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-   -   SP and SPAA Developments (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45014)

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 18th, 2019 09:51 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
I really feel like an as now that I forgot to use DID with all it's built refs. :doh: It made me rethink my web search I believe we got somewhere to a better place with the below.Alright one at a time.


(DOD-101 ARMY Doc. OVERVIEW/NOTE: Second Para middle BRADLEY again/Read it carefully it says also they're built to keep up with the ABRAMS and BRADLEY. No SPEED given :rolleyes: it must be pretty fast. As my last post Refs. showed they had more powerful engines progressively from the A109A5/A5+. Recommend SPEED adjusted accordingly but I wouldn't say as fast as the ABRAMS OR BRADLEY but maybe faster then we think.)

Work in Progress...


(You have to be careful they tend to use initial production dates for START not FOC.)
(Expected service to at least 2030.)
(Conversion of M109A6 to M109A7 to have started in OCT 2017.)
(The ARMY Plan.)

When you look at pictures of the FAASV and M109 you can see the resemblance especially with the now I forgot which, either M109A5/A5+ or M109A6 which had the chassis extended. Sad thing is when I posted on these not quite 10yrs. ago I believe, I mentioned that about the chassis

Don hope this helped I'm sure my EDIT CLOCK is running low. Does this mean I can have my M109A5/A5+ now!?! Yup right up to the end!! :p


FASTBOAT TOUGH September 1st, 2019 08:37 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Please in advance excuse the "dumb" question. I found a good article on the ABBOT (Posted below with pictures of it doing something.) so I decided to check it out in the Great Britain OOB, where I came across ABBOT TROOP UNIT 198. I see it's labeled as an O/M unit, which is fine, but I always thought in the game like "RL" if it was an SPA unit, it benefited from any armor value it had to protect in counter battery attacks much as it's on map counter part would, in this case UNIT 401.

Am I off base in my thinking here?

Something to get my mind off DORIAN for the time being, before she shows up uninvited somewhere around late Monday early Tuesday morning.

I know some of you out here are in the same potential boat as us, prepare , pay attention and most importantly stay safe!!

DORAIN isn't content to be a second place finisher thus far in the "wind speed" category, she's just off the pace by less than 3-5mph.

Some of us might be off line for awhile, so to everyone else, have a great week!! :D


Mobhack September 2nd, 2019 03:51 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Abbots were available ~10 years before the 105 light gun - otherwise you would be stuck with the 105 pack howitzer 65-75. The pack has less range, so would be counter-batteried easily and unable to reach most opponents if firing C/B itself.

Why the light gun took so long when it was already available on the Abbot - probably finances?. Also - the Italian OTO 105 pack howitzer was a NATO standardisation, lots of folk bought them because of that agreement - and then spent their time modifying them to suit, welding them up (and so losing the pack ability) since they fell apart if towed too much behind vehicles or too fast, adding muzzle brakes since they were fired on max charge more than designed (so as to achieve any useful range) before binning them and replacing with proper artillery pieces.

DRG September 2nd, 2019 09:22 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
There are a number of SPA used as Off Map arty in the various OOB's......sometimes it's all you have....sometimes it's the best unit to use. Just because it is armoured doesn't mean you cannot use it as an off-map asset

Suhiir September 2nd, 2019 08:28 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
The US 175mm while not armored is self-propelled, and it's intended primarily for counter-battery.

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 2nd, 2019 09:29 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
While I REALLY appreciate the feedback, what I was trying to figure out is the following...

Does an armored off map SPA unit benefit from being armored when it is being "counter battered" by the AI or Player?

Does the "code" allow for this?

I know if the "same" unit, ABBOT for instance to stay on point, is on the map, it's armor protection is taken into account as assigned to that unit when being attacked.

Survivability is the bottom line I guess w/o "mucking up" my question any further.

Just trying to figure out how some of this works is all within the programing.

