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-   World Supremacy (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=230)
-   -   Fed Up (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47483)

ScottWAR June 6th, 2011 12:11 PM

Fed Up
 
Ok, After waiting way too long for this game to get fixed so that it is at least playable enough for a released game,...I have given up.

The game is STILL not ready for release. The AI cant put up a fight against a chimp making random moves,..much less a human.

I have waited and waited patiently. During that time we have received almost exclusively silence, except for a brief period of a whole week where we were assured the game would get fixed,......so what happened? It most assuredly isnt fixed. Putting a hubcap on a car that has one wheel on it doesnt fix the problem,...we still need the other three wells.

So I decided to try Shrapnels customer support to demand a refund for a defective product that DOES NOT work as advertised. What I found is that shrapnel has some roundabout process of support, that is without a doubt designed to keep people from contacting support. They say that you dont need an account to get support,...but I find no way whatsoever to contcact support without making one of their accounts.

So I am going to give Shrapnel one week to respond to this post telling me either how to go about getting a refund for this unfinished prduct or by telling me how to navigate the support process without having to create yet another account.

If I am not given this info,...or once I manage to contact support if I am not given a refund,....I will be filing a formal complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Anyone else who is fed up with the lack of progress and communcation about this unfinished piece of software that is being marketed as finished,....I would encourage you to do the same.

Here is the website to make the complaint at..........
http://ftc.gov/

Just click on 'consumer complaint' in the menu on the right and tell them the truth about this game, and the comlplete lack of concern about stealing our money that Shrapnel has shown.

spillblood June 7th, 2011 06:02 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Hey, ScottWAR, have you bought the game in physical form or as a download. Because I tried to get a refund on another game by Shrapnel once. They don't give any refunds for downloaded games. That's their official policy. You can ask customer support to confirm that. I think you'd really need to sue them to get a refund, which would be pretty expensive, I guess.

spillblood June 7th, 2011 06:10 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
To give you more info on my try to get a refund: I requested a refund for BCT Commander, because that game simply isn't optimized for Windows XP (and Vista) at all, and you can't form task forces without setting the keyboard to US-settings, which is pretty annoying. For example, the game always maximizes to full screen size without regarding the taskbar, so you have to unlock the taskbar, shift it down and shrink the window each time you open the game (which is ****ing annoying). It also is sold for a price that is much too high for such an old game, I think. I didn't manage to get a refund on that.

ScottWAR June 7th, 2011 01:58 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
The game is available as a download only,....and I dont care about their policy.....U.S. law supercedes it.
We have been more than patient and at some point we have to say enough is enough. We were promised the AI would be fixed,...it was improved,...but is still FAR from being anywhere near acceptable.
We ask for more information,...if their are going to be furher improvements to the AI,...and are met with silence yet again.
Since they have decided not to tell us anything,......yet again,...I feel we have no choice but to do something to get their attention. I have found in the past when a department of the U.S Government informs someone they have recieved a complaint and would like some information from them, that it is amazing how quickly they get off their arse and do something.
Maybe we will get some info before I have to file a complaint. If I see something being done to fix the game I wouldnt want a refund,...but at this point the patches are coming WAY too slow and doing FAR too little.

spillblood June 8th, 2011 07:26 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
I absolutely agree with you. Compared to other Indie strategy games I own it is too unfinished and not really fun to play, because there's no challenge involved (in single player). Compare it to Armada 2526 (a 4X space strategy game by Ntronium games I own) for example, that's a really fine game far more polished than World Supremacy, and it had a better AI even in the first released version, and they released patches regularly and ironed out all the bugs it had. Additionally, there was far more info by the Developers on the forums. World Supremacy has been an absolute disappointment so far.
Shrapnel absolutely shouldn't advertise single player. It simply has one of the worst AIs I've ever seen, and the last patch didn't really fix that, it just turned it from absolutely abysmal to bad. They should absolutely change the game page. The good reviews they show there are obviously from people who didn't play the game for a longer time (I've also seen bad reviews, by the way).

ScottWAR June 8th, 2011 09:56 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Yeah,.....its a shame too, as there is a really good game screaming to get out.

