Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

I decided to start a new generated campaign, June 2020 to June 2021. Ten battles, Turkey has a 30% bonus points advantage.
Mines OFF. Everything else default. Well...battlefx also off.

First part is purchasing and deployment of units, plus first turn of the first battle.

I did a couple of mistakes (rusty and all), but so be it.

The video quality is much better than my old series I did on this game (USSR vs NATO), but still not perfect. I plan on doing some more tests to see if I can improve the second etc part.

Better watched fullscreen at 1440p (native resolution)

https://youtu.be/t0XqjOlhCH0

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Second part is up.
It's going to take a few days before there is a third part (by the end of the week), but this part is much longer than the first one.
First contact and all that goes with it.
I also switched on Fast Artillery cause else I would have to either edit out all the bombardment or have very long time where all you do is watch one artillery piece at a time slowly shooting. Which I love, but I doubt any one else does too. :)

https://youtu.be/kIwIFeEgs6s

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

The fight continues, first losses for Greece. So far I am not THAT worried for this battle, though it is still too soon to call it a victory.

Funny story, one of my F4 shot a Maverick at a target from like 200m or so away. Never seen that before.

Also,I wish Youtube wouldn't be so asses about it, but I have to record at 1440p as else the video encoder is poor and the end result for a game which needs details (text and overall graphics) is just not usable. If Youtube used the same for all HD resolutions would be a different thing, but for the time being I have to if I want the videos to be viewable. Unfortunately that means it is not exactly comfortable for anyone with a small screen, but otherwise it wouldn't be for anyone.

Having said that, this video reached 35GB which took like an hour to upload so I might have to go under an hour of duration for each one from now on.

https://youtu.be/KqzeuQki9ms

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Fourth part is up.
The Turkish forces are moving in. I inflict heavy casualties on them. Unfortunately I also lose some men and equipment.


https://youtu.be/1I-Bt2kdMTQ

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

The battle is going ok.
I love planes.

https://youtu.be/8biX33rmSFo

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Things are definitely heating up.
Fun fact, Turkey has kornet ATGMs.


https://youtu.be/UFWEzXns5oI

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Good recommendation. If you are streaming, switch off the hex grid off, it scares new or at first interested players away.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

I see your point, but if new players are put off of because of the hex grid then maybe they should be off to trying instead some real time 'wargame' filled with majestic eye candy. :laugh:

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Well, no, simply hex grid in SP games is goddamn awful, it is much darker rough compared to other games, thus using it all the time breaks graphics and general understanding of a situation to new possible players.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Thank you for your input. I do stream games on twitch (trusteft), but not this game.

I use hexes to measure distance and try to not make more stupid mistakes than I should. I like hexes.
While I understand there are people who don't like them, that doesn't change that I probably not going to switch them off for this game.

It would be one thing if for example I had a huge channel, or even a medium size one, and many people wanted hex grid off, but let's face it, I have a tiny channel and barely a handful of people watch my videos. I am glad I have even them, but for this size of channel, I am not going to play a game in a way which causes me trouble. I am not making any money out of it, the least I can do is enjoy the ride.

Still, again thank you for your input. I am not saying I will never do it, but I probably won't. Or perhaps in a future episode I might just for the hell of it.

OK, not the next episode (which has already been recorded), but the episode after that, I will try it.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Most wargames use hex-based maps. The few that don't are WH40K and Micro-Armor. The rest to include ASL all use hex-based maps and from experience, I would rather use hex-based maps and battlefields vs not. Mainly because it cuts down on the cheating for range and movement.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Next part is up.
At this point I am no longer worried.

https://youtu.be/PD29flYJVVo

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Part 8 is up.
Considering attacking.

https://youtu.be/SlXy0OqS0fw

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Part 9 is up.

Going on the offensive.

https://youtu.be/F57aUVkOy7c

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Part 10.
It feels mostly like an extermination at this point.
Let's hope it continues till the end.
https://youtu.be/DD6cF1okwJ8

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Part 11 is up.
I don't think I like top attack ATGMs.
In fact, I am pretty sure I don't.

https://youtu.be/1n79DuY5VVE

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

No one the reciving end of those ATGMs like them.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Yeah, kinda weird. :D

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Yeah, all Greece vs. Turkey battles I've played were more or less the same motif: Turkish tanks obliterated early on and then Greek armor takes sporadic losses from Milan IIIs.

The counter to this is to try to always have your armor covered behind buildings, ridges or trees (although the latter has to be in deep forestm, modern ATGMs can fire through non-dense tree patches), use cheaper vehicles to draw fire and shell the ATGMs into oblivion. And use infantry to advance forward with tanks only poping out to fire some shots then going back into cover.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

I would have said Greece vs Turkey has more equal parity tanks than most nations across the years.
Later on if you go all Leo2A6HEL as Greece an advantage for a while - better to play as Turkey probably.
AI is not likely to buy all LeoHEL though Greece has around 1000 Leo 1's & 350 Leo2's just under half are HEL variety so less than 10% are LeoHEL
Turkey used to have a similar number of Leo2's so they may well meet in practice, no idea if numbers changed once M60T came online.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

My only issue is time limit and score. To have a good victory you need to attack. Attack means losses. :mad:

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Me playing as Turkey...yeah somehow I don't see that happening any time soon.

