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FASTBOAT TOUGH February 26th, 2010 01:35 PM

SP and SPAA Developments
 
2 Attachment(s)
My purpose here is the same as with the the MRAP and APC threads to inform and track new developments. But also to offer systems that came into being since about 2000 as many of these are the foundation of newer systems. So Germany is first up and will demostrate my last comment.
Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Greece/PzH 2000/C5/155mm L52 How and 7.62mm MG.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pzh2000/ and http://www.military-today.com/artillery/pzh_2000.htm
Army-Tech quick look:
Key Data:
Crew 5 (commander, driver, gunner, 2 x ammunition loaders)
Dimensions:Hull Length 7.9m Overall Length 11.7m Barrel
Overhang 3.3m Width 3.6m Height 3.1m Combat Weight 55t Performance: Highway Speed Over 60km/h Typical Tank Cross-Country Speed Over 45km/h Radius of Action 420km Transportability STANAG 2832B Forward Slope50% Trench Crossing3m Guns:Calibre 52 Range With NATO Ammunition 30km Range With Base Bleed Ammunition 36.5km Range With Assisted Projectiles 40km Demonstrated Performance Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact capacity (MRSI) and firing on moving targets Resupply 60 rounds and 288 charges by 2 crew members in less than 10 minutes 50 seconds More than 26,300km of road and cross country driving Endurance Execution of 9 x 24-hour days, with 9 x 300 rounds from 37 different firing positions and
9 x 125km moves Firing Rate Demonstrated Using 24V Technology Automatic Loader 3 rounds in 9.2 seconds 8 rounds in
42.9 seconds 10 rounds in 59.6 seconds Sustained Firing Rate
20 rounds in 2 minutes 10 seconds Firing Rate Demonstrated Using 48V Technology Automatic Loader 3 rounds in 8.4 seconds
12 rounds in 59.74 seconds Sustained Firing Rate 20 rounds in
1 minute 47 seconds Power:Powerpack MTU type 881 Power-to-Weight Ratio 13.4kW/t Rating 736kW Transmission Renk HSWL 284C

Military-Today quick look:
Entered service 1998
Crew 5 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 55 t
Length (gun forward) 11.67 m
Hull length 7.87 m
Width 3.48 m
Height 3.4 m
Armament
Main gun 155-mm
Barrel length 52 calibers
Machine guns 1 x 7.62-mm
Projectile weight 43.5 kg
Maximum firing range 30 - 40 km
Maximum rate of fire 9 rpm
Elevation range - 2.5 to + 65 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun 60 rounds
Machine guns 1 500 - 2 000 rounds
Mobility
Engine MTU MT881 Ka-500 diesel
Engine power 1 000 hp
Maximum road speed 60 km/h
Range 420 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 60%
Side slope ?
Vertical step 1.1 m
Trench 3 m
Fording 1.5 m
And the good stuff:
Attachment 9579 Attachment 9580
Have run out of time have to get ready for work. Next will be the tie in unit. Would in the meantime appreciate any thoughts on the "quick looks" too much? too long? etc. thanks and have a great day!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 27th, 2010 03:12 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
3 Attachment(s)
As promised PzH 2000 projected replacement.
Germany and United States/2014P/Donar/C2/155mm L52 How/
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/donar.htm and http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4206.html
Mil-Today Quick Look:
Entered service -
Crew 2 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 31.5 t
Combat weight 35 t
Length (gun forward) 10.3 m
Hull length ?
Width 2.8 m
Height 3 m
Armament
Main gun 155-mm
Barrel length 52 calibers
Machine guns -
Maximum firing range 40 km
Maximum rate of fire 6 rpm
Elevation range 0 to + 70 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun 30 rounds
Machine guns -
Mobility
Engine MTU diesel
Engine power 720 hp
Maximum road speed 60 km/h
Range 500 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 60%
Side slope 30%
Vertical step ~ 0.9 m
Trench 2 m
Fording ~ 1.2 m

Pics:
Attachment 9585 Attachment 9586 Better PzH 2000 Attachment 9587
Good Night!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 28th, 2010 03:15 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
3 Attachment(s)
And now for something different SPAA, new and "tracking".
Switzerland/?/Skyranger/C2/DP 35mm/
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/skyranger.htm and
http://defense-update.com/products/a/aheadsparc.htm.

No quick look here except it's been designed to support duel purpose in a fire suppression role out to 5000m. Short articles.
Pics:
Attachment 9592 Attachment 9593 Attachment 9594
Watching end of 50km cross and getting ready for USA vs Canada hockey, so I hope you will enjoy the rest of your day!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 27th, 2010 01:25 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
3 Attachment(s)
Staying with Air Defence and as a reminder dates are as "fielded":
RUSSIA/PANTSYR-S1/2010/C3/Quad 30mm and 12 57E6 AA Missiles.
Article: http://www.military-today.com/missiles/pantsyr.htm

Nato designation SA-22 GREYHOUND. Has been ordered by the following: ALGERIA, SYRIA and the UAE.
Pics:

Attachment 9729 Attachment 9728 Attachment 9730

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 28th, 2010 12:29 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
3 Attachment(s)
Let me introduce the ARCHER this could be the first SPA unit to get in the game not to incur a "movement penalty" if the code allows it.
SWEDEN & NORWAY/ARCHER/2011/C4 (Min. 2)/155mm & LEMUR Remote 12.7mm.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/archer.htm Note:
30s Stop to Fire and 30s Out of Action this could be a potential counter battery nightmare.
And it seems BAE has gotten the final production contract approved. For those of us following the BMOD FRES program take note of the last para from the following as well, the French as I reported earlier are to get the CTWS 40mm to be mounted on a new platform.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1639.html
Pics:
Attachment 9740 Attachment 9741 Attachment 9742

Well I have to ready my Japanese forces for an assault against the Russians, so I hope you all have a great weekend!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 2nd, 2010 12:19 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
ARCHER update SWEDEN contracts for 48 units.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/contracts.php
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 11th, 2010 12:49 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
4 Attachment(s)
With a long and rich history in the field of artillery, how can I leave the French out of this? Your right I can't.
France, Saudi Arabia and Thailand/CAESAR/2007/C6/
155mm (18Rs) and OpRM 12.7mm/