Outside of this main topic noted above,
I do understand the point with regular "field artillery" though many modern large caliber light weight artillery (M177 is a great example of this capability.) can be fired and moved before with minimal or no loss a majority of the time. Even in the game, not all those units are necessarily destroyed fully in the first counter battery salvo or second one.



Mobhack September 3rd, 2019 12:12 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
There are only off-map batteries, no "SP" or "Armoured" or any other differentiation other than maybe a pretty picture.

UK used the 105 light gun in SPA arty, while concurrently being lumbered with the underwhelming OTO-Melera pack thing in towed batteries, before introducing the light gun as a towed unit to replace them (M119 in its USA version IIRC).

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 3rd, 2019 01:59 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Andy thank you very much! I'm one for knowing "how things work" and your answer clarifies one of those "mysteries" of the programing side that's not one of my strengths when it comes to computers. As I've said before, I'm more about the security side of things.

What I liked about the ABBOT was that it was fully amphibious using the attached fitted skirts (Similar that was to what they used on SHERMAN tank in D-Day) and it had as standard equipment for many years and "A maximum of 42 rounds were carried aboard the ‘Abbot’ (36 HE and 6 HESH). In normal operations, however, only 40 rounds were usually carried (32 HE and 6 HESH). The rounds were stored around the inside of the turret and the hull." from the ref., with the HESH rounds being fairly effective against some of the armor of the time.

SPA that can somewhat defend itself, what a concept!?! And fun to use in the game, when given no choice in the matter. ;)

Thank you again Andy!


MarkSheppard December 16th, 2019 06:52 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
1 Attachment(s)
New US Army SPH M1299 based on the M109 series. 155mm 58 caliber barrel. The XM1299 is part of the Army's Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) program.


I wouldn't be adding it to the game just yet. The US has a long history of cancelled projects. :rolleyes:

During a firing test Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona in March 2019, the M1299 gun nailed targets with pinpoint accuracy at a range of 62 kilometers, offering a greater range compared to the M109A7 Paladin which has maximum firing range of 30 km and for 40 km with the M982 Excalibur guided artillery shell for the M777 light towed howitzers.


The M1299 tracked self-propelled howitzer has a fully-automatic ammunition loading system. It loads both projectiles and charges. This automatic loading system increased the rate of fire from 3 Rounds Per Minute (RPM) on the M109A7 to 10 rpm.

The M1299 continues the use of 155 mm caliber of ammunition but it will use new XM1113 rocket-assisted artillery projectiles. In June 2019, General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems (GD-OTS) awarded a contract for Prototype and Process Development for the 155mm XM1113 Rocket-Assisted Projectile (RAP) round.


The XM1113 RAP uses rocket technology to deliver greater thrust to the round when compared to its predecessor, the legacy M549A1.

This will enable current U.S. Field Artillery 155mm Systems to fire the XM1113 RAP to a range of 40 kilometers, a 30% increase from the M549A1.

When fired from the planned future Extended Range Artillery Cannon (ERCA) [aka XM1299], the XM1113 will achieve ranges out to 70 kilometers.

FASTBOAT TOUGH December 16th, 2019 11:52 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
That's all well and good, however, I've "gone down this road" many, many times through the years and the fact is precision type munitions and extended ranges don't matter within the games parameters. The player has control of artillery accuracy when setting up the game/campaign (I set mine at 90%.) and I know Don determines the ranges based on the info presented within the "context" of the games parameter's.

The Rheinmetall/Denel Land Systems also at the end of November just set three distance world records on two different 155mm/52 SPA platforms (The SADF G6 took top honors at 76km.) and on a FH 155mm/39. This is an important distinction to the above post, ALL three records were set using conventional munitions.

I've also said for years and years South Africa produces some of the very best artillery systems in the world. I'd take a G-series SPA against anyone's in the Cold War/Current Era.

But again it doesn't really matter in the long run for us overall.


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