The silence is the real problem. Since the release of the game we havent heard one single word from the developer himself,........not that we ever heard from him before,........and aside from the 'cha-ching' when we handed over our money, the ony thing we have heard period from Shrapnel is the promise that there was a patch being worked on that would fix the problems. One patch later,...there is some improvement,...but nowhere near enough to consider the game even ready for release much less 'finished',.....and once again we ask if this is going to be fixed,......and once again there is silence.
If this were EA,...I would just chalk it up to me taking a known risk and it panning out as expected,........... I thought Shrapnel was better than this,.....but I guess I was wrong.

spillblood June 8th, 2011 10:05 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
I still hope there'll be another patch. Malfador can't leave the game in this state, and it definitely was fun in the first games I played and in the games I played when the beta patches and V 1.09 came out. But just look at the last comments in the bug report thread. Seems people have already written off this game (which is also shown in the lack of posts here in the forum). Hehe, advertising moddability on a game that no one finds enjoyable enough (and which isn't fully finished) is pretty funny, I think.
Maybe I should write another E-Mail to Malf, like I've done many times before.

Ok, just wrote another mail. Let's see what Aaron has to say. I've pointed out that many people here are pretty annoyed and have written off the game.

spillblood June 9th, 2011 07:19 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Hey, just wanna cite his answer E-Mail here: "As time permits, we may do another patch for World Supremacy. Honestly,
there hasn't been a lot of demand for it.
Aaron"
I think that's a sign that most people have written off this game and no one plays it anymore.

Skirmisher June 9th, 2011 11:28 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spillblood (Post 778517)
Hey, just wanna cite his answer E-Mail here: "As time permits, we may do another patch for World Supremacy. Honestly,
there hasn't been a lot of demand for it.
Aaron"
I think that's a sign that most people have written off this game and no one plays it anymore.

That doesn't sound like a guy that really cares. lol

ScottWAR June 9th, 2011 03:18 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Are you kidding me?

I guess he doesnt understand that IF the game wasnt so unfinished there might actually be more demand?

I guess those of us who wasted our money on this game just dont matter?

Fine.

I will make sure I emphasize his response when I file my complaint monday.

Hopefully someone at Shrapnel will give hima call and let him know that his lack of concern for fixing his game is going to hurt Shrapnels reputation and he needs to fix it or face some kind of concequences.

If SOMETHING doesnt happen this will be the third and last game I buy from shrapnel.

JCrowe June 9th, 2011 05:36 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Wow. So many ways to comment, so little breath to spare.

Sad to say, Aaron's assessment is probably accurate - for all the wrong reasons. Put a turd sandwich on your menu, and call me Captain Crazy, but I'll go out on a limb here and guess that demand for a change in the recipe will be low. Because no one will be buying one in the first place. Adding cilantro and a dash of salt just won't cut it. But replace "turd" with "pulled-pork barbeque and bacon-cheese" and you might have yourself a white-hot best seller.

Instead, we've got crash - burn - suck.

That and a bag of grievances. And more than a little wonderment. Questions I would ask, and expect we'll never know:

1.) Why would you launch a new product for the holiday season that was so woefully incomplete, thus maximizing the exposure of your flaws to the very public you hope to court?

2.) Why (HOW?) could you consider it a 'finished' work, unworthy of updating and correction, and due for general abandonment, after having made such a huge (? - I would presume...) investment in its initial creation? You mix the batter but don't bake the cake?

3.) What other project over there so consumes the balance of their time, that no attention can be paid to a flagship (?) product? What is this 'next great thing' that now so occupies their minds? What incredibly cool piece of candy is the ol' Wonka factory over there tweaking for release?

4.) And lastly, why do they think their customer base is going to throw down dollars on New Thing!! (With Sparkles!) when their last big showhorse was allowed to suck air and die as they stood by and watched? Really. This isn't the kind of confidence-building precedent a business wants to set. GM & Chrysler tried it for 40 years and it's still not working.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - it's a shame. This game had real potential. And unfortunately, it appears that potential is all that it will ever have.

Mike_T June 10th, 2011 04:19 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Fantastic summing up, JCrowe. You're absolutely spot on.

