Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

Pat......... that is more or less exactly what is in the OOB's now.....missile count AND range except we call the latest version the TOS-1M but I need to sort out why we have 4 versions when it looks like 2 would do.

This shows them in a demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IiPuzj1OXA

and claims they will be sold to Syria

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

and it appears they are showing up in Iraq as well

http://www.janes.com/article/41343/i...ssian-weaponry

If I were the Jordanians, I'd want a few of these as well....payback can be a real b*itch


Iraqi soldiers learning how to re-load a TOS

http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2...6/422119.shtml

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1423176134

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

Don,
Read the bottom para first before you start on this-please!
TY-Pat

Don,
I agree I know of only those two versions as well, which is good for the Russian slot situation, hey two is a victory in that area. I like my boys from the Ukraine (1st Ref.) but the French (2nd ref.) are really good. The issue here is that the Ukrainians are saying the TOS-1 was not accepted into the Russian Army whereas the French said it was which was always my understanding. I recommend delete whatever those other units are and keep the below in until we have time to sort out TOS-1 as option 1. However there is an option 2 to consider based on the below video ref. and write up, which is to lock out the TOS-1.
As to Iraq and Syria (Though it is conjecture as to whether Syria has TOS-1 (I am not ready myself to give it to them.)) these were on my work list the deals also included the PANSYTR System as well for both. I'll give you what I have below.

TOS-1 Data comparison...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/tos1.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...ications_.html

TOS-1A Data comparison...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/tos_1a.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...ications_.html

As we have been down this road before the following will show a short video of a Russian exercise involving the TOS-1. Reminiscent of the North Korean tank situation from the MBT Thread, you might remember some of that was addressed when I counted the "road wheels" of the tanks. Now watch the below video pause it at the launcher, count the tubes,unless I'm really tired I got 24 tubes. Everyone is agreeing that the TOS-1 has 30 tubes, so the video labeled TOS-1 is really showing the TOS-1A with 24 tubes. Also your Iraqi picture shows you got it...24 tubes.
You gotta love life!
http://www.military.com/video/ammuni...1277144437001/

Iraq and Syria ...
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...s-again-07571/
(As this article shows I have work in this area under the Contract section look to 10/14.)
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...billion-03391/


Other issues on my list for Iraq and Syria
http://www.janes.com/article/47826/d...aq-as-positive
http://www.janes.com/article/47872/i...rian-d-20-guns

I need too hit the rack, for Russia Option 1 would be the easiest to deal with not knowing how much you're putting on yourself and what your timeline is. Besides I'm going to throw you two "softballs" over the next two days.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

There may be earlier links but this one is dated June 2013 and contains false information like the range of the TOS is 60km ( that added zero makes a big difference but that's corrected later in the article ) but what's "interesting" is this goes back to "pre ISIS" days when Assad was the worlds boogyman and Russia was supporting him when most everyone else wanted him gone.( then the middle east would be in peace and harmony:doh:)...... now the weapons are starting to show up and ISIS has shown itself to be unsupportable ( and nobody says anything about Assad anymore ) and suddenly this all seems like a pretty good idea

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

........and "just for fun" lets try to nail the dates down for this thing. We have it starting 1981..... I have NO idea where that date came from but it's never been questioned.....until I started digging today

THIS LINK ( Army guide from France ) claims

Until I find better info "early 1990s" is going to be 1993. What I don't know is when that article was written. It also suggests there is a prototype of a 122 mm version of TOS with 70 tubes but I'm going to leave that one alone for now

but THIS claims ( first appeared in August 2000 issue of Marine Corps Gazette )

That was written August 2000

so it could have been tested in the early 80's..... or the early 90's but for certain it could not have been "combat-tested in Afghanistan's Panjshir valley " in the "early 90's. If ANYONE has better info on this please let us know and if anyone sees any recent photos of the original 30 rocket version let me know. I suspect that is no longer in service but it's uncertain ATM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

The very first ref. Military-Today does support the USMC Gazette claim that the TOS-1 did see combat in Afghanistan as well. The year I've seen most consistently for developmental start was 1981. As Russia is not India (Again 30+ years to get to the ARJUN MBT.) they could get a system like this tested and in the field within 5 yrs. because they already had identified and did not have to develop a launch platform by using the T-72. If you go with the Afghanistan situation I would recommend a date of 6/86 this would allow 5-5.5yrs. to develop the launcher, rocket and modify the readily available T-72 hulls for turret removal, modification of the FCS and reconfiguration of the turret opening to mount the launcher. Very doable for only 24-30 platforms. Or as your planning leave it alone as CHECHNYA is the common thread for all the refs we have concerning it's combat background. I had to give you the first option as you would understand for AFGHANISTAN since they didn't leave there until around May 1989(?) I believe.

I need to grab something to eat and get ready for work.

Regards,
Pat

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

Don,
I did as deep a search as possible and this ties into the immediate last post.
TOS-1: I gave the option of 6/86 I have found ONLY one ref that offers any specific date and that only a year from the first ref below "IOC 1985" a couple of these are Russian and support the Afghanistan combat role one says this was in 1989 (Second ref. note: it shows a TOS-1A video BUT the write is for the TOS-1.) and that's it, I didn't read the USMC Gazette to see if they even gave that much.
http://www.deagel.com/Multiple-Launc...002564001.aspx
https://russianmilitaryphotos.wordpr...sting-grounds/
http://tanknutdave.com/the-russian-tos-1-mlrs/

TOS-1A: Here 2001 is the consensus year. However the ref gives a specific date of 04 April 2001 as an in service date.
http://tonnel-ufo.ru/eanglish/weapon...tem-tos-1a.php

I REALLY GOTTA FLY NOW!!

Regards,
Pat

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

SOFTBALL #1...
In my last post I came across a ref concerning the TOS-1A having been delivered to Iraq in July. I thought I bookmarked it however, I did not so, to close the loop here, I give you the following...
I recommend that Oct. 2014 be the field date for the TOS-1A based on the late July 2014 delivery date and to allow for training. I believe the pictures you posted came from the first ref. the training time is reasonable considering the Iraqi Army is very familiar with the T-72 tank. The FCS is more of a direct fire system aided by a day/night (TI) optical sight with LRF again not a technical hurdle for them to overcome. The only time consuming issue I really is in learning to reload and use the launcher (As they already use similar systems.) specific to the TOS-1A.
http://www.janes.com/article/41343/i...ssian-weaponry

Please note dated posted on the following (This is a legitimate site designed to serve current active, reserve, veteran and retired military in the U.S.)
http://www.military.com/video/rocket...3846081544001/

And if your feeling really frogging...
JANE'S was right on top of this concerning the Iraqis having been equipped with the Iranian HM-20 MRL as pictured. I have not verified that this is even in the Iranian OOB. I have a handful of equipment issues to deal with concerning Iran, they've been busy this past year. If not, as you can see it's on my list to do already.
http://www.janes.com/article/47826/d...aq-as-positive

Since in these refs there has been discussion of the Su-25, Iraq does have and is getting more of them however, there is no info to support that they are being used at this time. This is a new aircraft for them thus the Russians (Yes they're there and yes we paid for some of this equipment as well.) are training them to fly and maintain them.

Regards,
Pat

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 

Oct 2014 works for me