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-   -   MBT's (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45260)

DRG April 19th, 2022 04:49 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 852316)
Poland has started shipping 100 T-72M1 UNIT 401/T-72M1R UNIT 032 (In the OOB as T-72M2/This UNIT is correct for the T-72M1R by date and capabilities. See Ref. 2 below. Recommend name changed as noted for the T-72M2.) They are also getting the BWP-1 UNIT 065 (BMP-1) .

Polish UNIT #'s supplied to expedite search and transfer to Ukraine OOB unchanged if desired. [Bhttps://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo...n_display.html [/b]

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Pat. You really need to double check before pressing " post "
Polish unit 401 is a BA-64.... Unit 402 is the T-72M1. Unit 32 is correct for the T-72M2 but neither is as capable as ones in the Ukrainian OOB now so there is little point in adding them and the time for new additions is past

So take a break

DRG April 19th, 2022 04:56 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zovs66 (Post 852313)
A coffin for three brothers.

More like "A crematorium for three brothers"

zovs66 April 19th, 2022 05:27 AM

Re: MBT's
 
That is for sure

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 19th, 2022 12:18 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Don,
THANK YOU!! FINALLY.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG April 19th, 2022 12:38 PM

Re: MBT's
 
I had to make a correction to another OOB so the entire set had to be recalced and the installer rebuilt so I put them is anyway

BUT NO MORE PLEASE

There has to be a line. This is it

DRG April 19th, 2022 05:26 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 852316)
Poland has started shipping 100 [b]T-72M1 UNIT 401/T-72M1R UNIT 032 (In the OOB as T-72M2/This UNIT is correct for the T-72M1R by date and capabilities.

*Maybe* ( Maybe ) they are sending M1Rs but this article paints a whole different picture with a photo

https://vpk.name/en/594666_poland-de...o-ukraine.html

Quote:

The T-72M tanks supplied to Ukraine are a simplified modification of 1979, they lack dynamic armor, modern fire control systems, multi-channel sights. These tanks were located at a storage base in Lublin, the Polish military planned to upgrade them to the RT-91 level, but then there were no funds

It is unclear what condition the tanks are in now, but it can be confidently stated that Kiev does not have time for major repairs and modernization of these tanks, and there is nowhere to work, Russia has struck all factories capable of repairing armored vehicles.
https://vpk.name/file/img/polsha-pos...49776501.t.jpg


That is about as far away as you can get from a T-72M1R. It's just a basic 25 year old T-72 on the back of that flatbed. About the only thing it's good for now if there are actual modern tanks around is target practice.... or used as basic training tanks

EITHER story could be wartime BS..........Maybe they are saying they are sending old junk and are actually sending updated one.... maybe not

Either way, the truth might not be ever known but what's in that photo is exactly what they say it is...... old crap dug out of storage with limited utility on a 2022 battlefield

OTOH............. note the source..........
Quote:

topwar.ru

Further......... I kept digging and that photo shows up in a post on Reddit 5 YEARS AGO so that was not something taken recently so if anyone can come up with concrete information ASAP I would appreciate it


FURTHER ( NOT having "fun" here.........)
Rechecked Pats links and the report says


Quote:

100 T-72 main battle tanks including T-72M1 and T-72M1R
So some of both..... THAT I can work with

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 20th, 2022 05:07 AM

Re: MBT's
 
I'm going to start this by saying, we're all damned tired right now pressing these equipment issues well past the point where we normally would be enjoying the patch at least a month ago.

A war comes along and the "flood gates" opened up and the beautiful city of PATCH became underwater.

I'm going to unwrap this by first saying an error on my part in Post 1330 with a wrong UNIT# assigned for the T-72M1 as 401 VICE 402 started the ball rolling


The Dr. is in...

When mistakes like this happens, as you try to unravel it becomes a major distraction that affects one's perception on what follows.

The Dr is out. :p

I've corrected Post 1330 and reposted it below. The T-72M1 is corrected to UNIT 401. Now what was missed as discussed above was what I questioned following my error which unlike the original post, I will just highlight that part which I feel will demonstrate my original intent.

I had my doubts (T-72M), and I should've more forcefully expressed them. That's on me and Don knows this was the exception to what I normally would've done. I'm just really "any word you want" tired right now.

Let's get to it. I've "dug deeper" and found more.

"Poland has started shipping 100 T-72M1 UNIT 402/T-72M1R UNIT 032 (In the OOB as T-72M2/This UNIT is correct for the T-72M1R by date and capabilities. See Ref. 2 below. Recommend name changed as noted for the T-72M2. ) They are also getting the BWP-1 UNIT 065 (BMP-1)"

Something about the T-72M2 was familiar to me (I believe it goes back to my last submission that had a lot of T-72 related work done.) that made me think it being in the Polish OOB was wrong.