Is anyone else underwhelmed by the deafening silence from Shrapnel on this thread?

spillblood June 10th, 2011 05:09 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Yeah, the silence of Shrapnel is pretty suspicious. But I think they'd rather close this thread than discuss with us. Just look at their last response to a thread about customer relations. I'm getting pretty angry at them.
Hehe, but when you think about it, Aaron is pretty right with his mail, making a patch for only two or three people who are still interested in the game (like me and JCrowe) really doesn't mean a lot of demand. Man, I'm thinking about taking that Federal Complaint action ScottWar suggested, but I'm not sure if this is of any use (and I'm not a US citizen, so complaining to a US federal institution might not be right for me).

spillblood June 10th, 2011 05:13 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
As far as I'm concerned: This game is a failure, and I'm not sure if it can still be saved, because it doesn't get much support from the community any more, cause there is no real community. Most people aren't interested in this game anymore, and I think new customers will turn to other games pretty fast as soon as they realize how bad WS is. I think most of them won't discuss this game in the forum.

spillblood June 10th, 2011 05:18 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
I think a good cause of action would be that all people who still have interest in the game and want it to be finished should contact Aaron directly via ws@malfador.com. Using Shrapnel customer support is absolutely useless in this case. Maybe he'll realize that there's still a demand for a new patch if enough people email him. Another way would be to make a petition to Malfador or Shrapnel for another patch. We must take action if we want this game to be fixed, I think.

Mike_T June 10th, 2011 06:33 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Dear Shrapnel

Will you please respond constructively to the issues raised in this thread. If you continue to remain silent, people will assume that you don't care about your customers. If the game should be sidelined, why not just say so? All game publishers have the occasional failure - it's not the end of the world.

spillblood June 10th, 2011 11:23 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Maybe we should try to pm S.R. Krol or another guy from the Shrapnel team. I'll try.
Just sent him a personal message. Please enable personal messages in your forum options. They are disabled by default. Had to enable them. Would be good if you also try to contact those guys. We really need to do something.

ScottWAR June 10th, 2011 11:38 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_T (Post 778590)
All game publishers have the occasional failure - it's not the end of the world.

I shouldnt be expected to foot the bill for someones elses failure. In fact,...when a product is a failure (doesnt work as advertised) you are legally entitled to a refund.

spilblood...........As for not living in the U.S.A.,...Shrapnel is an american company,and must abide by U.S. law. The F.T.C. is the department of the U.S Government whose responsibility it is to ensure they are abiding by those laws,...no matter where they sell their product. So , a complaint to he FTC from you will be taken seriously even though you dont live in the U.S.A. . in fact,....since you dont live in the U.S.A it may well be taken MORE seriously.


Edit- just saw your edit above spillblood....Trust me,...There is no way Shrapnel doesnt know how badly unfinished this game is. At this point I think they are just hoping we go away.

spillblood June 10th, 2011 11:41 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Yeah, I think I'll try this, but I've to formulate my complaint carefully. Maybe tomorrow, don't know yet. Do you know if any of the other guys has tried yet?

spillblood June 10th, 2011 11:45 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottWAR (Post 778610)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_T (Post 778590)
All game publishers have the occasional failure - it's not the end of the world.

Edit- just saw your edit above spillblood....Trust me,...There is no way Shrapnel doesnt know how badly unfinished this game is. At this point I think they are just hoping we go away.

Yeah, I'm sure they know. And they advertise this game as if it's finished and completely OK. That's the biggest problem, I think.
By the way, I also bought three Shrapnel games so far. WS is the second one. BCT Commander was even more disappointing so far 'cause you can't really get into it without military training (total nerd game), and it's old and not optimized for XP. WS at least is playable (but sucks gameplay-wise). The game i was most satisfied with so far is Remote Assault, which I've ordered in physical form (very cool RTS with kick-*** AI, bad graphics though).

Skirmisher June 10th, 2011 12:57 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
I think the most amazing thing is this.

Everybody basically agree's the game isn't finished and is a failure.

Yet it's still being sold.

ScottWAR June 10th, 2011 03:17 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skirmisher (Post 778615)
I think the most amazing thing is this.

Everybody basically agree's the game isn't finished and is a failure.

Yet it's still being sold.

Yep. And dont forget the developer has basically said he isnt going to do any more patches....... because "there is no demand for it",....well duh,..... is it surprising there is no demand for a game thats so unfinished?
And what about the suckers,...er um customers, that have already paid for the game? I guess the money we spent just isnt as important now that he and Shrapnel has it.....

ScottWAR June 12th, 2011 11:45 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Ok,... 24 hours until I file a complaint.

Shrapnel has had 7 days to respond to this and hasnt. I think thats more than enough proof that shrapnel just doesnt care about their customers or the quality of their games. I will make sure I put it the complaint about the repeated,..prolonged silence from them regarding the sad shape this game is in, even while every single person on the forums is upset.

Has anyone noticed there isnt even one single deluded fanboy defending this game. I think THAT says more than anything. I have never saw a game that didnt have at least one fanboy claiming it was great no mattter what. When 100 % of the people talking about your game are saying its horribly unfinished,...you should listen.

