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-   -   Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=52464)

Wdll August 27th, 2020 05:31 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa (Post 848347)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll (Post 848255)
Part 11 is up.
I don't think I like top attack ATGMs.
In fact, I am pretty sure I don't.

https://youtu.be/1n79DuY5VVE

Yeah, all Greece vs. Turkey battles I've played were more or less the same motif: Turkish tanks obliterated early on and then Greek armor takes sporadic losses from Milan IIIs.

The counter to this is to try to always have your armor covered behind buildings, ridges or trees (although the latter has to be in deep forestm, modern ATGMs can fire through non-dense tree patches), use cheaper vehicles to draw fire and shell the ATGMs into oblivion. And use infantry to advance forward with tanks only poping out to fire some shots then going back into cover.
My only issue is time limit and score. To have a good victory you need to attack. Attack means losses. :mad:

Wdll August 27th, 2020 05:35 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 848348)
I would have said Greece vs Turkey has more equal parity tanks than most nations across the years.
Later on if you go all Leo2A6HEL as Greece an advantage for a while - better to play as Turkey probably.
AI is not likely to buy all LeoHEL though Greece has around 1000 Leo 1's & 350 Leo2's just under half are HEL variety so less than 10% are LeoHEL
Turkey used to have a similar number of Leo2's so they may well meet in practice, no idea if numbers changed once M60T came online.

Me playing as Turkey...yeah somehow I don't see that happening any time soon.

I don't have that many Leo2Hel and they barely got to play much in the current battle, at least against armor. They haven't really affected this battle that much. I would say if I had zero of them in this battle and instead had other tanks, I would still have more or less the same result here. Turkey never had Leo 2 of the Hel level. Up to 2A4 IIRC. I know they lost several tanks in Syria over the last few years, but for the life of me right now I can't remember what tanks exactly.

Aeraaa August 27th, 2020 05:50 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll (Post 848350)
I know they lost several tanks in Syria over the last few years, but for the life of me right now I can't remember what tanks exactly.
I remember around 10 Leo-2A4s from the 2017 operation, plus some extras from the battles with the Kurds. M series losses were fewer in total, but they are used way less than the Leos as they are basically tin cans in an environment where Kornets and TOW-2s fly around...

Imp August 27th, 2020 06:03 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll (Post 848350)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 848348)
I would have said Greece vs Turkey has more equal parity tanks than most nations across the years.
Later on if you go all Leo2A6HEL as Greece an advantage for a while - better to play as Turkey probably.
AI is not likely to buy all LeoHEL though Greece has around 1000 Leo 1's & 350 Leo2's just under half are HEL variety so less than 10% are LeoHEL
Turkey used to have a similar number of Leo2's so they may well meet in practice, no idea if numbers changed once M60T came online.

Me playing as Turkey...yeah somehow I don't see that happening any time soon.

I don't have that many Leo2Hel and they barely got to play much in the current battle, at least against armor. They haven't really affected this battle that much. I would say if I had zero of them in this battle and instead had other tanks, I would still have more or less the same result here. Turkey never had Leo 2 of the Hel level. Up to 2A4 IIRC. I know they lost several tanks in Syria over the last few years, but for the life of me right now I can't remember what tanks exactly.
Was not commenting on your game & saying you had to many just pointing out Aeraaa's comment was a bit odd tanks are more easily balanced than most unless you go all HEL. Good nations to play as you never know quite what you are facing.

Wdll August 27th, 2020 06:36 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 848352)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll (Post 848350)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 848348)
I would have said Greece vs Turkey has more equal parity tanks than most nations across the years.
Later on if you go all Leo2A6HEL as Greece an advantage for a while - better to play as Turkey probably.
AI is not likely to buy all LeoHEL though Greece has around 1000 Leo 1's & 350 Leo2's just under half are HEL variety so less than 10% are LeoHEL
Turkey used to have a similar number of Leo2's so they may well meet in practice, no idea if numbers changed once M60T came online.

Me playing as Turkey...yeah somehow I don't see that happening any time soon.

I don't have that many Leo2Hel and they barely got to play much in the current battle, at least against armor. They haven't really affected this battle that much. I would say if I had zero of them in this battle and instead had other tanks, I would still have more or less the same result here. Turkey never had Leo 2 of the Hel level. Up to 2A4 IIRC. I know they lost several tanks in Syria over the last few years, but for the life of me right now I can't remember what tanks exactly.
Was not commenting on your game & saying you had to many just pointing out Aeraaa's comment was a bit odd tanks are more easily balanced than most unless you go all HEL. Good nations to play as you never know quite what you are facing.
That's ok. I didn't take it as unnecessary criticism anyway. Just game input. What I want in my videos. :)

I agree there is a nice balance between them for a game. OK, I think I am going to start recording the next episode now. It's approaching 2am and I am tired, so how bad could I possibly play?