But upon reviewing UNIT 032 felt it was the right tank for the T-72M1R in capabilities and let's just rename it and be done to T-72M1R..

It is impossible for Poland to have the T-72M2.

That's because the T-72M2 started life as a joint Czech/Slovakia T-72M1 modernization program called the T-72M2.

The rest I'll let you read from my Ref. 1 (Too much for me to type right now.) ...
"In the early 1990s after the dissolution of the Czechoslovakia, various upgrade programs were developed both in Czech Republic and Slovakia to keep their fleets of T-72 MBTs operational and combat capable. First prototype of the T-72M2 Moderna was revealed in 1993. Development of this tank is completed . For a number of years this upgrade was actively proposed for Slovak Army as well as export customers. However, it received no production orders. Slovakia never ordered this tank due to funding problems. Only few prototypes were built for trials and evaluation."
https://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72m2_moderna.htm
https://www.armedconflicts.com/SVK-T...Moderna-t29016

And look to see who REALLY had one...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...mp-1_ifvs.html


The WASHOUT on T-72M2.
1. Didn't look and don't care about the BULGARIAN T-72M at this moment it would need further research to determine the extent of the modernization they made to their "T-72m2.

2. NOT in the CZECH OOB and that's good.

3. SLOVAKIA/DELETE/T-72M2 MODERNA/UNIT 271/PROTOTYPE ONLY/DELETE//

Now to the Polish T-72M1R ...

The modernization program for the T-72M1 to the T-72M1R was originally approved in 2011. However, the money got redirected to the T-91.

The T-72M1R modernization program was restarted in 2019 by BUMAR-ŁABĘDY S.A. facility. It should be apparent this is an ongoing modernization and in lieu of Poland getting the M1A2P, this means Poland has given the Ukraine newly modified T-72 tanks, the T-72M1R..

The refs, use the term "some of the upgrades are..."well that's all I needed the first time to simply rename the Polish never had it T-72M2 to the T-72M1R.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo...n_display.html
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ases-2545.html
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/20...ities-in-2022/
https://www.novinite.com/articles/21...+New+Sanctions


I hopefully have cleaned this up, ratified the situation and caused additional work (Which was not my intention :D
.) concerning Slovakia.

The following is due to the lack of sleep and my delusional state so, you know what's coming...

Now my :rant: is over and I better :yield: before Don gets :tough: with me. :D

I see it's 0500 back up in "5", hopefully CINCLANTHOME will let me have another "30"!! ;) :) :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG April 20th, 2022 07:41 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Yeah Pat I "get" the "tired" part. My average in the past month is around 6:15 and it's almost always in two parts with a 2-3 hour gap in the middle and I am getting too old for this $hit

That said......"The T-72M1 is corrected to UNIT 401"..... I ASSUME that is unit 401 in the Polish OOB..... the problem is as I noted Polish unit 401 is a BA-64.... Unit 402 is the T-72M1

But no worries I have it figured out now. They are getting both the M1 and the M1R but I have taken the "liberty" of giving them Ukrainian ammo in the game. That may or may not be the relality but it now is what it is and with that NO MORE CHANGES OR ADDITIONS WILL BE MADE THIS YEAR.

At some point we have to test a version that is not in a constant state of change because with every change comes the chance of introducing a "Gotcha!" into it like copying a unit and forgetting that the Polish tanks use UC 13 whereas the Ukrainian ones use UC59 ( but that was caught PDQ ) and that the secondary weapons for one OOB do not match one for one with the other ( but that was caught PDQ as well )

Right now the release is tentatively sometime next week.

Karagin April 20th, 2022 11:58 AM

Re: MBT's
 
So the US and NATO should be sending them state of the art tanks?

The idea is to keep Russia stuck in a quagmire, not cause them to gain access to new technology easier than their normal ways.

The idea alone that NATO countries are even giving them anything is a major shift from their stands 8 years ago. Plus it makes sense, to get rid of the crap you have in storage, and thus you no longer have to worry about it.

Anything else lends to profiting by the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) and their greedy little eyes and mouths are already salivating since we have depleted the ready stock of Javelins and other ATGMs and thus need to buy more to replace things...

Also, Ukraine is in no position to be crying about the aid, they are the beggars in this scenario, not the choosers.

If the equipment is used correctly with good tactics and such, then operationally it should give them something to throw the Russians back, something we haven't seen much of from them.

DRG April 20th, 2022 12:18 PM

Re: MBT's
 
What equipment they actually get and if or how it gets used may or may not ever be clear but what is clear is that the third decade of the 21st century has been and will continue to be a serious PITA worldwide long into the unforeseeable future and what might happen tomorrow, next week or next month is anyone's guess but it looks like it's going to be a bumpy ride


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