I think I am also going to pass this info, and a link to the forums on to a few gaming media/news sites so they can see for themselves just how bad the game is and how silent shrapnel and Malfador have been. Hopefully they will put out an article to let everyone know just how badly Aaron, Malfador Machinations, and Shrapnel have decided to ignore their customers and their responsibilities. Maybe when they see enough sales being lost across the board becasue they loise the trust of the community they will wake up and relize its not wise to screw over your customers.

spillblood June 12th, 2011 12:18 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Wanna notify you, I've written another mail to Aaron today, and I've notified S.R. Krol and Tim Brooks, to get them to give a statement here. If they don't that's simply another sign that they don't care, and that we should do something against them.
To the idea of posting info about the game: Do that, I've already done that in some forums of other Indie strategy games I own (warned them of the bad quality of the game), because I've accidentally praised the game when I first got it (but it was good at first, until I noticed the flaws and AI bugs). That was last year, in October or November, I think. Please tell them of the lack of support etc, I've not done that yet (only about the bad AI etc., and that was before the 1.09 patch, when it was absolutely ****ty, but it's still very bad).
I've just replied to my old posts in other forums from last year praising the game and changed them into warnings.

Mike_T June 12th, 2011 02:39 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottWAR (Post 778730)
Ok,... 24 hours until I file a complaint.

Shrapnel has had 7 days to respond to this and hasnt. I think thats more than enough proof that shrapnel just doesnt care about their customers or the quality of their games. I will make sure I put it the complaint about the repeated,..prolonged silence from them regarding the sad shape this game is in, even while every single person on the forums is upset.

Has anyone noticed there isnt even one single deluded fanboy defending this game. I think THAT says more than anything. I have never saw a game that didnt have at least one fanboy claiming it was great no mattter what. When 100 % of the people talking about your game are saying its horribly unfinished,...you should listen.

I think I am also going to pass this info, and a link to the forums on to a few gaming media/news sites so they can see for themselves just how bad the game is and how silent shrapnel and Malfador have been. Hopefully they will put out an article to let everyone know just how badly Aaron, Malfador Machinations, and Shrapnel have decided to ignore their customers and their responsibilities. Maybe when they see enough sales being lost across the board becasue they loise the trust of the community they will wake up and relize its not wise to screw over your customers.

Best of luck with your complaints. In my experience in business (more years than I care to admit to!) a company that refuses to deal with customers' complaints is a company with problems. :down:

ScottWAR June 12th, 2011 02:40 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Maybe we will get some responce. Even if its an acknowledgment that the game is dead development wise.

I would like to get a refund if thats the case, becasue the game still is not even close to being considered a finished,..or even finished enough product.

But at this point just some kind of response period would be nice.

I'm not really surprised though. I have filed two complaints with the FTC,...and when I threatened that action I was met with the exact same response......silence. After I filed the complaints though the silence ended in both cases. Its just a shame thats the length you have to go to in order to get a company to not ignore their customers. I really thought Shrapnel and Malfador was better than this.

ScottWAR June 12th, 2011 02:46 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_T (Post 778739)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottWAR (Post 778730)
Ok,... 24 hours until I file a complaint.

Shrapnel has had 7 days to respond to this and hasnt. I think thats more than enough proof that shrapnel just doesnt care about their customers or the quality of their games. I will make sure I put it the complaint about the repeated,..prolonged silence from them regarding the sad shape this game is in, even while every single person on the forums is upset.

Has anyone noticed there isnt even one single deluded fanboy defending this game. I think THAT says more than anything. I have never saw a game that didnt have at least one fanboy claiming it was great no mattter what. When 100 % of the people talking about your game are saying its horribly unfinished,...you should listen.

I think I am also going to pass this info, and a link to the forums on to a few gaming media/news sites so they can see for themselves just how bad the game is and how silent shrapnel and Malfador have been. Hopefully they will put out an article to let everyone know just how badly Aaron, Malfador Machinations, and Shrapnel have decided to ignore their customers and their responsibilities. Maybe when they see enough sales being lost across the board becasue they loise the trust of the community they will wake up and relize its not wise to screw over your customers.

Best of luck with your complaints. In my experience in business (more years than I care to admit to!) a company that refuses to deal with customers' complaints is a company with problems. :down:

Yeah,....I am going to try and get a refund. I know the reasoning Shrapnel is going to use to deny that,...and sadly the FTC will most likley let them get away with it,....but as I said in my post above,...it will get them to at least say something about the future of the game.

