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-   -   Pz KVII 754(r) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=52782)

RVPERTVS October 19th, 2021 03:14 PM

Pz KVII 754(r)
 
2 Attachment(s)
I recently came across a PZ KVII 754(r) in a LC (the new sprite is awesome BTW). Although they're not common, I've encountered them a couple of times. The point is, though, that this last time (I think the first one in V14) it surprisingly fired a HE round against one of my T34s. I had to try several times to replicate it, as it mostly fires AP rounds. Somehow the code occasionally prefers HE over AP against armored vehicles, but I don't see why (warhead size?).

On the other hand, my opponent in a PBEM game found out that one of his Italian crews was unarmed and with a Rally value of 0. We had never seen anything like that before. Is that how it's supposed to be? We're playing Russia vs Italy 7/1942 full security.

I'm attaching the save files and some screenshots. Thanks in advance.

DRG October 19th, 2021 06:47 PM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
The PZ KVII 754(r) was set up as as a rare (91) AI pick after the last release when Andy mentioned seeing too many of them as well so they will appear less after the next update.

Bailed crew unarmed is weird

Thanks for the comment on the icon.... I did put a little extra in building that one

Mobhack October 19th, 2021 10:00 PM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
The decision as to whether HE is to be used or AP - is the AI's and subject to random numbers etc.

Crew bails with weapons damaged corresponding to the parent vehicle weapon slot damage, so the parent vehicle had few weapons left. This helps the game track what weapons the parent vehicle has damaged on the crew remounting, I believe. (Otherwise bailing a crew and remounting "magically" fixed the vehicles damaged weapons, if any - something I think I fixed way in the DOS days when we initially got the SSI code).

Rally 0 is what is left if the units leader is out of rallies for the current turn - it gets reset at turns end.

RVPERTVS October 20th, 2021 08:05 PM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 851088)
I did put a little extra in building that one

It's a deadly-*** looking icon for sure! Thanks for your efforts :):up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 851088)
they will appear less after the next update

Although I love the icon, I understand they should be very rare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 851089)
The decision as to whether HE is to be used or AP - is the AI's and subject to random numbers etc.

Interesting. So, if I get one myself, it may also fire occasional HEs against AFVs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 851089)
Crew bails with weapons damaged corresponding to the parent vehicle weapon slot damage, so the parent vehicle had few weapons left. This helps the game track what weapons the parent vehicle has damaged on the crew remounting, I believe. (Otherwise bailing a crew and remounting "magically" fixed the vehicles damaged weapons, if any - something I think I fixed way in the DOS days when we initially got the SSI code).

Is that only for damaged vehicles? I keep seeing armed crews out of destroyed guns and vehicles.

Mobhack October 20th, 2021 08:24 PM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
Quote:

Interesting. So, if I get one myself, it may also fire occasional HEs against AFVs?
Quite likely

Quote:

Is that only for damaged vehicles? I keep seeing armed crews out of destroyed guns and vehicles.
Only vehicles get weapon slots damaged...

RVPERTVS October 20th, 2021 08:35 PM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 851091)
Only vehicles get weapon slots damaged...

Thanks. What I meant is that if it only affects the crews of damaged vehicles? because the crews of destroyed vehicles and guns don't see their armament reduced.

Mobhack October 21st, 2021 05:44 AM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RVPERTVS (Post 851092)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 851091)
Only vehicles get weapon slots damaged...

Thanks. What I meant is that if it only affects the crews of damaged vehicles? because the crews of destroyed vehicles and guns don't see their armament reduced.

Only the crews of damaged vehicles, as I said. Because AFAIR only vehicles can get weapon slots damaged - not A/T or Arty guns, mortars etc.

Not that I really bother much with bailed crews, unless they are core troops and need rallying to get them safely to the rear (by foot or on a spare halftrack).

DRG October 21st, 2021 08:11 AM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
Quote:

Interesting. So, if I get one myself, it may also fire occasional HEs against AFVs?
Open up the Armour penetration calculator in the utilities tab of GameOptions and look at the AP / Best AP and the HE / Best HE for that weapon and you will see the line is blurred with that one so depending on the target the AI may decide either will work.

If, for example, you are using it as a German Captured vehicle a 152mm round hitting ( for example ) a Lend-Lease M3 in the side there is little advantage or disadvantage to either an HE or AP round.

Either way, it would not be a good day for the crew of the M3 when a shell weighing 114 lb travelling at 1500 ft/s strikes--- HE or AP

( 5.4 megadjoules = 3,982,835 Foot-pounds Force (ft lbf)

https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...cs/kinetic.php
http://www.kylesconverter.com/energy...--pounds-force

RVPERTVS October 22nd, 2021 06:40 PM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 851093)
Only the crews of damaged vehicles, as I said. Because AFAIR only vehicles can get weapon slots damaged - not A/T or Arty guns, mortars etc.

Not that I really bother much with bailed crews, unless they are core troops and need rallying to get them safely to the rear (by foot or on a spare halftrack).

Thanks Andy. My point was that bailed crews from destroyed vehicles then seem to do better than the damaged ones, which may be counterintuitive. I don't care much about crews either; it's just that I couldn't remember coming across an unarmed one before. It was a CO in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 851094)
there is little advantage or disadvantage to either an HE or AP round.

I thought at first that it was coded to save ammo, as it only packs 6 AP rounds.

MarkSheppard October 24th, 2021 11:24 AM

Re: Pz KVII 754(r)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 851094)
If, for example, you are using it as a German Captured vehicle a 152mm round hitting ( for example ) a Lend-Lease M3 in the side there is little advantage or disadvantage to either an HE or AP round.

Either way, it would not be a good day for the crew of the M3 when a shell weighing 114 lb travelling at 1500 ft/s strikes--- HE or AP

( 5.4 megajoules = 3,982,835 Foot-pounds Force (ft lbf)

I noted this on my website at LINK

Basically everyone started WW2 with 0.20 to 0.30 MJ of gunpower (3.7 cm US and German Guns); and then 1940, you saw a jump to 0.70 to 1.5 MJ in the 50mm weapons (US/GER/SOV), followed by a jump in late 1941 and early 1942 to a range of 1.2 to 2.1 MJ (US 75mm, Soviet 7.62 cm, German 7.5 cm).

That had enormous implications; for many tanks had been designed years earlier with protection schemes for the prior generation of gunpower, and there just wasn't enough time to replace them (production needs).

This affected everyone's medium tank families:

US: Sherman
GER: Panzer IV
SU: T-34
UK: Cromwell

But for obvious reasons, since WW2; everyone focuses on the Sherman.


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