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MarkSheppard September 27th, 2018 08:42 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
1 Attachment(s)
Japan is showing off a wheeled SP Howitzer that could replace towed guns in JGSDF service



According to the MoD’s statement, the Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Agency (ATLA) is developing new wheeled self-propelled howitzers for replacing FH-70 towed howitzers for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force (JGSDF).

Details of the first prototype of 155 mm self-propelled artillery system, based on 8×8 chassis were released at the official website of the Japan Ministry of Defense.

The new artillery system is a hybrid of the wheeled truck chassis, with a 155mm 52-calibre long-range gun that is equipped with the on-board computation, inertial navigation and aiming systems.

The vehicle has a maximum length of 11.4m, a height of 3.4m and width of 2.5m. A typical operating crew is five personnel though three can manage the gun and vehicle functions in an emergency.

Tags: Japan
Meanwhile in CHINA; there may be a new wheeled SP howitzer platform, limited details are available on it; a few dozen of it have been seen on a train.

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 18th, 2019 03:56 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Before I start, I must say we're missing in the USA OOB the following M109A1, M109A3, M109A4, M109A5, M109A5+ and M109A7 PIM/A7 units. The compromise UNIT appears to be the M109A6 PALADIN that covers the period of JAN 1985 to DEC 2025. So who cares and why is this an issue? I have three issues that come to mind in just a few minutes of looking at the issue. OK now five after 5 minutes.

1. It's bigger and size matters. Versions up the M109A5+ used the chassis of the M113 APC. Both the M109A6 (I think.) and M109A7 (For sure.) use the BRADLEY chassis.See 2., 3. & 4. below.

2. Ammo load is different the M109A6 carries 38 rounds. The previous versions carry 36 or 28 rounds.

3. It is better protected with heavier armor and spall liners installed in the interior.

4. The guns are different the M109A6 has the 155mm/L39 (PIM/A7 might be bigger, if I remember correctly, I posted quite a bit about these current last 2 units.) the previous versions I believe ALL used the 155mm/L23 gun.

5. Also some M109A6 (And I suspect PIM/A7.) carry a 40 mm automatic grenade launcher vice 12.7mm MG.

6. ROF for M109A6 PALADIN & I believe M109A7 (PIM was dropped.) is 4 RPM for both MAX. AND SUSTAINED fire, while the previous versions ROF is 4 RPM MAX./2 RPM Sustained.

With the ABRAMS issues being in a better place with at least two slots being available, in an otherwise tight OOB, I'm requesting that an intermediate 1 or 2 units be chosen from Ref. 3 below (For the USA.) as submitted for Brazil. This will allow me to fix the M109A6 PALIDAN and we can figure out what to do about the PIM later. My brain is already crunching numbers for the A6. Currently ALL USA M109A6 units are being converted over to the M109A7.

I'm not doing anything with it until I get the "Green Light" to do so.

I'm forced to use the M109A6 based on the units BRAZIL has gotten and will be getting per Ref. 1.

USA/CHANGE/M109A2/UNIT 041/AMMO ROUNDS 36 vice 28//This was the first version to have the increased ammo allowance.//

This unit was the first modified to carry the larger MG.

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5+/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START JAN 2020/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//Improved FCS.

BRAZIL/ADD/M992 FAASV/COPY/USA UNIT 343/START APR 2019//Has the ammo capacity to reload M109 Series with 93 rounds.
(See for variants.)

CHINA/ADD/SH-15/ALSO KNOWN AS SH-1A/START JAN 2019/CREW 4 to 5/MG AH-2 155mm/L52/ROF MAX. 6 RPM/SUSTAINED 4 RPM/ROUNDS ?/COMPATIBLE TO NATO and CHINESE ROUNDS/SECONDARY OPTIONAL 12.7mm MG ROUNDS ?/PROTECTION 0/IS HOWEVER AIR PORTABLE C-130 or CHINESE Y-9 TYPE AIR TRANSPORT//There just isn't much more available on this piece of equipment I can find. It is very similar AND closer to the French CEASAR then the SH-1 below.

CHINA/ADD/SH-1/START JAN 2019/CREW 5/MG AH-2 155mm/L52/ROF MAX. 6 RPM/SUSTAINED 4 RPM/ROUNDS 25/COMPATIBLE TO NATO and CHINESE ROUNDS/SECONDARY 12.7mm MG ROUNDS ?/PROTECTION ARMORED CAB/IS AIR PORTABLE C-130 or CHINESE Y-9 TYPE AIR TRANSPORT//A complete SH-1 regiment includes 24 truck-mounted howitzers, 4 battery command post vehicles, one battalion command post vehicle, one meteorological radar, 4 wheeled reconnaissance vehicles with 6x6 configuration and one artillery locating radar.
(See variant section. Also has picture options.)

Last two as time allows just wish I had more data.

It's 3am I'm done. Good well everything!?!


DRG February 18th, 2019 07:49 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Pat.......we are NOT "missing" the 109A1...you are though

808 - M109A1 - Available 01/073 to 12/078

......and there is little point to

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5+/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START JAN 2020/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//Improved FCS.

as FCS for arty is NOT modelled by the game. The only difference between that unit and the M109A5 is the "+"

.....and the 155 Chinese guns are already in the game as SP-1

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 18th, 2019 08:34 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
To my last and thanks to my sinuses acting up, I've had time to think about the USA artillery issue as discussed in my last post.

We currently have in the game the M109 UNIT 040, M109A2 UNIT 041 and M109A6 PALADIN UNIT 042. The missing variants I've identified in my last post.

I think we need to add the following based on...

1. You have to have a beginning and we do in the M109 UNIT 040 so logically you need to have an end which would mean we need to ADD the M109A7 (Formally PIM.) with any modifications it brings to the series to the game.