ScottWAR June 12th, 2011 04:09 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Here is another method of contact for those who would prefer it.

The FTC:Consumer Response Center- 1-877-382-4357

Just in case you would rather call than e-mail.

S.R. Krol June 12th, 2011 07:14 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Just wanted to chime in here and state that we have not heard of any concrete dates for another patch, or if another patch is even coming, so there has been nothing to really say.

ScottWAR June 13th, 2011 04:10 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Thank you for responding. I will make sure that I add in my complaint that Shrapnel responded. If the game is abandoned by Malfador in this condition I would suggest that Shrapnel decline publishing any further games from them,...since it will only hurt the reputation of Shrapnel even further.

I understand that 'low demand' means low sales, and that Malfador doesnt want to invest any more time in this game,....but since this game isnt finished by any stretch of the imagination, consider finishing it first. If you are going to be so quick to abandon a game,...at least get it somewhat finished before releasing it as a finished product.

Mike_T June 13th, 2011 04:21 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.R. Krol (Post 778752)
Just wanted to chime in here and state that we have not heard of any concrete dates for another patch, or if another patch is even coming, so there has been nothing to really say.

That is absolutely breathtaking!! :mad: You're actually saying that nothing seems to be happening and therefore there's nothing to say! The fact that nothing's happening is the root of the problem - surely you understand that - :mad:

Contrary to what you say, there is plenty that Shrapnel should be saying - why don't you (or your boss) answer the claims of those that have legitimate complaints about this half baked game? For goodness sake, do you still not understand that this is all about how Shrapnel deals with a failed game? - a game which is still being advertised for sale!

spillblood June 13th, 2011 06:26 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Thanks for posting, S.R. Man, this is getting worse and worse. Seems Shrapnel don't have real contact to Malfador. They must do something and stop advertising and selling the game, or at least reduce the price, change the sales page etc. I think they ought to take some action against Malfador. But as long as Malf don't do anything and Shrapnel still sell this game and don't have contact to Malfador, there's gonna be no progress on this game.

Tim Brooks June 13th, 2011 06:29 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Greetings:

If anyone here needs customer support please use our support center. It is the only way we can help you. We have policies in place and we do not do customer support on the forums - ever. The forums are for the gamers to talk to each other. We rarely monitor the forums so thinking you are getting our ear here is just not the case.

The Support center can be found here. And you do have to register an account, if you do not already have one.

Thanks guys.

spillblood June 13th, 2011 07:28 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Seems they don't understand! These are no requests suitable for customer support! And Customer support can't help us anyway. Man, this ****ing sucks! Would you please take the time and READ the preceding posts?

Malfador Machinations June 13th, 2011 12:45 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Hi All,

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I have received only 1 email regarding problems with the game. We addressed those issues in the 1.09 patch. I waited 2 weeks on the release of the last patch version for bug reports and got none.

If you'd like another patch, here's what you need to do. Create a list of specific references to bugs, or detailed descriptions of poor AI performance. Back these reports up with savegames. Just saying the AI is "bad" is not enough. Send these to ws@malfador.com.

We will do another patch if there is demand for it. Quietly posting in a forum is not enough. We require your participation in this process. Only you know the problems.

Aaron

ScottWAR June 13th, 2011 02:37 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malfador Machinations (Post 778804)
Hi All,

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I have received only 1 email regarding problems with the game. We addressed those issues in the 1.09 patch. I waited 2 weeks on the release of the last patch version for bug reports and got none.

If you'd like another patch, here's what you need to do. Create a list of specific references to bugs, or detailed descriptions of poor AI performance. Back these reports up with savegames. Just saying the AI is "bad" is not enough. Send these to ws@malfador.com.

We will do another patch if there is demand for it. Quietly posting in a forum is not enough. We require your participation in this process. Only you know the problems.

Aaron

Are you serious? You realize THIS is the games official forum,...where the people who play the game come to talk about it,......and shockingly,...where we have been for MONTHS,..talking about exclusively whats wrong with the game.

Youre really going to sit there with a straight face and tell us you dont read these forums? If thats true,..then maybe,....just maybe,...you should check in on your games OFFICIAL forums occasionally, instead of ignoring it and then saying I didnt realize anything was wrong and that people were upset.

The truth is WE require YOUR participation. You know like reading the forums,..listening to the problems we have,...actually FIXING the game in a patch instead of just getting started and releasing hoping thats good enough.