Replaced Frances TRF1 towed 155mm, has armored cab for full crew protection from SAF and ASSplinters, <1m out of action time and "shoot and scoot" capibilities AND when firing a salvo of six OGRE cargo rounds (HE or AT bomblets) the coverage area is 3 Hectares= 30,000Sq. Meters= 7.41 Acres at saturation per this first source. I believe my maths right!?! If so that's a whole lot of "I wanna be somewhere else!". If correct this goes a long way to support some points made in IMPs CM Modeling thread from 7 FEB. 2010.
Anyway for your reading pleasure:
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/caesar.htm and
http://defense-update.com/products/c/caesar.htm (Shows number ordered by Saudi and Thai forces.)
Pics:
Attachment 9859 Attachment 9860 Attachment 9861 Attachment 9862
As mine is just starting, I hope the rest of you enjoy the rest of your weekend!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 21st, 2010 02:26 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Come one, come all!! See the PANTSYR-S1 and S-300 in action!! PANTSYR-S1 is just reaching the field now (See post #4), while the S-300's "Offspring" the TRUMPF 400 has just deployed the first two launchers at the beginning of this year for the defence of Moscow after years of delays. See thread in this forum.
http://www.defense-update.com/newsca...snews.html#sam
Enjoy the video! Good Night!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 21st, 2010 12:18 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
2 Attachment(s)
Something a little different that depending on exports might show up in a WinSPMBT country. Developed by Soltam of Israel.
Kazakhstan/SEMSER/2008/C5~6/122mm L38, MG UKN, Rs UKN/
Info:
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/semser.htm
Pics:
Attachment 10123 Attachment 10122
Have a GREAT Weekend!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 27th, 2010 01:01 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
1 Attachment(s)
Next the KRAB built in cooperation with BAE. Note the similarity to the British AS90 BRAVEHEART. Designed for both Polish Army and potential export market.
Poland/KRAB/2008/C5/155mm L52 60Rds and 12.7mm Rds UKN/
Refs:
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/krab.htm
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product860.html and
http://www.hsw.pl/eng/s_krab_p.php Note: From the Polish manufacturer, the site also provides the full make up of a Polish
Artillery Battalion.
Pic:
Attachment 10144
WinSPMBT Status: Poland
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 20th, 2010 02:57 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
5 Attachment(s)
In response to another thread, time for some U.S. arty.
PALIDAN M109A6/1991/US, Israel and Taiwan/C5/155mm L39 w/39Rs and 12.7mm w/500Rs.
A very reliable and battle proven system. I understand all U.S. units either are or almost (End of this year.) completely updated to the M109A6 PIM standard that was first fielded
in 2007.
http://www.military-today.com/artill...a6_paladin.htm and
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/paladin/

Pics:
Attachment 10225 Attachment 10226

Next the CRUSADER highly advanced artillery system that died politically, by cost overruns and not meeting expectations. Technical advancements lead to the M109A6 PIM and the
XM1203 NLOS-C which should be fielded between 2012 and 2014.
CRUSADER/US/PFD 2008/C3/155mm w/49Rs.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/crusader.htm and
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/crusader/

Pic:
Attachment 10227

And finally the XM1203 NLOS-C the next generation of U.S. artillery I'll let the source and R. Lee Ermey of History Channels Lock N Load do the talking here.
XM1203 NLOS-C/2012-2014/US/C3/155mm L38 w/24Rs.
Will have dedicated ammo unit M992 as the ARCHER system has as fielded (See earlier post on ARCHER.).
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/nlos_c.htm
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXAhZHyd2XA

(Also does an overview of the PALADIN as a lead into the
XM1203 NLOS-C.)
Pics:
Attachment 10228 Attachment 10229

Hope all you Dads have a Happy Father's Day!! Enjoy the rest of your weekends!! Back to the World Cup!!
Regards,
Pat

thatguy96 June 21st, 2010 12:08 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
The US Army issued a stop work order for the NLOS-C on 24 July 2009 as part of the partial termination of the manned components of the FCS program and the realignment of the program under the Early BCT (E-BCT) upgrade program. I'm not sure if they've restarted work on it.

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 21st, 2010 01:12 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Well since I like to make things "official" if possible, here's the best sources I can find to support the previous post
(And thanks again!).
http://www.defense.gov/releases/rele...eleaseid=12831 and from earlier this month, note para. 4.
http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/06/02...ge-of-command/
Well M109A6 PIM anyone? Though the Army is already considering replacement number three it looks like the PALADIN will be around until 2050! A hundred years (Though updated many times.) on one platform amazing!
Gotta get that bike ride in!!
Regards,
Pat

Marcello June 23rd, 2010 03:43 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 749673)
Well M109A6 PIM anyone? Though the Army is already considering replacement number three it looks like the PALADIN will be around until 2050! A hundred years (Though updated many times.) on one platform amazing!

Last I heard about it, B-52s were supposed to serve until 2040, at which point they would be 80 years old (the last left the assembly line in the early 60's). Probably the Abrams will last until that timeframe too.
Several tens of billions were wasted chasing the FCS pipe dream. That kind of money to throw around won't be available for a long time given the economic outlook.
Given how insanely expensive procuring new hardware has become it is likely that the current AFVs will soldier on for a very long time indeed.

EJ June 23rd, 2010 05:22 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
NOT surprising to read. Yours and my tax dollars "pee'd" down the drain. What the hell are OUR leaders thinking?:doh:

FASTBOAT TOUGH August 22nd, 2010 02:09 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
1 Attachment(s)
Been awhile it's been one of those summers as of today we tied the all time heat record for the Jacksonville FL. area, gotta love it!! Anyway here's the M777 PORTEE.
PORTEE/UK/C6/155mm L39 w/70 Rds./
PORTEE was developed by BAE to compete against the Giat CAESAR under the British MOD LIMAWS (G) Program. The British cancelled the program in 2007 which forced the life cycle extension (w/ upgrades.) of the AS90 until 2023.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m777_portee.htm AND http://defense-update.com/products/p/portee.htm.

Pic:
Attachment 10359

Also:
1) USA to get Honeywell aTALIN for all its M119 155mm ARTY accuracy equivalent of one round on a truck at 5 miles.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17484/

2)Sweden and Norway to use common ODIN system for ARCHER.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17501/

Regards,
Pat

Marcello August 22nd, 2010 03:59 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
I got the feeling that in a high intensity war fought with modern counterbattery techniques unless you are really good at jamming/neutralizing enemy Firefinder type radars towed guns will be able to spend only very limited amount of time firing. Such truck mounted guns, by cutting the amount of time needed for attaching them to the prime mover can mitigate the problem without being as expensive as a standard SPA. In lower intensity situations they are still cheaper to run than a tracked SPA.

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 6th, 2010 11:22 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Canada continuing it's modernization and systems updating program, this time to upgrade it's LAV II to mount the
NEMO 120mm turreted mortar system.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18013/
Happy Labor Day!!

Regards,
Pat

DRG September 7th, 2010 07:27 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
That would be Labour day...... :)

DRG September 7th, 2010 07:35 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Also, although the headline says "Patria’s Nemo Mortar System Selected for Canadian LAV II Vehicles "

what the article says is...