2. We to have the milestone units where significant design changes have occurred. We do in M109A2 UNIT 041 which increased the ammo supply from 28 to 36 rounds due having the new M178 gun mount.

Also the M109A6 PALADIN UNIT 042 (Which again are ALL being converted to the M109A7 likely before games end.) represented the first major design change in Armor, Comms, Range and again increased the ammo supply from 36 to 39 rounds which are game related. There to be sure were significant changes its Electronics, FCS, Platform weight and possible performance which in game terms might lead to a SPEED change as well as yet to be investigated.

3. We have a very HUGE gap in time and are also missing a milestone unit that I feel can be fixed with a ADD of the "hybrid" M109A5/A5+ (As was done with the RUSSIAN T-72B3M/B4 UNIT 697.). The M109A5/A5+ successfully address..

3.A. The "bridge" we need to address the time gap.

3.B. The fact it's a milestone unit which marked the change with a M284 155mm/L39 vice 155mm/L23 gun, increased Range, ability to fire rocket assisted ammo, Optional 40mm Grenade Launcher, and FCS.

To summarize I think we need to ADD two units the M109A5/A5+ and the M109A7.

Also the M109A6 PALADIN will again, need to be changed by Dates, Ammo and SPEED. And again...

Those are my thoughts as I start thinking about maybe getting some more sleep.


Just saw your reply already understood about the FCS in arty which is why I didn't add it to the highlighted "descriptor/submission". I hope with the above, to consolidate those units and fix the USA OOB time gap.

DRG February 18th, 2019 09:27 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Pat..... there is NO " time gap" in the M109 series

040 - M109 - Available 01/064 to 12/073

808 - M109A1 - Available 01/073 to 12/078

041 - M109A2 - Available 01/079 to 12/099

042 - M109A6 Paladin - Available 01/085 to 12/125

678 - M109A6 PIM - Available 01/114 to 12/125

there is continuous coverage from 1964 to 2025

and why would we need to add an A7 when you say the A6 PIM is the A7 ?

DRG February 18th, 2019 10:25 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Trying to get hard info on in-service dates can be a PITA but it appears ( given some of these units were added to the game nearly 2 decades ago ) that the A5 and A6 were amalgamated into one unit since .....according to one source that actually gave some dates...... the A6 was not introduced until 1992 so the 1985 date is ( I suppose given I didn't add it originally ) to cover both the A5 and A6 with the new larger turret.

The A6 and A7 now have Bradly armour values and the A7 now has a 40mm ( subject to testing how that works in the game given this is artillery )

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 18th, 2019 01:25 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the "time gap" so "up front" as I did, but thank you.

I still would like to take one last shot at entering in the M109A5/A5+ (Again we did this with the T-72B3M/B4) hybrid unit. This was a major departure from the previous versions.

If you put it in (M109A5/A5+) it would cover 1985-1995/97(?) overlapping when the M109A6 PALIDIN that was supposed to have entered into service in 1991/92.

Again if you agree to enter this unit, we can use it for Brazil as submitted and any other country that buys either of the two versions. We will likely see more foreign sales of the type before games end.

I will present it in a more focused manner...
The M109A5/A5+ is a milestone unit which changed the main gun to the M284 155mm/L39 vice 155mm/L23 gun of the previous versions, Increased Range, First to be able to fire rocket assisted ammo. From the Ref. already posted...

"M109A5: model with M284 155mm/L39 howitzer, which has a maximum range of 22 km with a standard HE-FRAG projectile and 30 km with rocket-assisted projectile. Ammunition capacity stays the same, however. (That at 36 Rounds.)
M109A5+: upgraded version with improved fire control systems." (FCS not game issue and not why I posted it.

Again remember why we entered the T-72B3M/B4 to consolidate it because the differences were minimal at best and to avoid confusion and having to ADD extra unit added.)
https://www.janes.com/article/86155/...itzer-delivery (This will confirm my start date for M109A5+ as it stands.)

I've shot my "wad" on the M109A5/A5+ and with it I close the 2018/2019 Patch Submission Campaign.

I leave on the table for next year the following, T-84 OPLOT-120 (YAGAGAN)(Yes I've been tracking this and there's movement concerning it.) and BRADLEY fix (Thanks to the ABRAMS issues I found.) as my first priority.
(It's been updated since this posting. Think very close to the OPLOT-M with a very good SB 120mm w/ ATGM.)

Don as always I thank you for your support and patience, was good "to get back in the saddle again" though unfortunately I have to watch where my horse trends as those "Rabbit Holes" are still around.

Andy and Don are in it to the "hilt" at this time and I just look forward to April/May to see how it all works out.


DRG February 18th, 2019 01:29 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
I put the A5 in 2 hours ago and all it really offers is a tweak toward "historical accuracy" game wise..not much........and any on map unit that fires >200 does nothing different than a unit that fires 200 because it is ON MAP and the only advantage of >200 range weapons is in counter battery and on map arty does not CB.

RA ammo is already in the USA OOB with the off map m777's

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 18th, 2019 02:17 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
Thank You! I haven't played the USA/USMC OOB in a very long time (Europe focused.) and thought we had a couple of OFF MAP M109 units which was why I pointed out the rocket assist ammo concerning the M109A5/A5+.

Now I can focus on "BREXIT" and how it'll affect my retirement funds. It could initially in the short/medium term get VERY UGLY!?! :cold:

As they say over there "CHEERS"!!

Love it when their Submariners visit to teach our "Boys" how to properly or not handle their drinking! ;)


DRG February 18th, 2019 06:00 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
What I NEED to know for certain and any source I find is being coy about it is which model changed to the Bradley hull ---Not the A5 that seems clear what isn't is if it was the A6 or not until the A7

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