We are NOT going to send in bug reports......We are NOT beta testers. We bought the game and should not have to help you finish it outside of posting the problems here.


Here is an idea....PLAY YOUR OWN GAME!!!!!!! Then it will be obvious what needs fixing,...just as it obvious to everyone else that plays it. If you need beta testers,...well then you should have kept the game in beta.

Tim Brooks June 13th, 2011 04:06 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
ScottWAR:

You need to tone it down or you will be gone from these forums. Aaron Hall has told you what he needs from you. Not everyone is the same and see things the same, and you need to give input if you want the AI to improve for you. If you aren't willing to do that, then don't complain here.

And we have told you that these are not support forums more than once. They are the official forums for the gamers to talk to each other. Both Shrapnel and Malfador have told you what you need to do for support. We will not change our policies for you.

So either help us help you or stop complaining here.

ScottWAR June 13th, 2011 04:14 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Sorry,...Aaron wants us to be beta testrs and we are not. We paid for the game, we shouldnt have to do anything else......period. I should not have to send in bug reports for a supposedly finished product.

You have also been told repeatedly,..by more than me that your 'support ticket' system doesnt work.

I will be filing that report with the FTC and we will see who is responsible for fixing this game......us, the customers,..or you the publisher/developer.

ScottWAR June 13th, 2011 05:22 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Ok, my complaint has been filed, and is on record. The rep I spoke with informed me that as of now there are not enough complaints for anything to be done. (Kudos for that Shrapnel, the other two I have filed against in the past, Atari and Activision, werent so lucky, too bad it has come to this) If there are more complaints filed and a pattern is seen, an investigation will result. So send in those complants. You dont have to do it over the net,..you can just call the number
FTC: Consumer Response Center: 1-877-382-4357

Tell the truth, no exaggerating. None is needed.

ScottWAR June 13th, 2011 05:30 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks (Post 778791)

The Support center can be found here. And you do have to register an account, if you do not already have one.

Thanks guys.

Just wanted to add,....to be fair, I was incorrect,...what I read said you dont need an account to purchase a game. My mistake.

But, just so you understand Tim,.....there is nothing support can do to help us. This isnt a technical issue,..this is a developer issue. He has beeen told what is wrong,....a few times via e-mail from others, here on the forums, and throguh your support system.,..yet he still acts as if he doesnt know anything is wrong.

Thats why we are fed up. Its no secret what is wrong with this game,...but the developer is playing see no evil, hear no evil spak no eveil. For those too young to know that reference,...he is acting as if nothing is wrong, even though its obvious.

spillblood June 14th, 2011 08:16 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malfador Machinations (Post 778804)
Hi All,

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I have received only 1 email regarding problems with the game. We addressed those issues in the 1.09 patch. I waited 2 weeks on the release of the last patch version for bug reports and got none.

If you'd like another patch, here's what you need to do. Create a list of specific references to bugs, or detailed descriptions of poor AI performance. Back these reports up with savegames. Just saying the AI is "bad" is not enough. Send these to ws@malfador.com.

We will do another patch if there is demand for it. Quietly posting in a forum is not enough. We require your participation in this process. Only you know the problems.

Aaron

OK, seems Aaron doesn't read the forums. I think we need to send bug reports via E-Mail directly to Malfador.
Don't use customer support, don't use the forum bug report threads anymore.
I think this is pretty bad because Shrapnel set up these threads in order to let people post bug reports and suggestions there. But I think he's expected us to send bug reports directly to him and he obviously didn't read the forum threads.

There seems to be no other way of making sure Aaron is informed. I've gone forward, compiled all bug reports of the beta patches and 1.09 in the forum, and our suggestions, and emailed it to him as a rtf-file, if he doesn't wanna spend time reading the forums. Please mail him some more manifestos, JCrowe, if you read this. By the way, me, JCrowe and maybe one or two other guys were the only people who actually posted bug reports and suggestions during the beta patches and after V 1.09 was released, didn't read any bug reports from you, ScottWAR. Did you test the 1.09 patch?

To ScottWAR: I think you're going a bit too far, after they've finally broken the silence and suggesting us to post more bug reports. Try to be constructive and just send Aaron all your bug reports and suggestions in E-Mails, directly to ws@malfador.com.

ScottWAR June 14th, 2011 10:32 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Yes I tested the patch. Basically almost all the problems that existed before still exist as far as the AI goes. The AI still makes stupid moves. Not as many as before the patch,...but still far more than is acceptable from an AI. Why should I repost the same problems?