Quote:

Patria Nemo 120 mm mortar system has been selected as weaponry for LAV II vehicles delivered by General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada as an FMS project by the US Government.
I could be wrong but I think whoever wrote this assumed that because they were being made in Canada that they were destined for the Canadian Army but that's not how I read it

Don

Mobhack September 7th, 2010 05:00 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 757132)
Also, although the headline says "Patria’s Nemo Mortar System Selected for Canadian LAV II Vehicles "

what the article says is...

Quote:

Patria Nemo 120 mm mortar system has been selected as weaponry for LAV II vehicles delivered by General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada as an FMS project by the US Government.
I could be wrong but I think whoever wrote this assumed that because they were being made in Canada that they were destined for the Canadian Army but that's not how I read it

Don

That is already the POV at tanknet it appears: http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=32514

Cheers
Andy

DRG September 8th, 2010 09:31 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
The 724 Lav II's purchased by the Saudis a year ago was interesting info.....

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 11th, 2010 02:03 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Don't want to get too caught up in this and obviously we need better clarification on this deal, but this next article also points to Canada getting the NEMO on the face of it. I also ran across several sources that suggest the LAV II's referred to are for Saudi Arabia. I'll have to follow this "devil" closely.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news95241.html

Also the EXCALIBUR 1b updated 155mm shell to be fielded by 2012.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news94845.html

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 3rd, 2010 01:57 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
1 Attachment(s)
I was asked about this in a PM and it's come up elsewhere. I hope this article will help but more importantly look to the links on the bottom. Where they don't give you the complete articles all the time (That'll be $500 per annum.) the links usually are complete. These folks do a great job in their project timeline developments/updates. So here's "SEE-WHIZ"!
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-ashore-02620/
Pic:
Attachment 10537
Enjoy!

Regards,
Pat

Imp October 3rd, 2010 06:59 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 759810)
I was asked about this in a PM and it's come up elsewhere. I hope this article will help but more importantly look to the links on the bottom. Where they don't give you the complete articles all the time (That'll be $500 per annum.) the links usually are complete. These folks do a great job in their project timeline developments/updates. So here's "SEE-WHIZ"!
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-ashore-02620/
Pic:
Attachment 10537
Enjoy!

Regards,
Pat

Perhaps we should all donate $10 & let you at it & Jane's Pat, not sure your other half would approve though as you vanish down the internet:)

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 3rd, 2010 12:58 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
John and everyone else of like mind,
I appreciate the offer and the compliment attached. As for Aileen, I'm sort of already there a little bit! But she's a good woman (And I'm a very lucky man to have her.) who let's me "sail away" (To say "soldier on" just didn't seem appropriate!) with the news. Pencil whipping the list now to cover all my thread starters hope to post it now by the end of this month, too a much smaller degree I feel Don and Andy's (And any others?) pain with all the data in verification and cross referencing of it.
The weather is beautiful here today and I think a nice ride on the bicycle is called for to clear my head. Hope all your weekends are going well!!

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 12th, 2011 05:35 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
SP news,

1. Will the USMC EFSS/ITV 120mm survive the budget ax?
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...756/#more-6756

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 13th, 2011 11:30 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Just finishing what I started yesterday in the transfer of "raw data" from the "patch thread" to the home threads. Q&A between Don and myself along with the pictures are again, as a reminder in the "Patch Thread".

SP & SPAA...

A1. ADD: NORWAY/ARCHER/JAN 2012/Per SWEDISH UNIT 416/
This is a joint venture between the two countries. First operational units not due for delivery until OCT. 2011 again allowing for small delays and training w/JAN 2012. It should be noted as in the Post below; these are manufactured and sold with a matching ammo carrier as shown in the pictures of the post. Can maybe this be addressed at a later time within the game?
Don't know what the technical issues are to do this.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...142/#more-5142
Does the M 151 RO MG system need to be added? See "ARCHER SYSTEM" Para with pic.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/9306/
Covers joint deal w/delivery date.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/8490/
Announces prototype is ready. See related article links at bottom.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/archerhowitzer/
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2819.html

See links at bottom of article.

C1. CHANGE: SWEDEN/ARCHER/Fielded date of JAN 2012 vice
JAN 2010/

See notes and refs for A1 above.
Posts: Page 1; #5 & #6 and Page 2; #16.

C2. CHANGE: FINLAND/AMV AMOS/UNITS 335 & 348/Fielded dates to JAN 2013 vice Jan 2008./ The below source though not complete does start to mention contract issues. The Jan 2008 date was about the time the Swedes were having their legal issues with PATRIA as mentioned above in the APC section for the AMV. Also it's my understanding that the AMOS and NEMO systems are from the start capable of direct fire support out of the box, wouldn't it make sense to delete FINNISH UNIT 335 based on that and ensure that the SWEDISH AMV AMOS is a copy of FINNISH UNIT 348? Note dates are only 1yr. apart.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-Turret-06692/
Note it says "initial order" for the AMOS.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20563/
Specifically mentions that amendments were made to the original 2003 contract.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news105201.html
Again as above.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/propo...e_news_48.html
Again as above. I'm convinced that issues with the contract existed and I'm willing to bet it had to do with PATRIAs legal issues in Sweden as part of the cause in the delay as well. If you go to the equipment side of a couple of the above sites they support what's in the OOB however those obviously have not been updated to reflect the news side of these sites from this past
Dec. of 2010 when PATRIA released the press notice.

A2. ADD: UAE (GULF STATES an issue for later.) & SYRIA/PANTSYR-S1/JAN 2007 & JAN 2009 respectively./As per RUSSIAN UNIT 414./
These are among the six countries mentioned in the refs to have received these SPAA units, but are the only ones I can find firm dates for. The other countries are India sometime around mid 2007 - 2008, Algeria in ~2008 and Jordon & Libya ~2010 late -2011 late. I will find what I can but this will be for next year.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsf...ms_russia.html
About Algeria and Libya.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/
Please don't mix up contract dates with delivery dates. Note country and expected users mentioned.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...ification.html
See country user list bottom.
http://defense-update.com/products/p/pantsir.htm
Mentions India in the last line. Will make contact with BROADSWORD site to see if I can't get some independent confirmation on this.
Post: Page 1; #4 & #8.

M1. MOD: RUSSIA/PANTSYR-S1/UNIT 414/Name as shown vice
S1 PANTSYR/Fielded date from JAN 2008 to JAN 2010./

This is a highly capable SPAA unit that Russia exported before they made it operational for their Air Force. Per the post below they are using the more advanced SA-22 discussed. Name change based on refs. and the headache I got trying to verify status in the game, the last is the funny part!?!
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsf...greyhound.html
Russian operational induction in 2010.

