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FASTBOAT TOUGH September 5th, 2010 11:20 PM

Helo News game related.
 
Didn't really want to do this but, it does represent a key element to the game and the AI does like using them as well. Because of budget constraints it's more about improving and extending life cycles on current equipment and maintaining or developing one's own defense infrastructure. Few are doing anything with new equipment though India does come to mind with their new attack helo.
My first entry is the improvement on South Africa's ROOIVALK which was grounded last November (Entire fleet.) due reliability concerns. In fixing the reliability issue they also included upgrades to it's avionics and fire control systems.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18049/

We are currently seeing the deployment of tank munitions in target selection as I noted on the MBT thread with the IDF and Germans so this next weapon is a natural progression of that trend for AH's. HELLFIRE II.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17913/

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 6th, 2010 12:27 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Thought I saved some info on India's LCH AH developed by HAL of India. It did fly again but I believe it was after April as indicated in the sources.
http://www.defenceaviation.com/2010/...elicopter.html more info in this one. And:
http://australianaviation.com.au/ind...-first-flight/ just a second reliable source for reporting purposes.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../lch-specs.htm Good GP performance and weapons info.

Pics:
Attachment 10425 Attachment 10426

Regards and GOOD NIGHT!!
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 9th, 2010 11:41 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
S-70i BLACKHAWK on track and displayed for the first time.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18100/

New heavy lift helo on track CH-53K
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18083/

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 13th, 2010 08:09 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Please take note of the useful time-lines provided by this source in these articles.

A further more in depth article of the HELLFIRE II.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...issiles-05043/

Also an article on the ARROWHWEAD targeting system being used by the USA APACHE.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...461/#more-6461

Bahrain first foreign buyer to get UH-60M designed for the export market.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...379/#more-3379

Turkey to get A-129 AH's before getting updated versions of them designated as T-129. The A-129 has been in service since 1989 with Italy. T-129 pictogram in upper left might be of interest.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...397/#more-2397

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 14th, 2010 12:40 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Correction to my last; the S-70i is the export designed version of the BLACKHAWK.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 17th, 2010 03:18 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
3 Attachment(s)
Let's do some SARs or "Angels from above" as some might think them after receiving help from them.
Malaysia to receive the EC725 SAR Helo to replace their "NURIS" or better known as S-61 SEA KINGS by 2012 or 2013.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...copters-06338/

Also the US is looking to replace their HH-60G PAVE HAWK in the
C(ombat)SAR area. The two being considered to date are the AgustaWestland HH-71.
http://defense-update.com/wp/20100913_hh71_csar.html
Pic:
Attachment 10483

With Sikorsky and Lockheed Martin will offer the HH-60 Recap based on the UH-60M BLAWKHAWK platform.
http://defense-update.com/wp/20100715_hh60_recap.html
Pic:
Attachment 10485

And you can't rescue Pilots, or extract (We never "rescue"
Spec Op teams.) SEALS, SAS or whom ever without close air support or as I like to call it, a cheap excuse to work in a picture I really like!!
Attachment 10484

Flares everywhere, looks good in a picture, wouldn't want to do it for real though.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 1st, 2010 02:09 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The CORPS to get the AH-1Z. On 24 September the AH-1Z was considered to have completed it's OPEVAL process. The CORPS will get 189 new and remanufactured birds with final delivery to be completed in 2021.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18353/

Pic:
Attachment 10532

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 30th, 2010 01:50 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Would have more to post now but I am saving those for what I hope will be my last one for this patch season. I hope to economize on weapon variants within a particular HELO and I have around @ least 15+ deletions in this area alone game related, since my earlier post I'm thinking ~30+ deletions. And as most know by now all supported by solid refs. To help clear unneeded refs from my favorites here you go. Germany has cleared some of this up but there are no updates to suggust they've restarted the processing of further orders of the Euro-copter TIGER helos.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...411/#more-6411

Some have asked why keep the refs in my favorites, simply for some sites as above I use do a GREAT job of updating their articles so; when I'm ready to actually use them they might in some cases have been updated since I first pulled them from the net.
I hope EVERYONE is having or had a GREAT DAY!
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH December 5th, 2010 02:33 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
That article was released from NAVAIR. If it flies for the USN or the CORPS they own it from the drawing board to when it gets melted down basically. You'll see the releasing source to the right of the header for any DefPro articles. DefPro (and others I use.) are just "news" agencies. Here are three of my refs from my PG 3 Patch recommendations list (On paper at this point.) addressing the AH-1Z as being discussed. I'm holding the rest of the refs until the list is ready to go, but these answer the current issue. I will re-post the last off the APC thread fro continuity.

1. http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18440/ See para.2 note the key word is {B]"recommended"[/b]. And the official release.
http://www.navair.navy.mil/press_rel...413&site_id=23

2. http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20163/ See para.1
28 Nov. approved for full rate production.

3. http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/ great overview of the AH-1W and AH-1Z programs. See para.6 which should answer the question.

See post #7 this thread.

