifles, photon genernades, ect...

vs some armor, bat'leth, and a disruptor, maybe a knife, ect...

[ June 27, 2003, 00:04: Message edited by: openair ]

Scipio June 27th, 2003 01:28 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Wonderful you continue this great idea.

I saw the Star Trek Mod and the graphics are very nice, espacally the leader pictures (very cute).

Thank you you do all this work.

Scipio June 27th, 2003 01:28 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Doublepost, sorry.

I just will make another post out of it now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

May I ask how much you will copy the original Star Trek mod?

I looked through the original one and:
I saw there should be a Borg Tractor beam:
Quote:

Borg Tractor Beam I-III [Beam; Pulls Target]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And I tought every race should have a tractor beam best if it is small (like 1kt) because there are nearly no ships without it in Star Trek, further it should be a Repulser and Tractor beam at once. The Borg tractor beam should be the same but larger and shield depleting (as it was in TNG).
Then I saw the race statistics.
Federation:
Quote:

Production -2 Research +4 Intelligence -4 Trade +4 Happiness +3
Space Combat -2 Ground Combat -4 Shipyard Rate +1 Repair +1 Maintenance +1
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wonder about the ground combat because the federation soldiers are not very hard but not that bad in my oppionon, further the Federation ships are only science ships but also very good warships, because of their strong defense/shields. So they should have a bad offense and a good defense.

Klingons:
Quote:

Production -3 Research -4 Intelligence -3 Trade -2 Happiness +3
Space Combat +4 Ground Combat +5 Shipyard Rate -1 Repair -1 Maintenance +2
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The poor Klingons! I can understand why the should produce so little and are so bad at research. Sure they are not very smart but a research malus of -2 would fit more and why this high production malus? I think an 0 would be best as they worship hard work much too.

Romulans:
Quote:

Production +3 Research +1 Intelligence +5 Trade -4 Happiness -3
Space Combat +3 Ground Combat +2 Shipyard Rate -2 Repair 0 Maintenance -1
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think the romulans have so many Warbirds in their fleet, they should be able to have at least a neutral shipyard rate wich would fit the production bonus more. And I dont think the romulans are such poor trades -2 or -1 would be better. And I think the romulans should be agressiv not honorable (wich they are absolutly not)

Dominion:
Quote:

Production 0 Research -2 Intelligence +5 Trade -5 Happiness -4
Space Combat +3 Ground Combat +5 Shipyard Rate +2 Repair -3 Maintenance -3
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Didn`t they say in Star Trek that the dominion did much trade in the Gamma Quadrant? I am unsure.
And I think the Dominion has many small ships and few large, wouldn`t that speak for a negative ShipRate?

Cardassia:
Quote:

Production -2 Research 0 Intelligence +5 Trade -2 Happiness -3
Space Combat +3 Ground Combat +3 Shipyard Rate +2 Repair 0 Maintenance -2
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In Star Trek they said that the Cardassians are not much stronger than the humans (GC +3?) and that they depend on many weak but numerous ships (SC +3?) also they are good at Intelleigence but not as good as the Dominion and Romulans!

Ferngi:
Quote:

Production +3 Research -3 Intelligence +2 Trade +5 Happiness +3
Space Combat -5 Ground Combat -5 Shipyard Rate 0 Repair 0 Maintenance -3
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I cant belive Ferengis are good spies, they look differnent and will betray everyone for some money. I just cant imagine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Borg:
Quote:

Production +3 Research 0 Intelligence -5 Trade -10 Happiness 0
Space Combat 0 Ground Combat 0 Shipyard Rate +3 Repair +5 Maintenance +5
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do the Borg research at all? I think they steal all technology? At least they should be worse than klingons.

And further I think all other Races like the Breen should be not as good as the others just gap filler (Ice planets for the Breen)

I just thought that and thought it may help to hear someone to that, and I want to say that I love what is still left from the Original Star Trek mod...

[ June 26, 2003, 15:27: Message edited by: Scipio ]

TerranC June 27th, 2003 01:56 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:

Originally posted by openair:
personally, 1on1, fed troops should be stronger, but WAY more expensive...

think personal shield generators, phaser rifles, photon genernades, ect...

vs some armor, bat'leth, and a disruptor, maybe a knife, ect...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd like to remind you that Federation Troops get slaughtered against confrontations with the Jem'Hadar, Klingons, The Borg, and Cardassians. That, to me, doesn't sound like the best troops in the whole galaxy.

openair June 27th, 2003 03:20 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
when have we seen them slaughtered? against overwelming odds.. yes...

but one fed to one klink, the klinks gonna go down
not at close range, but in a normal battle sittuation, 1on1, klinks going down...

the fed don't field many troops, but what ones they do are very well armed, and experienced... i know they're games, but think elite force, and incursion (i think? the holo cloak ship game...)

but the klingons could probably build 3 times as many for the space price...

use different troops classes dependent on the race technogies... fed being far more expiense, for a little more room... klingon being slightly smaller but cheaper...

[ June 27, 2003, 02:22: Message edited by: openair ]

General Woundwort June 27th, 2003 04:23 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:

Originally posted by openair:
personally, 1on1, fed troops should be stronger, but WAY more expensive...

think personal shield generators, phaser rifles, photon genernades, ect...

vs some armor, bat'leth, and a disruptor, maybe a knife, ect...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote - "If you load a mudfoot down with a lot of gadgets that he has to watch, somebody a lot more simply equipped - say with a stone ax - will sneak up and bash his head in while he is trying to read a vernier." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

or if that doesn't change your mind, remember the Fuzzy Wuzzy Fallacy - if side A has 2X raw firepower as compared with side B, it actually only equates to (square root of 2)X more firepower... assuming that one shot from either side kills just as dead.

openair June 27th, 2003 04:46 AM

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
who said anything about gadgets, i hardly call a personal forced field for example a gadget...

and quotes that only barely relate make for great debate! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2022, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.