M2. MOD: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 54/Change end date to JUN 2004 vice DEC 2001/Modify TI/GSR to 45 and EW to 5 as Unit 50 currently shows and possible 25mm ammo load maybe increased?/ Both units shared the same BLAZER turret. What really hurt this unit was its low production rate with only 17 total units made. Spares (electronic components) were already very expensive and made more so by the limited numbers. By permission I work with retired USMC GySGT. C. Vanderaa who was a gunner in the test unit evaluating the LAV-AD and he informed me there was one circuit board they had that cost just over 100K, ONE CARD. But he loved them just as any who served with them or were supported by them as they were used for fire support during the spring and summer of 2003 during OIF. Check the blogs for yourself. The 25mm is the same as used by the USMC Harriers and AC-130U SPOOKY w/APDU rounds as well I understand.
UPDATE 01/20/2011: Relieved the "Gunny" and he commented the following 1) BLAZER turret underwent only minor changes. 2) Explained "Vision" to him in game terms, he noted the systems FC and Vision were very sensitive and far reaching because one of the parameters in the design had to be the very fast and accurate response to "pop up" helos at close in and extended ranges. It was simply a matter of who shoots first wins. So ECM, FC & TI/GSR were very advanced for the time. 3) APDU were the preferred rounds carried on board to meet APC etc. threat, and he specifically mentioned to have the ability to take down the HINDS quickly if encountered and to take out fortified positions and anyone defending them which was very adept in during OIF. He got to see them in action in OIF and they were glad to have them. Apparently according to him they exceeded expectations locally in the ground support role. Ammo is an issue to be addressed based on this and below.
http://www.marines.mil/news/messages...es03top55.aspx
Note RMKS/1.C. the 4th LAV (AD) Platoon was the HQ Platoon. This message is dated on 241500Z NOV 2003, almost two months into FY04; this is why I chose JUN 2004 vice APR 2004(Mid point for FY04.). The latest date possible would be SEP 2004 as
OCT 2004 would start FY 2005.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx6/lav_ad/index.html
Capt. Whit Houston’s site, the last CO to command the LAV-AD Company when they cased their colors.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/jasonm/
Sgt. Jason Millett’s site, he served with Capt. Whit Houston during his tour as CO prior to, and during OIF until the unit cased its colors. You'll need a little patience to download his video but for those of you that served they'll see those kids weren't much different then when we did our time, enough said there. Towards the end are pictures of the 25mm rounds I mentioned above, if not APDU, they are certainly a modified AP round of some sort, I'll check with the "Gunny". Also a great song by "Three Doors Down" it sets the tone for the video and situation and reminds me of my own long deployments away from family but still surrounded by "family" under the waves.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ems/gau-12.htm
To support the above and APDU rounds, though on the HARRIER, I understand this was standard for the LAV-AD for the same purpose against air and light armored targets. Might this affect the current ammo penetration value given for the unit?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...v-ad-specs.htm
Note ammo load (out) is this an issue for the game unit?

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Ri...ge/GAW_LAV.htm
From some game site (UKN) but the info on the technical side (Non game.) is correct. Might be of some value for you developers as well.
http://www.generaldynamics.com/
No reference to the LAV-AD off the current site in the
Land Systems section.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM82Vuq3PdM
LAV-AD combat night action during OIF note comment section. Play it loud and in full screen and thank God you’re not on the receiving end! Short about 1 mike. Also answers the wheel spin effect in some pictures, that was brought up in the MRAP thread I believe, in the second comment called "stroboscopic effect”, who says we can't learn something new once in awhile?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooFmPUt6aA
General Dynamics Aerospace video on the LAV-AD BLAZER in action. Short about 1.5 mikes.
Added new pics because the one shown in the game is the export version with the MINSTREL System:
Pic:

D1. DELETE: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 50/
The LAV-AD BLAZER was taken out of service as the official USMC document will show above in M2 among other refs as well. This version I trust shows it with the STRINGER BLK II missile which had its funding stripped and was cancelled in 2002, it never was fielded. LAV-AD was eventually replaced by the HUMVEE AVENGER platform.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/blazer/ Supports info above in M2 as well.
End of Part 2.
Pat

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 6th, 2011 11:49 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
News of the last week.

1. Lost the article from JANEs but the headline was that France will receive the last 4 of 77 CEASAR units ordered by the end of the month-sorry.

2. How a phone call revolutionized artillery munitions.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22584/

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 5th, 2011 11:59 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
2 Attachment(s)
News of last week...

1. USA fields APMI 120mm GPS guided mortar cartridges to Afghanistan.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23135/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23297/


2. There have been numerous TORNADO sightings and "touchdowns" in Russia the affects of which can be destructive if in the vicinity. You'll just have to read it for yourself!?! ;)
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110328/163247668.html
These guys just seem to be ahead of everyone pretty often as I've noted before.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/9a52_4.htm
Attachment 10988 Attachment 10989

Follow up on! :capt:

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 23rd, 2011 12:15 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
News of the LW+:

1. EXCALIBUR 155mm PGR has been stepped up to full rate production status. With the improvements made to PALADIN (PIM) and Towed Howitzers (TH) in targeting capabilities over the the last year, it was only a matter of time before EXCALIBUR was mated to these improved systems in greater numbers. EXCALIBUR has lived up to all expectations in the field, especially in significantly lowering the possibility of collateral damage. Will it replace all conventional rounds? I don't think so, after all as I already noted in this thread the improved BAE targeting system (For TH.) can take out a truck at five miles with one shot. However given the choice especially in populated areas I'm sure the call will be "EXCALIBUR ON THE WAY!"
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23944/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-Shells-06835/


2. USA learning from cancelled programs.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23843/

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 24th, 2011 12:24 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Thailand contracted to buy the very capable CEASAR SPA in 2006 but apparently to what amounts to only a platoons worth of 6 units. The order was to be completed by the end of 2010. Based on this info I'll recommend June 2010, and disregard 2007 from Post#7, the French Army fielded the CEASAR in July 2008 with dedicated ammo resupply units as also pictured in Post #7.
ADD/THAILAND/JUNE 2010/CEASAR w/Dedicated ammo resupply vehicle./C6/L52 155mm 18Rds (Including OGRE CM.) and 12.7mm UKN Rds/DEFENCE: Armored Cab offering protection against SAF & Arty SSplinters./ Note on OGRE CM a six shell salvo will release 368 bomblets covering in saturation an area of 3 hectares or 30,000 Square Meters that's for the CM doubters still out there. For additional information see Post #7, and ref below and note para 5.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/caesar/
Also since we're here ADD/SAUDI ARABIA/JUNE 2011/Based on para 6 of above ref as well./


Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 17th, 2011 02:06 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
1. IRON DOME it's quite a hit! I don't believe the earlier articles directly identified the type of rockets brought down.
http://defense-update.com/wp/2011040..._ashkelon.html

2. MEADS continues on developmental track before program ends.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25375/

3. Some have asked so here's a system to help you better understand how counter battery works.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25184/

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH July 3rd, 2011 03:29 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
More MEADS news. What's of interest is that Poland is very much considering the system and is looking into the possibility of being a partner in the program. This could have some interesting ramifactions for the program down the road. On the last Ref. check the JUNE 15 & 21 Key Events. 2014 takes it to plus 1 year past U.S. development phase date as planned previously.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25598/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25597/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...639/#contracts


Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 26th, 2011 12:20 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
I don't see much more here however I will further look into the Norwegian NASAM mobile launcher issue, which as stated below, I believe will use the same platform as the Finns. Again from PP#1 2011/2012.