I don't have that many Leo2Hel and they barely got to play much in the current battle, at least against armor. They haven't really affected this battle that much. I would say if I had zero of them in this battle and instead had other tanks, I would still have more or less the same result here. Turkey never had Leo 2 of the Hel level. Up to 2A4 IIRC. I know they lost several tanks in Syria over the last few years, but for the life of me right now I can't remember what tanks exactly.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

I remember around 10 Leo-2A4s from the 2017 operation, plus some extras from the battles with the Kurds. M series losses were fewer in total, but they are used way less than the Leos as they are basically tin cans in an environment where Kornets and TOW-2s fly around...

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Was not commenting on your game & saying you had to many just pointing out Aeraaa's comment was a bit odd tanks are more easily balanced than most unless you go all HEL. Good nations to play as you never know quite what you are facing.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

That's ok. I didn't take it as unnecessary criticism anyway. Just game input. What I want in my videos. :)

I agree there is a nice balance between them for a game. OK, I think I am going to start recording the next episode now. It's approaching 2am and I am tired, so how bad could I possibly play?

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Probably wasn't clear from my post, but I mean that the Turkish AI has a tendency to buy cheap armor, with the occasional M60T platoon thrown in. I never faced Leo-2A4s for example*. Thus, all tanks can be knocked out by 105mm tanks (even the nearly obsolete M48A5s), while if you field Leo-2A4s or better (A6), you are basically safe from tank fire.

Realistically speaking, this is inaccurate. The Turkish 1st Army in Eastern Thrace is Leo centric, with infantry brigades generally having Leo-1 variants and the armored brigades having Leo-2s. M series were popular in the East, at least until experience in Syria forced the Turks to deploy Leo-2A4s there as well.

In addition to the cheap armor, the AI also tends to but lots of ATGM teams that are really hard to spot and pack a punch. These are IMHO the real danger and that's why artillery is always important when playing as Greece.

*Unless this has changed in the recent patch, as I haven't played a Greek-Turkish skirmish for quite some time.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

I haven't played vs Turkey in a number of years so I have to admit I just don't remember what forces they used to buy. In the current battle, I just finished recording up to turn 30, the video will be up tomorrow or the day after as Youtube takes 12+ hours to render it to 1440p. So far I have not encountered any Leo2, and I doubt I will in the remaining turns (up to turn 39).

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

In the second day of Processing. Great job Youtube.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Still nothing, so before we get into the third day, I decided to publish this next part.
It only allows 1080p, not the native 1440p it was recorded.
I don't know if it will ever finish the "rendering HD" bs, but better than nothing I guess.
Interesting enough, I did a test. The video you see here is rendered at 80mbps while it was originally recorded at about 20. I also rendered the same one at 20mbps which youtube finished with its "hd rendering" but also did not allow it to be played at 1440p. This looks way better so I am going to publish this one.

As to what is going on, we are winning. :)


https://youtu.be/oM7gyuTeoT0

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

It appears that the videos can now be played at 1440p as they should. Better late than never, I think.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

ok, last part (part 13) of the first battle of the campaign is now up and running.
The result was stunning to me. I don't remember if I ever won with such a huge difference against an AI or human opponent.
Not complaining.
The second battle is going to be a delay battle, I have already recorded the first part of that, but I haven't decided yet if I am going to upload them or not. All things considered I am not disappointed with the (views) result. A tiny channel and a less than Fortnite level of "quality", can do that*, but it's always nice when people watch your videos and occasionally comment. After all I am (unfortunately) not doing this for money. (thanks Youtube for removing my monetization).

OK, as I said the next battle is going to be a delay mission. I don't even remember the last time I played one. I do hope Turkey will use more of their Leo2 tanks. I want to see them blow up. (I hope).

Oh yeah, here is the link to anyone interested in.

https://youtu.be/AlaBykV9l2Y



*to clarify, not a fan of Fortnite or any other multiplayer only game which has the spotlight right now, I was making fun of it.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

I tried a few buys of the Turks to see if Leo2 came up much - and they do not, in fact they are rocking horse poo.

A couple of later upgraded M60 are in the OOB waaay down the list far beneath the leo2 MBT and have the same radio code (90, standard) - so those M60s will be the "bread and butter" buy in the MBT formations since the pick list starts with the template tank and works to the end, making choices as it goes along. It rarely loops round on reaching the end to look at slots before the template.