You bring up a good point. So far we have been told 3 different ways to get support,....of which none have worked. Posting the bugs in forum post we were asked to post in didnt get them fixed. Using the support ticket system of Shrapnels didnt work. E-mailing aaron didnt work. What else is there?

Again,...I am not a beta tester. I should not have to test this game. But I have already done that. I have already posted the problems. Those problems have already been mailed to Aaaron. But those problems still havent been fixed.

There is absolutely no way Aaron could think this game is finished. There is absolutely no way he doesnt know of the problems. So him not fixing it is his choice. He doesnt want to fix it otherwise he would without us having to beg and post about it for months on end.

I've done all I can to help get this game fixed. If you wish to sit back and wait another 6 months for nothing to be fixed,...go ahead. I'm tired of waiting on empty promises to not be kept.

JCrowe June 14th, 2011 01:06 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
The sad irony here (I think), is that the anger steaming off this forum is coming (in part) from the fact that the product could be such a great game - one this genre hasn't seen live up to full potential in a very, very long time. And here it is, yet another strategy game of global domination, riding on the edge of glory but never quite making it over to the promised land. So close, so far. Combine this frustration with what appears to be a wall of uncomprehending silence, and the fur begins to fly.

I gotta say, though, that I find the response from Aaron / Malf difficult to believe. After the last blow-up, we were instructed to post bug issues / AI problems / etc. to this thread. Copy-paste-done. To ad infinitum, no less. Since that post, there are at least a dozen following that discuss very specific failings in the AI's approach - many of which, I'll add, remained 100% unchanged since v1.01.

I'd also add that I - ALONE - have submitted a small book of specific suggestions and problem notes, direct to Aaron, before and after Blow Up #1, and only a fraction of those seem to have caught notice. And when you consider how much material others have contributed ... we're not talkin' "book", we're talking "epic novel" on the order of "War & Peace - The Extended Director's Cut".

So, where are we supposed to be now? Ditch the thread and submit direct to Malf and hope they don't switch the policy again? Wait six months and see what one or two suggestions / fixes out of 4,000 submitted "make the cut"?

Look - full admission. I don't know how to write software code. I don't have the skills to read the lines and offer suggestions for rewrites to transform this AI from a dead frog in a barrel to Erwin Rommel. Guess you could call it a personal failing of mine. I expect I'm not alone in that. So, I followed the guidance, and in concert with all the other fine, devoted folks on here, offered the best theoretical guidance and real-life examples I had for support. Theory, practice, and documented "real life" events, filed and submitted in no less than three different formats.

What else can we do?

Open question to the peeps from Shrappie - the Admins, Prelates, Overlords, etc. of this board - am I being unfair?

I know you guys are kinda stuck in the middle of this, but if you tone-out the vitriol and just stick to the bare facts, what conclusions do you draw?

I'm feeling generous, so I'll admit to something else - I won't ask for a refund. It was $30, not my life savings, and yeah, I could have played the demo and ducked the bullet on day one. So shame on me, and a plague of fleas upon my house if I'm less than overwhelmed. But in business, it's not the dollar spent yesterday that matters quite so much as the dollars yet to come - or not, as the case may be. I've bought stuff off Shrapnel before and liked what I got. (SpaceHorse - too awesome.) Keeps me coming back. It was the confidence I built up from those past buys that had me skip the demo and go direct to 'sale'.

What lesson am I to have learned?

?

Avoid Malf, and give any new offering on Shrapnel a wide berth until others have vetted it in depth with their dollars, first?

Fair? Unfair?

spillblood June 14th, 2011 02:47 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Yeah, I think we've already detailed the post patch 1.09 AI flaws in enough detail in the threads that were made for this purpose by Shrapnel. It sucks that we have to repeat all stuff several times before Malf notices it. Makes things a lot harder. I hope he reads the compilation of threads I sent him.

Skirmisher June 14th, 2011 03:34 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malfador Machinations (Post 778804)

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

Only you know the problems.

Aaron


What is your opinion of this game?

If you bothered to read what's going on here, you would see your WS fanbase isn't particularly impressed with your product.

I'm having difficulty with your distant,developer in hiding approach. But I would like to understand where you think your coming from.

spillblood June 15th, 2011 05:40 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Wanna give additional details of how this compilation of bug reports/ feature requests from the forum by E-Mail directly to Aaron turned out. I've collected all important posts that were made during the beta phase and edited them a bit to make the messages clearer. His answer was: "Please post these and all future correspondences to the forum.
Aaron"
I don't know yet what to make of this, and what he wanted to say. Does he want me to post all E-Mail correspondence in the forum, or did he mean that he doesn't need those texts and wants me to post this only here and not E-Mail it to him? I'm not sure.