SPA and SPAA
Just a couple of items here with a reminder.

M1. FINLAND/M270 MRLS/DEC 2011/UNIT 557 & 554(?)/MODIFY/Finland has only been operating the system since 2007. This upgrade provides for Precision Fire FCS, GPS Targeting, extends ordnance options and ranges.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/p...3_million.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/24639/
http://www.deagel.com/news/Finnish-A...000008771.aspx
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mlrs/
http://www.asdnews.com/news/30848/Fi...em_Upgrade.htm

Pics:

A1. ADD/RUSSIA/TORNADO MRLS/APR 2011/C2/6 & 12 ML 300mm SMERCH Rockets/ These are updated versions of the SMERCH rocket that are GPS guided. It can carry multiple munitions types and can still launch the unguided versions. The key here is the improved operability of the system from the launcher which is much more maneuverable, air mobile and much easier and faster to reload. This is the replacement for the BM-21 GRAD which is taking place at this time. The Max. range is 70km and 90km with a specialized rocket.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...formation.html
See Page 3 Post #30 Item #2.


A2. ADD/FINLAND/NASAMS II FIN/JAN 2015/C 4/6 Multiple Launcher AIM 120 AMRAAM/USE UNIT 551 TRUCK/Modify UNIT 559 accordly./ The truck used in UNIT 551 looks like the SISU 8x8 that will be the primary carrier for the system. This system will be more advanced then shown by UNIT 559 which was probably based on NASAMS as used by the Norwegians for the past ten years. I also believe the Norwegian system is mobile as well but might not get to it this first time around and I think they also use the same truck as well. Most Refs below were pulled from the "Transport for U.S. Patriot..." thread Pgs. 3 & 4. As you can see I built on to this one, didn't expect to see it, and missed it at first.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23345/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...Systems-05398/
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4313048
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/fea...aam/index.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...y_0804113.html
http://www.sisudefence.fi/node/29
http://www.sisudefence.fi/product/8x8


A3. ADD/POLAND/ZUBR P/APR 2011/C2/RWS POPARD SAM w/12 PZR GROM-2 AA missiles./ To be honest I'm making an educated guess on GROM load out based on size and payload capacity of the ZUBR-P and size of the missile as it is also a MANPAD system used by Polish forces. The Poles also use the GROM-2 on the
ZSU-23-4MP BIALA and ZUR-23-2KG.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/zubr-apc/
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor...p?armor_id=451
http://www.military-today.com/apc/zubr_mrap.htm
http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...om-Poland.html

Pic:

R1. THAILAND/CAESAR/REMINDER/ADD per Post #32 (DATA already in PP format.)./USE FRANCE UNIT 050 or 051. /Post #7 provides additional background information.

R2. SAUDI ARABIA/CAESAR/REMINDER/ADD per Post #32 (DATA already in PP format.)./USE FRANCE UNIT 050 or 051. /Post #7 provides additional background information.

News...
1. DENAL of S. Africa, an LAV III and a 105mm and you got a fast, mobile and as it turns out an highly accurate SPA piece.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/south..._pictures.html
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2253.html


2. The extent to which some countries arm their POLICE in this case they engage the PPK rebels regularly.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56

3. Brazil and the ASTROS 2020 MRL Program and Israel is watching as it looks to update it's SPA's.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=58
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27262/


That should be it for the segments, now PP#2 work can now can continue.

Gotta rescue a 180lb. dummy amongst other things in the morning so I'll say good night and have a great week!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 15th, 2012 02:21 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
China looks to get Patriot Missiles in a most unusual arms procurment move well almost. How can this happen? Well you'll just have to read these for yourself.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16292244
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...DaP_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...qcP_story.html


Hate to lose this info some might find it useful, can't remember if I posted this regarding the FUZE thread or not. This is a good home for it anyway.
http://dmilt.com/docs/PGM.pdf

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 5th, 2012 05:39 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
I think some might find these interesting on the North Korean TYPE-63 107mm MRL and M-1979/M-1989 170mm SPA. These are from the excellent KPAJOURNAL.
http://www.kpajournal.com/vol-2-no-2-february-2011/
http://www.kpajournal.com/vol-2-no-6-june-2011/
http://www.kpajournal.com/vol-2-no-7-july-2011/


Again the homepage of this excellent site with professional analysis:
http://www.kpajournal.com/

Regards,
Pat

Marcello February 6th, 2012 04:42 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Quote:

A1. ADD/RUSSIA/TORNADO MRLS/APR 2011/C2/6 & 12 ML 300mm SMERCH Rockets/ These are updated versions of the SMERCH rocket that are GPS guided. It can carry multiple munitions types and can still launch the unguided versions. The key here is the improved operability of the system from the launcher which is much more maneuverable, air mobile and much easier and faster to reload. This is the replacement for the BM-21 GRAD which is taking place at this time. The Max. range is 70km and 90km with a specialized rocket.
The problem with adding it is that in the game its advantages (guidance, mobility etc.) are not visible, as such systems are now off map only and "guidance" is simulated, to the extent it is possible, via FOs. Therefore all you are going to get in practice is a cheaper Smerch launcher with far fewer rockets.

dmnt February 6th, 2012 08:18 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 784437)
I don't see much more here however I will further look into the Norwegian NASAM mobile launcher issue, which as stated below, I believe will use the same platform as the Finns. Again from PP#1 2011/2012.

A2. ADD/FINLAND/NASAMS II FIN/JAN 2015/C 4/6 Multiple Launcher AIM 120 AMRAAM/USE UNIT 551 TRUCK/Modify UNIT 559 accordly./ The truck used in UNIT 551 looks like the SISU 8x8 that will be the primary carrier for the system. This system will be more advanced then shown by UNIT 559 which was probably based on NASAMS as used by the Norwegians for the past ten years. I also believe the Norwegian system is mobile as well but might not get to it this first time around and I think they also use the same truck as well. Most Refs below were pulled from the "Transport for U.S. Patriot..." thread Pgs. 3 & 4. As you can see I built on to this one, didn't expect to see it, and missed it at first.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23345/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...Systems-05398/
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4313048
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/fea...aam/index.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...y_0804113.html
http://www.sisudefence.fi/node/29
http://www.sisudefence.fi/product/8x8

Finnish military official site has been updated recently and lists also some generic information about the NASAMS system:
Minister of Defence decided in 2009 that BUK M1 (local designation ITO96) will be replaced with Norwegian NASAMS II system. The material will be received in 2011 and first conscripts will be trained in 2012.