If you would like to see more leo2 MBT
- change unit #38 radio code to 92 (X2, very common)
- change the radio code for units #616, 617 to 91 (X1, rare)

Now buy a few AI picks of the Turks with a decent amount of points and the Leo2 will show up much more than the rocking horse dung they were before.

Test buy of the AI purchase is as usual:
- set up Turkey P1 V greece P2 in 2020 in the game option menu
- Input test points in the preference screen (say 30000 points)

- Set up test battle with ciomputer buy
- On the deplynent screen, see what the AI purchased for you
- exit
Until a few times to see different AI buys

Also not - You will not see Unit #39 Leopard 2T or #614 Altay as these are class 135 MBT not class 59 MBT and those are only available in a prototype tanks formation.

And if youj never want the AI to buy those last 2 M60 conversions, make the radio code 93 (Human only buy)...

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

First of all thank you.
Now, as I have never before used the editor before, a couple of questions.
I changed the numbers for the units and indeed the AI seems to buy Leo2 now. That's good. With 25000 points, it appears to be buying anything from about half a dozen to a bit over. (tested it 3 times)
Question 1, is it going to affect at all how the AI buys tanks for dates which do not have the Leo2?
Question 2, Although I have no plans on playing PBEM any time soon, I presume this is going to affect said games, or only if one of the players pick Turkey?
Question 3, is this something which will be amended in any way in the next patch? Just curious.
Question 4, if I load the last turn of the first battle and proceed from there, will the AI for the next battle use this changed OOB and expect Turkey to buy Leo2? Or do I have to start a new campaign for that to take effect?

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

1) No - the other choice is M60s of some flavour
2) If playing PBEM, both sides need the same OOB as there has been a change made. Best to use your backup copy of the OOB in this case - your opponent is human and will buy as he pleases.
3) Maybe
4) AI will take notice the next time it buys its force for a new battle

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Thank you.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Now done in the master OOB and will be in the next update

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Question.
As I am uploading the 20GB next part, the first of the second battle, what shall I name it? The video will be up in 5 min, but won't finish rendering till tomorrow at the earliest.
So far I was going with "title title p13 b1" where p13 means part 13 and b1 means battle 1.
I was planning going with "title title p14 b2", but I am having second thoughts. Perhaps people will have an easier time with "title title p1 b2".
So, since you are people, any input on that?

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Title Bx Px - Title Battle number Part number
this makes most sense to me and makes it much easier to search for and find right order

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Thank you, yeah I already decided to do that as it would be easier as you said.

It annoys me a bit as I will start the part no from 1 again, but as I said I want what is better for the viewers.

Thanks again.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

First part of Second Battle is now live.
Weird, after 2 days youtube shows me HD is still processing, but it appears to be running fine to me at 1440p (native).

Anyway, we start not in the best of ways as there are losses from turn 0.

https://youtu.be/lsvIVC8X3Ws

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Second part of the second battle is now live.

https://youtu.be/44wYbdRJfsA

Lots of losses early on for both sides. I don't like it.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

3rd part of the second battle is now live.
More losses for both sides. This isn't going great for me.
More annoying I can't shoot down any planes. If only my air defenses fired at the enemy even once. Perhaps next part.

https://youtu.be/YMqCEAk-5_o

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Getting hurt. What annoys me the most is that it took this long for my air defense to start firing at the enemy. Better late than never I guess.


Part 4
https://youtu.be/Yq9f-p-Eov0



is up.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Getting the upper hand. Pretty sure.

Also, nice to see the air defenses actually firing at the enemy units for once.

Battle 2, Part 5.

https://youtu.be/rU7OaotIeAc

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Next part is up.
I don't think we're going to have any problem winning this battle any more.

Battle 2, Part 6.
https://youtu.be/jg-9VYTdmLU

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

I think we will be fine.
https://youtu.be/juSNDPLmTr4

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

It looks like the Turks have left some nasty surprises for me.
https://youtu.be/4l2GfCKYVTw

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

:up: Wow, I just came across this old post by accident - I was totally unaware of the signifigance of the second digit in the radio codes - this is absolutely crucial info for all OOB modding!

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Yep.........and it's not just the 0 or 1 or 2 that can affect the picks, the location in the OOB list also has an effect albeit in a more limited way. Sometimes we have had to make things rare when they are further down the list just to keep those from being over picked by the AI even though they might not be "rare" in reality

It cannot be 100% predicted. You have to let the AI pick over and over to see if a pattern emerges then decide if it's worth changing and "tank heavy" or not changes the way the picks are made

It's the randoms that are built into the code to keep things from repeating and those random factors are deliberately everywhere and the pick list is one.

Re: Greece vs Turkey 2020-2021
 

Also very useful to "weigh" the AIs election of say squads.

In the Vietnam era there's not much point in having squad AT weapons near as abundant as they'd be you were in Central Europe.