Aeraaa August 27th, 2020 06:43 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 848352)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll (Post 848350)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 848348)
I would have said Greece vs Turkey has more equal parity tanks than most nations across the years.
Later on if you go all Leo2A6HEL as Greece an advantage for a while - better to play as Turkey probably.
AI is not likely to buy all LeoHEL though Greece has around 1000 Leo 1's & 350 Leo2's just under half are HEL variety so less than 10% are LeoHEL
Turkey used to have a similar number of Leo2's so they may well meet in practice, no idea if numbers changed once M60T came online.

Me playing as Turkey...yeah somehow I don't see that happening any time soon.

I don't have that many Leo2Hel and they barely got to play much in the current battle, at least against armor. They haven't really affected this battle that much. I would say if I had zero of them in this battle and instead had other tanks, I would still have more or less the same result here. Turkey never had Leo 2 of the Hel level. Up to 2A4 IIRC. I know they lost several tanks in Syria over the last few years, but for the life of me right now I can't remember what tanks exactly.
Was not commenting on your game & saying you had to many just pointing out Aeraaa's comment was a bit odd tanks are more easily balanced than most unless you go all HEL. Good nations to play as you never know quite what you are facing.
Probably wasn't clear from my post, but I mean that the Turkish AI has a tendency to buy cheap armor, with the occasional M60T platoon thrown in. I never faced Leo-2A4s for example*. Thus, all tanks can be knocked out by 105mm tanks (even the nearly obsolete M48A5s), while if you field Leo-2A4s or better (A6), you are basically safe from tank fire.

Realistically speaking, this is inaccurate. The Turkish 1st Army in Eastern Thrace is Leo centric, with infantry brigades generally having Leo-1 variants and the armored brigades having Leo-2s. M series were popular in the East, at least until experience in Syria forced the Turks to deploy Leo-2A4s there as well.

In addition to the cheap armor, the AI also tends to but lots of ATGM teams that are really hard to spot and pack a punch. These are IMHO the real danger and that's why artillery is always important when playing as Greece.

*Unless this has changed in the recent patch, as I haven't played a Greek-Turkish skirmish for quite some time.

Wdll August 27th, 2020 08:04 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa (Post 848354)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 848352)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll (Post 848350)


Me playing as Turkey...yeah somehow I don't see that happening any time soon.

I don't have that many Leo2Hel and they barely got to play much in the current battle, at least against armor. They haven't really affected this battle that much. I would say if I had zero of them in this battle and instead had other tanks, I would still have more or less the same result here. Turkey never had Leo 2 of the Hel level. Up to 2A4 IIRC. I know they lost several tanks in Syria over the last few years, but for the life of me right now I can't remember what tanks exactly.
Was not commenting on your game & saying you had to many just pointing out Aeraaa's comment was a bit odd tanks are more easily balanced than most unless you go all HEL. Good nations to play as you never know quite what you are facing.
Probably wasn't clear from my post, but I mean that the Turkish AI has a tendency to buy cheap armor, with the occasional M60T platoon thrown in. I never faced Leo-2A4s for example*. Thus, all tanks can be knocked out by 105mm tanks (even the nearly obsolete M48A5s), while if you field Leo-2A4s or better (A6), you are basically safe from tank fire.

Realistically speaking, this is inaccurate. The Turkish 1st Army in Eastern Thrace is Leo centric, with infantry brigades generally having Leo-1 variants and the armored brigades having Leo-2s. M series were popular in the East, at least until experience in Syria forced the Turks to deploy Leo-2A4s there as well.

In addition to the cheap armor, the AI also tends to but lots of ATGM teams that are really hard to spot and pack a punch. These are IMHO the real danger and that's why artillery is always important when playing as Greece.

*Unless this has changed in the recent patch, as I haven't played a Greek-Turkish skirmish for quite some time.
I haven't played vs Turkey in a number of years so I have to admit I just don't remember what forces they used to buy. In the current battle, I just finished recording up to turn 30, the video will be up tomorrow or the day after as Youtube takes 12+ hours to render it to 1440p. So far I have not encountered any Leo2, and I doubt I will in the remaining turns (up to turn 39).

Wdll August 29th, 2020 06:36 AM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
In the second day of Processing. Great job Youtube.

Wdll August 29th, 2020 04:32 PM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
Still nothing, so before we get into the third day, I decided to publish this next part.
It only allows 1080p, not the native 1440p it was recorded.
I don't know if it will ever finish the "rendering HD" bs, but better than nothing I guess.
Interesting enough, I did a test. The video you see here is rendered at 80mbps while it was originally recorded at about 20. I also rendered the same one at 20mbps which youtube finished with its "hd rendering" but also did not allow it to be played at 1440p. This looks way better so I am going to publish this one.

As to what is going on, we are winning. :)


https://youtu.be/oM7gyuTeoT0

Wdll August 31st, 2020 11:48 AM
Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 
It appears that the videos can now be played at 1440p as they should. Better late than never, I think.


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