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-   -   MBT's (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45260)

Aeraaa June 4th, 2022 12:41 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Something that bothers me in this article: TOMA ( which should be capital letters since it is an abbreviation: Tethorakismeno Oxima MAkhis) literally means Armored Battle Vehicle and it basically means IFV. It is NOT how any individual vehicle is called, it's just a type designation.

webego June 5th, 2022 04:38 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Good analysis of the possible use of T-62 tanks in Ukraine.
https://topwar.ru/197041-t-62-potenc...-8080-BAL-6222

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 5th, 2022 12:55 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Well, the Ukraine won't have to worry about the LEOPARD 1A5 from Germany (Though the following will probably make it easier politically for them to send them now.) because they got an upgrade.

Spain retired their LEOPARD 2A4 tanks at least 10 years ago
and since I don't feel like typing a whole lot right now, I'll quote the source...
"Spain is also ready to deliver 40 Leopard 2A4 tanks that have been stored for a decade in a logistics base of the Spanish army. At the same time, Spain will train the Ukraine soldiers to operate these tanks. The training will be conducted by Spanish soldiers deployed in Latvia, where the Spanish Army has a contingent of 500 soldiers with six Leopard 2E tanks, within the framework of NATO's Enhanced Advanced Presence (EFP) operation."

Spain has 108 of these tanks in storage and they are maintained ready for combat as part of their strategic reserve. This could represent a potential for a second shipment I would guess in the range of 20-40 tanks at a later date, depending on their perceived need of their future defensive needs.

This not out there but is my analysis of the situation as I have further information in my files concerning Spain and its armor.

The tanks are a "DONE DEAL" the "also" refers to the fact that Germany has yet to approve the STOP here...
"The shipment of the Aspide missile systems, produced by the European missile company MBDA, is pending completion of the negotiations through a cell in Germany that is in charge to coordinate the military aid to Ukraine. The Aspide is no longer in service with the Spanish army and it was replaced by a more modern air defense system."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...e_systems.html

SO, GERMANY HAS APPROVED THE TANK TRANSFER/OPENS THE DOOR FOR POSSIBLE GERMAN LEOPARD 1A5 TRANSFER/ASPIDE MEDIUM RANGE (20km+/AND STILL EFFECTIVE) SAM PENDING GERMAN APPROVAL/I EXPECT THE LEOPARD 2A4 TO BE IN SERVICE BY SEP/OCT AT LATEST/BUT THE UKRAINIANS HAVE CAUGHT ON HOW TO USE THESE ADVANCED SYSTEMS ALOT SOONER THEN I THINK MOST THOUGHT THEY COULD


And there you have it.

Regards
Pat
:capt:

DRG June 5th, 2022 02:54 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Thanks Pat. Needless to say " keep me posted"

Re" THE UKRAINIANS HAVE CAUGHT ON HOW TO USE THESE ADVANCED SYSTEMS ALOT SOONER THEN I THINK MOST THOUGHT THEY COULD"

Yeah no doubt quite a BIT of " surprise " for that nation on Ukraine's eastern border as well........

These " advanced systems" for the most part are a decade or two old tech and Ukraine is hardly a technological backwater with no experience in high tech military equipment.... the HIGHLY effective use of drones is proof of that.......and they have been engaged in low and high-intensity combat for 8 years and prior to 2014, Ukraine was the world's 4th largest arms exporter.

When you underestimate your opponent, wars that were supposed to be over in a week or two drag on for months with no end in sight

webego June 5th, 2022 04:28 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Don, just wondering, did any of the official sources of the President of Russia announce a quick military operation?

webego June 5th, 2022 04:35 PM

Re: MBT's
 
My opinion. Even if the plans included a quick military operation, the actions of the enemy can change it - this is a fact. Geopolitics will take over. Russia will take over.

DRG June 5th, 2022 06:53 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Regardless of any announcement of a "quick military operation" all the signs that this was thought to be over quick were apparent from the start

but.....

there was NO legitimate excuse at all for the invasion.

And I DO NOT care what Russians believe or were told.


IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU ??