Fire distribution center: Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace AS.
Radar: Raytheon AN/MPQ-64F1 "Sentinel"
Electro-optical sensor: Rhein*metall Defence Electronics MSP 600, TI, CCTV and laser range finder
Carrier: Sisu 8x8
Missile: AIM-120 AMRAAM

Main reason for the switch is the poor performance of BUK M1 against ECM systems.

Machine translated page: here

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 26th, 2012 01:01 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
3 Attachment(s)
This will be a busy year in this area not all will be expected to make it I'm sure as by arrangement, I'm trying to stay within a two to three year window to avoid the house keeping that's occurred in the OOBs over the last couple of years in a more aggressive manner. I have to keep the housekeeping going at my end as the data complied is interfering with my work in the Helo and Jets area that I was both unable to get too but would've complicated matters during the 2011/2012 campaign as well. The Helos & Jets will go in separately as presented Patch Posts as these are both being worked now for the 2012/2013 Campaign after this thread is addressed the APC one will be the last one caught up to date of saved materials. Some refs starting with the below will be reused to support others by their nature of reporting. The game face is almost on...again.

1) Algeria you've seen this ref in the MBT Thread the focus here is on the S-300 PMU2 which is the improved export version. System and transport info provided as well.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...a_1802122.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/s-300..._sheet_uk.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/s-300...efense_uk.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...everage-02024/
TRACK/ADD.


2) MEADS update successful "over the shoulder" launch. What's the big deal well you'll have to research that yourselves but in the short term that's a significant milestone and not every system is capable of that. Also ref on Command & Control vehicle. No more updates on Poland's interest to get involved with the program as a partner. The U.S., Germany and Italy are committed through the operational testing phase to avoid MAJOR financial penalties.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...639/#contracts
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32689/
TRACK/OOB MODIFY AS NEEDED.


3) Brazil to field improved ASTROS II.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27262/
TRACK/ADD.


4) Norway to update NASAMS probably to the NASAMS II System look to Finland's unit as submitted in the 2011/2012 Campaign.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/30255/
TRACK/ADD.


5) USA PIM is to ready with first units to be delivered to the Army in late 2013. Have seen nothing to indicate there was a problem in the final test evaluations conducted last fall. Believe OOB date has these available next year. This is a much improved version of the PALADIN, using many of the upgrades from the cancelled NLOS-C Program.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27392/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/19209/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...M109A6-Paladin
TRACK/VERIFY/POSSIBLE OOB MODIFICATION.


6) S. Korea taking a lesson from the Chinese in the area of truck mounting their artillery, in this case a truck mounted advanced
105mm. Apparently they had these in production since 2010. I'm thinking JUN 2011 or JAN 2012. Will need more refs here.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/28569/
ADD.


7) USA AN/TQP 53 CB Range Finder this is for you CB guys (Like me.) Also EQ-36 addressed in second ref.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32959/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...rs-ASAP-05006/
MODIFY CB?/PROBALY GOOD AS IS?/FYI


8) Russia S-500 delayed with testing to continue later this year. Fielding in 2017. I can't remember but I thought I saw these
in the OOB, if so the date will need to be changed. We ran into this with a mod I submitted 2 years ago with the S-400 now fixed I believe.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...7_0802121.html
VERIFY OOB/TRACK/FYI.


9) Chinese to build new SH-1 for Pakistan, this is a truck mounted SP 155mm, they recieved them in 2009 but I don't believe these to be in the OOB.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/china..._pictures.html
VERIFY OOB/ADD/FYI.


10) Why? Two reasons 1. I thought somebody(s) were doing work in this area. 2) Outside of this ref, I'm seeing interest by other countries to import this system.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/georg...pictures_.html
FYI/TRACK.

Pic: Attachment 11756

11) N. Korean M-1991. With N. Korea when you get worthwhile weapons info you post it, some of us get major headaches dealing with all their "what ifs" when it comes to weapons.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/north...res_video.html
FYI.


12) IDF looking for MRLS.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
TRACK/FYI.


13) Japan and UK to work on a new joint venture 155mm type.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...y_0503124.html
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
TRACK/FYI.


14) Peru AGAIN if you've been following the other new thread posts of the last week. I'll combine these system refs to save time.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=58
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=58
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...efenses-07339/
TRACK/ADD.


15) Philipines looking to update SAM units.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
TRACK/ADD.


16) Poland to improve S-125 SC NEWA Systems.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...a_0703122.html
TRACK/FYI


17) Taiwan to have their PATRIOTs upgraded from PAC-2 to the PAC-3 this is a major upgrade in overall performance.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...y_1912115.html
TRACK/ADD.


18) S. Korea to field in 2013 the CHEONGUNG M-SAM.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...m_2212111.html
ADD.

Pic: Attachment 11757

19) Taiwan has unveiled the fact that the RT-2000 MRLS is in serial production, at the time of this ref there was alot of concerns over Chinas intentions in the waters in there area. This weapon would qualify as an on map system as stated in the article as a part of it's mission capability.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
ADD.

Pic: Attachment 11758

20) USA uses the M11330E1 105mm Arty round.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/novem...e_1611113.html
ADD.


All pictures shown are from the refs presented with the topic.

Well there you have it. Wouldn't want you to think I was just sitting on my "donkey' all this time. Hope you all have a great start to the week, it's off to the zoo with the "GD" and CINCLANTHOME later today. Lifes rough sometimes! ;)

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 7th, 2012 12:54 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
It's a good night for some house cleaning.

1. A belated Happy 25th to the SAF G6 still one of the most advanced SP systems out there and a long time leader in the "range game".
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2406.html
FYI.


2. BAE wins a contract modifications for the M109A6 PIM and I'll need to check for a fielding date modification.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...pim-programme/
VERIFY DATES.


3. Want to develop your own artillery? Well do what the Kalyani Group in India has done by buying the gun, then buying the factory that made it and finally move the factory brick by brick from Austria to India.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/...illery-to.html
FYI.


4. USA buying the latest CB Fire Radar systems. I think this more as an FYI issue vs a game issue. Though I've been involved in many arty issues I feel in this area no further changes need to be asked for or made within the game concerning this issue. This is more about understanding how things work.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/34966/
FYI.


5. Chile to upgrade it's M109A5 with work being done in the U.S. Read para three for the upgrades due to be completed in 10/2013.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/28431/
MODIFY UNITS.


