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DRG May 11th, 2015 09:39 AM

Re: MBT's
THEORETICALLY there likely will be a 2016 patch but I'm learning not to make long range plans.( and feeling compelled to get a patch assembled "just in case" has so far not ended well for me this year)

MarkSheppard May 12th, 2015 07:06 PM

Re: MBT's
3 Attachment(s)
FASTBOAT; I checked my go-to forum for English Language Chinese Defense stuff: China Defense Forum:


They have a 74-page thread devoted to the ZTZ-99 family (ZTZ-99 is the official chinese name of the 'Type 99'); and they have your "Chinese TYPE 99AZ or KM with 155mm MG.jpg (2 of 2)" on Page 68 of it, with a posting date of 25 August 2014.

The only things about it that the community commented on was that the CITV-clone and laser rangefinder / millimetric radar rangefinder above the main gun were covered by canvas for security reasons.

There's no ZTZ-99AZ or ZTZ-99KM with a 155mm main gun; nope.

What there IS is a development program for a 140mm tank gun ---it's been referenced in chinese documents, and back in 2005/2006, images of a ZTZ-98 or ZTZ-99 (unsure as to which version) with a 140mm gun appeared on the internet.

It's been a while since I checked CDF; but here's the quick and dirty:

A few more images of the early ZTZ-99 prototypes (including one with ATGMs on the side of the turret) have appeared.

The PLA does field-uparmoring of vehicles -- in a CCTV documentary; they showed engineer troops attached to armor units adding Heavy ERA to their ZTZ-59Bs (Type 59 was redesignated).

More information have appeared on interior shots of ZTZ-99 allowing more accurate armor estimates; as well as better details of just what is in that long bustle.

Rumors of a bustle autoloader in development for the ZTZ-99 have been so far unfounded.

Production of ZTZ-99 continues; more units are being re-equipped with it and it's achieving maturity with the PLA Armored Corps; but lately the hot focus of AFV development seems to have shifted onto lighter units; such as that new mystery light tank.

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 13th, 2015 05:00 PM

Re: MBT's
Thanks saves me sometime! I'll still build on this though I've come to the same conclusion. I don't think these failed larger/up gunned MBT's are due to engineering failures as much as the role of armor and combat have changed since the Cold War where the enemy on ethier side had thousands of tanks at their disposal and they wouldn't be very practical in an urban enviroment. And yes that's one of the mods on my list to add the turret mounted ATGW to the type. Also on my list is one of the earlier types (89?) has been modernized to include the addition of a two tubed SAM system mounted on the turret. Plus the light 120mm MBT's that have been fielded since the beginning of this year. I'll be a very busy man this summer and as much time as I'm allowed SHOULD Andy and Don decide to proceed as per the post previous to yours. I personally miss the Sino-Defense site but for some unknown reason they dropped all their MBT data including the archive data though they still cover the aeronautical stuff.


MarkSheppard May 13th, 2015 08:04 PM

Re: MBT's
Over at Secret Projects Forum, STEALTHFLANKER did some math for us on the T-14 Armata:


I attempted to do some "educated guess" On Armata's weight using nominal ground pressure as basis. Based on some photos i managed to get some rough estimates on Armata's track parameters as follows :

Track Pitch :160 mm
Track Width : 550 mm
Roadwheel diameter :700 mm
Number of roadwheel axles :7
Length of track contact surface with ground :5.25 m

If the Armata have similar "mobility" as T-72A tank with NGP of 78 kN/Sqm it would weigh around 46000 Kg If mobility is similar as T-90S with NGP of 92kN It would weigh 54000 Kg.

MarkSheppard May 13th, 2015 08:55 PM

Re: MBT's
3 Attachment(s)

Plus the light 120mm MBT's that have been fielded since the beginning of this year.
You mean this (see attached)?

Speculation on what exactly it IS armed with is wavering between 125mm and 105mm.

It first showed up in 2011 on the boards, and even now; in Q2 2015; a lot is really unknown about it.

What really confuses things for China Watchers is the Chinese Military Industrial Complex's own indigenous development (on their own) of various vehicles for the export market.

For example, MBT-3000 (VT4) is basically an exportized ZTZ-99; and there are whole prototypes which get built to chase an export market; then die and go nowhere; like the old AAI RDF/LT light tank.

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 13th, 2015 11:54 PM

Re: MBT's
Looks like it, posted it awhile back in this forum. Military-Today had the first data I came across on this tank-be advised I'm not where I can get to my computer for a few days yet but, Army-Recognition and JANE's has confirmed this tank. The refs showed the tanks on rail cars being shipped West apparently, now who could be there? India, these tanks would be ideal for ops in the mountainous area along their respective borders due the condition of the road network there that can't currently support India's ARJUN tanks and barely their T-90S ones. But as I've just been reminded by you know who, I'm on vacation so I'll post what I've got when I get home, before I hear from someone else as well!?!
Now if only we could get our ball teams to find their winning ways again!?!

Good Night!


FASTBOAT TOUGH May 15th, 2015 07:50 PM

Re: MBT's
2 Attachment(s)
I have been asked why I track some of these items for as long as I do even after I submit something-the answer is simply boils down to patience the ARJUN and Indonesian LEOPARD issues come to mind as fairly recent issues. So about that T-14/ARMATA:

Attachment 13754


FASTBOAT TOUGH May 16th, 2015 12:17 AM

Re: MBT's
As reported, submitted and entered in the game a little follow up and closure of the books on this next...

Kind of goes allow with what I mentioned in my last post.


FASTBOAT TOUGH May 19th, 2015 05:32 AM

Re: MBT's
I owe this answer to Mark from a couple of posts ago concerning basically my work list for the PLA tanks for the next patch within the next couple of years.

TYPE 99: This concerns the addition of the ATGM.

My JANE's source is in the 404 cat. on this topic for now-sorry. Posted anyway in case it "clears up".

TYPE 98 (Vice 89 from my earlier response.): These tanks are just recently started mounting a tube launched MANPAD/SAM.

Light Tank: Some speculation that this isn't the TYPE 99 derivative (Can't remember it's designation off hand.) partly because it comes with a 105mm MG that however can fire and is supposedly equipped with an ATGM. No definitive proof that the TYPE 99 version went into production. Re-posting first source to report this tank again as well.

Here are my concerns though with this tank...
1. That gun sure looks like a 125mm to me, at 30-35 tons (1/2 weight of an ABRAM's) and compared against the Japanese TYPE 10 at about 45 tons w/120mm, I feel right about this. It also looks very similar (If not the same.) as the TYPE 99 125mm.

2. Can anyone guess where I'm going next? Look at the turret that screams TYPE 99 to me all day long. So yes I believe this to be the TYPE 99 derivative.

3. I further feel based on the timeline to support my last from #2 above matches the known development of the TYPE 99 derivative. I think Ref. 2 got the gun data confused with the ZBD-2000 Light AMPHIB tank posted below which does have a 105mm and was developed along a similar time-frame.

Bottomline: Though confident in my analysis, I still have some research to do here before it gets submitted.

Now to try to get back to sleep!!


Suhiir May 19th, 2015 06:22 PM

Re: MBT's
Been sort of wondering why we haven't seen much of main gun launched MPADs.

While I'm no weapons engineer it seems it'd be pretty easy to come up with a heat targeting version. A couple sensors on the outside of the tank to lock the target then a rocket launched (the sudden acceleration of a gunpowder launched one would probably destroy the missile) could be sent down range. Probably of limited value vs aircraft due to the limitations of traverse and elevation (and that's probably why it hasn't been done) but should be great vs helos.

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