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 5th, 2022 11:30 PM

Re: MBT's
 
I found the following ONLY because of the articles title which should be obvious to everyone I've been tracking to the best of my ability for some time well before there was a war this is what I've done for a longtime now.

What caught my attention immediately was what's in para 1.
What we thought. Which has been well publicized

This is a nice short and to the point overview article of the war and its uncertain future.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...b691c68f202b52

This is no time nor the place for "Waving the Flag" lest we forget people are dying while we're playing a game.

Our time has come and gone as are those whom we took our orders (Or gave to.) as are the leaders who've made the decisions to carry out what's good for our "National Interests".

It's hard I know as I'm trying NOT to express my personal views out here and it's difficult at times NOT to do so. I GET IT.

Some people probably don't realize how many times and how close we came to the "ultimate battle" during the Cold War there's a (was) Russian Colonel who was in Moscow in 1983 when his superiors thought they were incoming missiles. He refused to launch based I what he thought was really going on.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24280831

Or the Russian submarine (B-19) Captain who refused to do the same in the games we played with them and they with us and reminds me of the movie "The Bedford Incident" except that it had a different ending.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ed-nuclear-war

We watched what it was like to die a slow death on a submarine when the KURSK sank every day in our OPCON until the end. I cannot express the anger we all felt or the other emotions we had leading up to the needless death of that crew because of national pride when the handful of countries that have DSRV's or similar system could've been on site within 24hrs.
Like 9/11 (We were in the OPCON for that as well.) we'll always remember the KURSK.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE


We have newer systems now, but the procedures are very similar to the video. These were still in service when I was in and would see the next version before I retired.

In case the KURSK gets a reaction possibly from some front, in my "shadow box" I have a set of my Submarine "Dolphins", an RN Officers Submarine "Dolphins" below and left of mine and finally in the same position to the right a Soviet Commanding Officers "Dolphins" because of what I experienced in our shared "environment" we respected them for their PROFESSIONALISM.

I have no time for this, the matter will get settled without our help.

My only concern at the moment is to ensure that CINCLANTHOME has a wonderful Birthday tomorrow as we spend the day together as we see the new "DOWNTON ABBEY" movie- OH LUCKY ME!?!
;)

Before I forget one of the things, I got her was the ANCESTRY 6-MONTH "Go crazy as our files are fully open to you!" in a day she so far has traced her dad's family back to 1676 in Edinburgh, Scotland!

ANDY she could be related to you!!
:D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 6th, 2022 08:17 PM

Re: MBT's
 
Looks like the T-62 has arrived in the Ukrainian theatre of operations.

I would also bring your attention to the video REF. 2. showing a Russian T-72B3 hitting a couple of mines. The 2nd would disable it and the "coup de grâce" was delivered by a precision artillery round probably lased by the drone filming the tank. Don't if it was the Ukrainian precision one (Which has already been shown to be effective.) or our EXCALIBUR.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=8bddaeb12be5
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE


Funny I only saw one guy survive that!?!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG June 7th, 2022 03:04 AM

Re: MBT's
 
Quote:

Some of the T-62 tanks Russia pulled from mothballs and sent to Ukraine have been spotted on the battlefield sporting improvised armor 'cages' on top of their turrets. This suggests that Russian forces are well aware of how vulnerable these ancient armored vehicles are to Ukrainian anti-tank weapons.

The T-62 medium tanks, reportedly spotted in the southern Kherson region, are fitted with what appears to be raised slat or cage armor, designed to mitigate top-attack profiles used by many anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), like U.S.-supplied Javelins, and the effects of drones dropping munitions on top of the vehicle.

These tanks also sport some sort of improvised shield or plate armor mounted vertically on the deck behind the turret. That plate also could be the tank’s engine hatch, raised to give the turret some protection from the rear.
...... and are not carrying fuel tanks on the back of the hull

Looking close at the photos it does seem to be the engine hatch raised though how much "protection" that would give is questionable

Quote:

The tanks appear to be wearing warehouse codes in white paint along the sides of their hulls, which begs the question of how much maintenance attention the vehicles received after being pulled from long-term storage and rushed to Eastern Ukraine.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...mor-in-ukraine

https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/202...=70&width=1920

re: T-72B3

The conversation he was having on his cell phone would be interesting....


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