Malfador Machinations June 15th, 2011 01:23 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Hi All,

Yes, I have received the manifestos, and yes I have read the forums. 75% of the manifestos are change and addition suggestions. The remaining 25% are general descriptions of why the AI is not strong enough. General descriptions are very difficult to reproduce. I need specifics.

The following information should be in bug reports:
1. Version of the Game
2. Type of game you're playing - Single Player, Multi Player, Hotseat, TCP/IP.
3. Section of the game - Movement, Combat, Install, Purchasing, AI, etc.
4. Detailed Description
5. Why you feel this is incorrect behavior.
6. Steps to reproduce
7. Savegame
8. Screenshots
9. Debug Log

Obviously, you can't provide all of the preceeding information in every case. But savegames and screenshots are very important. AI actions often develop over several turns. I need to be able to see what the player is doing, and how the AI is reacting to it. AI behavior is strongly dictated by the player's actions. A different player will get a different reaction.

Aaron

ScottWAR June 15th, 2011 02:47 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malfador Machinations (Post 778894)
Hi All,

Yes, I have received the manifestos, and yes I have read the forums. 75% of the manifestos are change and addition suggestions. The remaining 25% are general descriptions of why the AI is not strong enough. General descriptions are very difficult to reproduce. I need specifics.

The following information should be in bug reports:
1. Version of the Game
2. Type of game you're playing - Single Player, Multi Player, Hotseat, TCP/IP.
3. Section of the game - Movement, Combat, Install, Purchasing, AI, etc.
4. Detailed Description
5. Why you feel this is incorrect behavior.
6. Steps to reproduce
7. Savegame
8. Screenshots
9. Debug Log

Obviously, you can't provide all of the preceeding information in every case. But savegames and screenshots are very important. AI actions often develop over several turns. I need to be able to see what the player is doing, and how the AI is reacting to it. AI behavior is strongly dictated by the player's actions. A different player will get a different reaction.

Aaron

And exactly what salary does this position pay?

Come on man,...we already paid for the game,...now you are asking us to do detailed work if we want you to finish what we paid for?

Just fix the game.

Mike_T June 15th, 2011 04:54 PM

Re: Fed Up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malfador Machinations (Post 778894)
Hi All,

Yes, I have received the manifestos, and yes I have read the forums. 75% of the manifestos are change and addition suggestions. The remaining 25% are general descriptions of why the AI is not strong enough. General descriptions are very difficult to reproduce. I need specifics.

The following information should be in bug reports:
1. Version of the Game
2. Type of game you're playing - Single Player, Multi Player, Hotseat, TCP/IP.
3. Section of the game - Movement, Combat, Install, Purchasing, AI, etc.
4. Detailed Description
5. Why you feel this is incorrect behavior.
6. Steps to reproduce
7. Savegame
8. Screenshots
9. Debug Log

Obviously, you can't provide all of the preceeding information in every case. But savegames and screenshots are very important. AI actions often develop over several turns. I need to be able to see what the player is doing, and how the AI is reacting to it. AI behavior is strongly dictated by the player's actions. A different player will get a different reaction.

Aaron

Aaron

There seems to be a misunderstanding between you and the buyers of this game. Buyers expect a game to be a finished product that has been tested and which works properly. You seem to think that buyers should do the testing for you. I would be interested in what Shrapnel's expectations were.

Did you carry out proper testing before releasing the game to Shrapnel? Did you implement the testers' findings? Did you believe that the game as released was a properly finished product? Shouldn't you be apologising for the game's shortcomings, rather than asking buyers to suggest "improvements"?

And, Shrapnel - did you expect Aaron to deliver you a fully tested and completed game? Do you think that is what he gave you? Are you happy with the sales pitch for WS as it appears on your website?

Why is it so difficult for a supplier to accept responsibility for what they are selling? This isn't just a legal requirement - it helps to keep your customers happy - if that's important to you!

spillblood June 16th, 2011 05:40 AM

Re: Fed Up
 
Yeah, the things he wants us to do are professional betatesting, not the actions normal customers are encouraged to do. Start a new official betatesting phase and stop selling this game, I don't want to do this work, I'm a customer, not a betatester!


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