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-   -   MBT's (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45260)

DRG July 2nd, 2022 05:46 PM

Re: MBT's
Be interesting to see what Turkey gets as the price of acceptance. Can't imagine they did it without some kickback

Aeraaa July 3rd, 2022 03:07 AM

Re: MBT's
Finally being able to upgrade their F16s could be one explanation.

blazejos July 18th, 2022 03:48 AM

Re: MBT's
First Abrams tanks already today 18 July arrived to Poland



DRG July 18th, 2022 07:25 AM

Re: MBT's
Yes but the article also says......

on which the soldiers of the Polish Army will be trained
So they are arriving in Poland but not yet operational......... but they have started to arrive which is " a good thing"

FASTBOAT TOUGH July 18th, 2022 11:35 PM

Re: MBT's
I also see no APS Trophy. And they are likely the M1A2 tanks that were to be supplied for training purposes as part of the deal for them to get the M1A2P tanks which were included in that package.

Poland has also requested from us to get the ABRAMS M1A1 in exchange for a full transfer to the Ukraine of their PT-91 tanks. If approved, those tanks are expected to come from the former USMC M1A1 tanks that haven't been converted over to the M1A2C.
(Notice the "discipline" in the use of nomenclature names of the tanks discussed. No FEP anywhere.)

Ref. 2 in paras 5 & 6 CONFIRMS the one thing
, as I've stated already when the USMC started turning over their tanks to the USA, that the last to go will be the M1A1 FEP tanks. They'll also be the easiest to convent over to the M1A2C.

As I'm in Va. at the moment on a long overdue and needed vacation I haven't checked my "newspapers" since last Sat. before work. Found the second ref. as I was writing this. This to explain any "disconnect" in this post.

Also remember those USMA tanks WILL BE "denuded" of their DU Armor and advanced Electronics. The Iraqi M1A1 SA tanks make sense for these tanks. Sorry can't get you the game UNIT # as I'm far, far away.

As expected and hoped for 95 feels like it here and NOT like 105 and humid back home-best part my daughter doesn't require me to wear the body armor here!!

I still feel the Ukraine will at some point get the PT-91 tanks I feel by mid to late Fall or end of the year depending how the war goes. Putin is all in with talk of a coordinated 3-pronged attack from the North, East and SE.

If it comes the "clock is ticking" for the Russians they'd need to start it by this time next month or end for any chance of success before the weather will stall the drive.

Also, Belarus would be the "key" for the attack from the North. There are already confirmed reports some of their commanders would refuse to cross the border for offensive operations against Ukraine.

Time will tell.


FASTBOAT TOUGH July 19th, 2022 12:58 PM

Re: MBT's
I must apologize, from Para 1 of my last post (And now corrected.) I identified those tanks incorrectly as being M1A1 tanks.

They are in reality the M1A2 (28 UNITS) tanks which I did manage to correctly identify as the tanks to be used as training platforms for the M1A2P due to start production in late 2024 and with delivery of the first tanks to start sometime in 2025.

But also, of the below following Para from this next ref. in which I've "highlighted" my concern as I thought shortly after the last patch, I saw this tank was "operational" I speak of the LEOPARD 2PL.

Again, not at home and can't verify that against the OOB. Just my memory telling me so is all.

If the START isn't an issue this is an UPDATE to its status. If OPERATIONAL in the game could be another matter of "THEY GOT THEIR FIRST ONE" again.

"Before the war in Ukraine, Poland had a total of 137 Leopard 2A4 (being upgraded to 2PL) 105 Leopard 2A5, 5 Leopard 2PL (in test) 232 PT-91 Twardy, and 329 T-72A/T-72M1. There are also rumors that Poland could also give its PT-91s MBTs to Ukraine."

Again, If I caused any confusion, sorry. There now is "balance in the universe". :cool:


FASTBOAT TOUGH July 20th, 2022 09:35 PM

Re: MBT's
As we (And the many countries that have bought their armor as well.) are finding out they aren't as good as they advertised. And the signs were already there years ago if we (Not us here.) had paid more attention. Right "off the bat" Egypt comes to mind in its massive shift from Russian armor to American armor for well over a decade now.

Let me remind you that Egypt have had enough combat experience against an army from a small country called Israel. Though strong leadership and training played a major role in their success against Egypt (+ Syria) but so did in most cases they had better tanks as well.

Egypt has learned from their mistake, Syria has not.

In the "Cold War" we feared the mass of Russian armor (However with the advent of the T-80 and they were stationed in East Germany (Only Warsaw Pact country to have them outside of Russia.) did cause some worries for NATO. But fortunately for NATO Russia feared the "DRAGON" ATGW.

If only they knew what we did, they might've given it a try. I posted at least twice maybe in this thread or one labeled "CIA something" the CIA documents that were released after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the mid 90's that discussed both these topics and more.

Other examples of the "signs" should've been the Afghan/Russian War and when I finally we think we woke up and realized "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself" and overcame that in both Iraqi Wars.

Maybe in my favorite of all tank countries INDIA that again just MAYBE they'll wake to the fact they have a GREAT tank in the ARJUN which we have both in the game and the current development of a lightweight tank to counter the Chinese TYPE 15 in the mountainous areas of India. Also, they will probably have to deal with an "unfriendly" Pakistan for some time to come.

As of this writing depending on source it appears Russia has lost 8-10 of their best tanks the T-90M.

That's about 1/2 of their total fielded force.

Here's the story and all I can say to a point I made above is maybe the Russian Army had wished they could've sent some of their Armor commanders and crews for training in Israel.
Some of the above from the Moscow Times with link to their story.

This as good as any location for the following. We are it looks like going to commit to giving longer range anti-ship missiles to the Ukraine. Using my naval training and having operated "restricted waters" the "bathtubs" called the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea might soon afford no "safe harbor" anywhere in those waters.

Ukraine has recently commented that the Crimea will be considered as legitimate target inside their country. I believe I also read that in one of the above articles.


Karagin July 20th, 2022 10:13 PM

Re: MBT's
The MIC sold us on the dangers of the Soviet war machine and how we needed to keep making stuff and advance our tech to beat their numbers...

FASTBOAT TOUGH July 21st, 2022 06:22 PM

Re: MBT's
Today we hit on what Poland will be getting from South Korea.

Before I go on, ensure "you don't get your panties in a wad" because this deal is a long way off.

First it is hoped that both parties will have possibly by the end of the month either an MOU (Memorandum Of Understanding) or an MOA (Memorandum Of Agreement) which is a more binding agreement BUT, NOT A CONTRACT.

The deal is apparently worth 2.3 trillion dollars.

Poland will get 180 K2 Black Panther MBTs, 670 K9 Thunder 155mm howitzers and 48 FA-50s (Supersonic Trainer/Light Attack aircraft. These are generally considered the best in this type of craft in the world.) and will apparently receive 20 of them this year.

Don, I remember having discussions on the K2PL but I can't remember that we modeled them. Like how we modeled the foreign sales U.S. M1A2C, I see the foreign sales K2 somewhere between the K1 and K2.

Poland wants the K9 due to issues that the KRAB (Based on the K9.) has been suffering from since it entered service.

I strongly caution everyone we probably except for the jets as noted, will be unlikely to see the tanks and the artillery is up in the air.


DRG July 21st, 2022 06:58 PM

Re: MBT's
Gonna " wait and see " for this one. It is a bit of change in direction

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