6. A think tanks thoughts on MEADS and the USA.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/34675/
FYI.


7. S. K orean company partners up w/L&T of India in a joint tender to produce Indias SP 155mm. Note the picture.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...a_0304121.html
TRACK.


8. It's nice to have money in a story related to the above.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
FYI.


9. Italy wants the U.S. to maintain it's commitment to MEADS.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
FYI.


10. Morocco fields the M109A5 from the U.S.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=55
ADD.


11. The new PATRIOT GEM-T missile has successfuly intercepted a target in a high density enviroment.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...ight_test.html
TRACK.


12. Russia sucessfully tests a new thermobaric rocket for the TOS-1 which entered service in late 2000. Don't know if there's a date issue or not for the game concerning TOS-1.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...t_1104122.html
VERIFY DATE AND FYI.


13. Russia pulls SMERCH from Indonesias MRLS tender.
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120502/173165458.html
FYI.


Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH December 23rd, 2013 10:18 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Moving this up for current helo discussion concerning helo armor and there will be much work here hopefully for the next Patch. LAV-AD will be discussed in the other thread.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 17th, 2014 03:49 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
4 Attachment(s)
Well the timing works in getting this to it's home page if you will from last patch (The Aussies have it now-Thanks Don.) and helping a learned colleague out here at the same time. Seems the M777 155mm needs some clarification concerning the USMC and the USA.
1. The term M777 is only generic to the system in general. It is an Army run program. The system in reality needs to be thought of as the M777A1 and the M777A2. The M777 should be considered probably the best and most advanced LW (Or other.) towed 155mm out there. Also of note the crew size is 8 with a minimum of five that can still maintain an ROF of I believe it was 2 Rounds per minute.
What made the M777A1 so advanced was the mounted onboard "black boxes" you'll clearly see on the left side of the barrel in the picture below. It's a FCS that's GPS based with a very advanced C4 package that's fully satellite supported and allows for targeting data from ground/air and satellites. For the M777A1 I would recommend the following dates at this point for both services. The USA 10/2006 - 12/2008/USMC 06/2005 - 12/2008. I based the end date on the following data; of the 495 systems ordered by both services 400 M777A1 systems were upgraded by 08/2008. For the last 95 systems this is WELL within the "swag" of six months that Don and I have had to use on rare occasions when no good hard dates are available.

To prevent any heart attacks out there; it was identified that the need was greatest for the CORPS in updating their M198 155mm pieces first as one of the considerations involved in who got it first.

Concerning the M777A2 the difference here is that with the development of advanced precision guided munitions that which ended up to be the EXCALIBUR precision guided round (That was used extensively in Afghanistan from March 2008 by both services.) the software package needed to be upgraded which improved also all the features noted for the M777A1 suite. This also included some minor hardware upgrades as well. This is what "makes" and allows the M777A2 to fire these type of advanced rounds. Full material release for both services occurred in 07/2007 and allowing for initial installation, I would recommend the following dates at this point for both services. The USA/USMC 10/2007 - 12/2020. I would recommend reading the PM 4 info below as it ties in with this discussion in greater detail on system equipment components.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ufh/
http://www.defenseinnovationmarketpl...ograms2013.pdf
Section 4 FIRE SUPPORT PAGE 101/ALSO SEE PAGES 67-75 FOR OTHER INFO OF USE.

For the CORPS:
Attachment 12974

Bottomline: USA/USMA are all in on the M777A2. ADF info below makes for good reading as well.

PM4. AUSTRALIA/ADD/JUL 2011/C8/M777A2 155mm w/Rockwell FIRESTORM DTCS/AMMO XM1156 GPS FUZE KITS (EXCALIBUR) and DIEHL/RHEINMETALL SMArt 155 AT Rds//
This much like the LAND 106 (M113AS3/4) the LAND 17 (Artillery Replacement Program) was also plagued by numerous delays. The purpose of the program was to retire the 105mm M2A2, L119 HAMEL 105mm FG and M198 155mm (Addressed below). This weapon is considered in the “ultra-light weight” category. The A2 is the newest version of the piece. Also the system is so user friendly that it can be operated by a crew of 5 though, as noted above 8 is the standard crew for all users of the M777. The FIRESTORM DTCS (Digital Terminal Control System) will allow for instant targeting coordination that will include a tablet PC, a laser range finder, a laser target designator, a real-time video downlink receiver, a manpack radio, and the firm’s Defense Advanced GPS Receiver (DAGR).
Both the USA and USMC have already been equipped with the FIRESTORM DTCS package for their M777 pieces. It should be pointed out at this juncture that there are only two versions of the M777 as taken from Ref 1 as follows; “The systems fitted with the digital fire control system are designated M777A1, and those with the software update which allows the firing of the Excalibur projectile, M777A2. M777A2 received full material release in July 2007, clearing the upgrade for fielding. All M777A1 systems will be upgraded to the A2 standard.” This is in reference the U.S. so changes need to be made to both the USA and USMC OOB’s (Ref 2) and possibly Canada as well. The ADF site (Ref 1) no longer shows any other artillery being used in active service. The LAND 17 Phase 2 (Or 1C.) part of the program was also delayed and finally cut due to budget issues in May 2012. This program was to chose an SPA option for the ADF. The Australian 105mm has been retired, the L119 HAMEL 105mm has a battery on active service at their Artillery School and there are indications they along with the M198 155mm are in service with the Australian reserve forces. I have feelers out for information in Australia at this time so this and the above issues can wait until next year.
http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Equi.../M777-Howitzer
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ufh/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...goahead-01928/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...s_0606122.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/octob...2_1610122.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...tillery-03911/
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/mack_mc3.htm
Refer to the #15 Australian OOB Queries Thread by TDR for further info if desired in Posts 6, 12 and 15.

Pics for Game UNIT Picture from ADF files:
Attachment 12975 Attachment 12976
Attachment 12977

Some of us have to get our beauty sleep before work (Sorry forgot there's not enough time in the Universe to help me with that :shock:!!!!) so good night.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 17th, 2014 04:27 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
My Ref. 1 from PM4 in my last should read Ref. 2 the clock ran out on my editing it for this Thread. However I did repost the ref under my discussion of the M777 in regards to the USA/USMC as well-hey it's Ref. 1 there!?!.

Sorry any confusion but it is late. Sounded good at the moment anyway. Gotta hit the rack.

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir May 17th, 2014 11:03 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
The two major questions are:
1) The current M777 (presumably A1) has an Accuracy of 10. What's the Accuracy of the A2/Excalibur?
2) Will the USA/USMC will use up their existing stocks of 155mm ammo and then use Excalibur rounds exclusively? If not the M777A2 should be a new unit available apx. 07/2008 and the existing M777A1 units should remain in the OOBs.

##############################
Excalibur was developed as a longer-ranged alternative to conventional artillery shells, with GPS guidance for improved accuracy. Excalibur has a range of approximately 40 to 57 kilometres (25 to 35 mi) depending on configuration, with a circular error probable (CEP) of around 5 metres (16 ft) to 20 metres (66 ft). The extended range is achieved through the use of folding glide fins, which allow the projectile to glide from the top of a ballistic arc towards the target.
Initial combat experience with Excalibur in Iraq in the summer of 2007 was highly successful, with 92% of rounds falling within 4 metres (13 ft) of the target. Its performance was so impressive that the U.S. Army planned to increase production to 150 rounds per month from the previous 18 rounds per month.

http://sill-www.army.mil/firesbullet...ages_14_15.pdf

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 18th, 2014 02:43 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
First I mean NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE FOR MY TONE ON PARTS OF THIS, BELOW IS AS MUCH EXPLANATION AS I'LL OFFER...

I have to be brief as I came home to stand tall before CINCLANTHOME, so basically we've had some SERIOUS scares around here for over a year now, I've been asked to do what others are doing now and that means to catch our breath a little as we still face a couple of challenges ahead of us. I really need to limit my time out here and I can't spend much more time on this issue because the world keeps spinning around. Sorry that's all I can say publicly or in private. But the word of the day is "DOGHOUSE". I leave it to you to figure out the phrase the word can be used in. So let's get this done-please!

I stick by my Post above #43 a 100%. M777 is a generic term for the system like ABRAMS is for the MBT. The accuracy conversions as I've indicated in the past I have no clue about and quite frankly I have no interest in. I can only report and care about the raw data and the numbers derived from that research in real world terms. If I was that smart I'd be designing games myself and then God help us all!?! I leave that to you folks and I thank everyone that can do that out here in the forum. I do care about if it works/looks right in the game, that's where I make the connection of data vs. the game.

1. Dates given for the M777A1 & M777A2 are as good as I can give from the refs. And to be absolutely clear the army-technology site represents a composite formed from other refs in the "harder" dates I provided.

2. I will provide refs below that will show an accuracy to average 1.6 meters with 35 rounds fired at targets at various ranges. You will be in a data rich environment when you look at them. Those numbers are derived from op evals and combat sources.

3. This is where I got frustrated-I thought I clearly stated why the M777A2 package was developed, so that it can fire precision munitions in this case EXCALIBUR. I also noted that the side benefit was increased accuracy overall of the system/M777A2.

4. Conventional rounds are going the way of the dinosaur, almost 800 rounds of EXCALIBUR have been fired in theatre. We are on the third/or fourth upgrade in the field of EXCALIBUR at this time. To be clear the M777A2 can fire both conventional and precision rounds. EXCALIBUR is already in full rate production.

5. EXCALIBUR vs. Conventional rounds provided below are ratios of shells required to hit targets at various ranges. The range/ratio fall between 1:10 to 1:80 rounds or more. It is much cheaper at these ratios and causes much less collateral damage to use EXCALIBUR, as this was a chief complaint from the Afghan government concerning our operations there in using conventional munitions of all types. This again from the Army ref. which covers this in an easy format.

6. The M777A1 is no more. I will offer this ref from my last post again from the USMC. It should be noted nowhere does it mention the M777A1 it's all about the M777A2 Ref is from 2013. Again start on Page 106 for this discussion.
http://www.defenseinnovationmarketpl...ograms2013.pdf

The numbers stuff...
From Raytheon:
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities...cts/excalibur/
http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2517


From the ARMY of interest focus on all but, especially Slides 7 and 9:
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012annual_psr/Milner.pdf



In the field already (EXCALIBUR 1b) and with U2 providing the music how can you go wrong-feelin better already!! Please note the target distances in the upper right corner of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNCUeItvovs

CINCLANTHOME says I need more sleep before work and since I'm in a weapons environment I'll just say she's right and good night!!

Regards,
Pat

DRG May 18th, 2014 07:06 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
Pat. Take all the time you need. The forum is a distant secondary at best. We are on a hiatus and game development is on HOLD until we are not and I don't see that happening for awhile.

Take a break from this and deal with what's important. Staying up to the wee hours to report on game issues and losing sleep in the process is just not worth it. It's just a game


Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 19th, 2014 02:42 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
To be clear "There is no crying in baseball." that applied to my career on submarines, my current job and the people there who have my back and me their's and this forum in general. However, reflecting back on some of my posts over the last several months, there comes a time to do the right thing and that time is now for this instance. You see Suhiir asked for my opinion, advice and recommendations for issues concerning the CORPS (A scary proposition in it's own right, I mean cmon it's that whole NAVY vs marine thing-oops should've made that all caps as well!?!) I could've politely bowed out but said I would be glad to help. So Suhiir please accept my apologies. If you will allow it, I would be glad to finish what we started.
Don you are correct in your assessment, CINCLANTHOME and I have been through a lot (Right from the start married, pregnant 2 months later (That Dec. evening a couple of weeks before Christmas she tells me the great news and I respond like everyone husband would by saying... "How did that happen!?!" absolutely true! :D) six weeks later I'm deploying (My avatar picture.) for seven months to the North Atlantic and Med to play underwater tag and hide n seek with the Soviets. That command was very special to us even though I was deployed 89% of the time over four+ years. And we're still hanging in there almost 28yrs. later. This is who I am and I'm a little adrift from that person now-thank you Don again your right.
After I tidy up a bit around here, I think it's time not to turn out the lights but dim them down somewhat.

Regards,
Pat

P.S. Oh never mind but, rest assured when all the lights come back on, the room won't be empty! ;)

Suhiir May 19th, 2014 04:44 AM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
We all "have our moments".
Somewhere behind the facade of "guru" there lurks a real person.
Well...I think Don is real...you can never be sure about a Canuck.

As to my questions you did answer #2 pretty thoroughly.
I sort of assumed they'd probably go exclusively Excalibur but one can never be sure when politicians are involved.

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 5th, 2015 01:58 PM

Re: SP and SPAA Developments
 
This next provides a situational update on Ukraine as well and more importantly weapons/ammo load data on the TOS-1 and TOS-1A that we might not have. Note the picture at the bottom of a post launch from a TOS-1A (Which is in the foreground slightly off center to the right of the picture,) I see it as a two rocket launch and very nasty.

From the article...
"The TOS-1 is often referred to by Russia as a heavy flamethrower, although it actually fires short-range (3,500 m) 220mm rockets armed with thermobaric warheads. The TOS-1 is based on a T-72 main battle tank (MBT) chassis and can mount 30 missiles. An upgraded version, the TOS-1A, features an improved rocket with an extended range out to 6,000 m and mounts 24 missiles."

The ref...
http://www.janes.com/article/48685/r...n-east-ukraine

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


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