Two factors are causing the date issues which is another reason I use DefPro and a couple of others, they don't update all their info Global Security on this topic is a perfect example of an excellent hard source that does this sometimes. The biggest reason however was the redirection to give priority to the final opeval testing and production of the UH-1Y to meet the demands of the CORPS to replace it's aging HUEY's with a more reliable lift platform.

Will be offline for a couple of days, it's a time of reflection over "things lost" for the immediate family.
Have a great weekend and thank you for patience.

Regards,
Pat

DRG December 5th, 2010 11:08 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Thanks Pat. All the Best

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 12th, 2011 05:31 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Helo news:

1. SAAF having continuing problems with it's helos and decision making.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/21939/

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 14th, 2011 12:15 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Just finishing what I started yesterday in the transfer of "raw data" from the "patch thread" to the home threads. Q&A between Don and myself along with the pictures are again, as a reminder in the "Patch Thread". A perfect example here is, how about that RNZAF NH90 TH A109 helo add? Like I said you're getting it the way I presented it.


Helo News game...

I'm going to start this a little differently see APC Page 7 Post #69 for a moment, read it carefully please, then carry on. In hindsight maybe I should've polled the issue, the only response I got came from Suhiir on Post #70. But I'm taking my shot here based on the fact no one took the opportunity to "kill" the idea since I posted it, so here goes. This applies to the USMC AH-1Z, USA AH-64D BIII and Turkish T129 AKAK for now as they are new platforms. Multi-missioned and armed in one package as normally equipped configuration per the refs and pictures offered.

Here's comes the "rub" as discussed above. As this is a work in progress the "rub" is where I left off a day ago. I thought, I would find more to delete here but there's less. I have had to make some guesses here as the USMC AH-1 helos never got designated past I believe it was the AH-1T (Only one if I remember.) in the game. So I offer the following solution. The AH-1W came into service in 1985, I'm sorry but I didn't have time to track them all down and I had to check them all manually to find 1. Which were the latest AH-1W helos to establish the "bridge" to the AH-1Z? & 2. Were the AH-1Z helos entered based on the projected earlier delivery dates? I hope I did, here goes:

A1. ADD: USMC/AH-1Z VIPER/JUN 2011/C2/M 179 20mm AG w/750Rds, 8 AGM-114L LONGBOW HELLFIRE ATGW, 2 x 2.75 Laser Guided AFPKWS (LGA) 19 Shot Rocket Pods and (2 AIM-9 SIDEWINDER AAM dropping these as I now see more clearly the game limited weapons slot issue with the helos.)/ Picture below shows this configuration. Also the USA doesn't get the LGA as they dropped the program. The PDF Pocket Guide is a must here in the Protection and TSS sections in particular. Armor protection up to 23mm rounds in the rotor section and it keeps flying is substantial as an example. Recommend that TI/GSR 60, increase FC and survivability such as IR dampeners were greatly improved and armored engine surfaces (AH-1W as depicted by M3 has been modified to this standard as well.) as compared to UNITS 502 & 503 below.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18440/
Bell announces that on Sep. 24, 2010 NAVAIR deems the AH-1Z operationally ready.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20163/
Approved for full rate production Nov. 28, 2010.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20437/
As above from Bell.
http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co.../bellAH-1Z.cfm
Overview and I highly recommended checking out the PDF Pocket Guide in upper left for more detailed info.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/
Excellent info on the AH-1W and AH-1Z.
This needs addressing especially as these are tied into the TSS system above and with the AH-1W as well, just a recommendation anyway.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/
Deployed on AH-1W helos now. USA dropped the program the USN was smarter here to finish it, and who says we don't take care of the Marines!?! Well sometimes anyway!?!
http://www.deagel.com/news/APKWS-Gui...000007266.aspx
Production ready. Accuracy to within 0.75M vice I believe the unguided accuracy was between 5M to 10M.
http://www.defense-update.com/newsca...009042010.html
As above.
Posts: APC Thread Page 7; #69, Page 8; #70; #71 & 75. USMC Aircraft... thread (All threads page 3) Post #5. From this thread Page 1; Posts #1; #4; #7 &9.

Believe these to be the AH-1W and AH-1Z.

M1. MOD: USMC/AH-1/Use UNIT 502 to model the above A1. ADD AH-1Z VIPER.

D1. DELETE: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 503/ As noted above.

M2. MOD: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 501/AH-1 to AH-1W/End date from DEC 2005 to DEC 2010./

M3. MOD: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 500/AH-1 to AH-1W/JAN 2010 to DEC 2020 vice JAN 2000 to DEC 2005/This is the bridge unit to the AH-1Z as an improved AH-1W, REMEMBER as noted in the refs above most airframes are going to come from the AH-1W. These are improved above the levels as they exist in the game now and slightly "dumbed down" from the AH-1Z helos. Weapons same, TI/GSR 45-50, FC+, Protection etc. Though some improvements have started as noted not (all) will be included until these are sent to be finally fully refitted and RESET to the AH-1Z thus effectively ending the AH-1W series after 2020.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/19155/

AH-1W target system upgrade.
http://www.military-today.com/helico..._hueycobra.htm
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Armor-Wea...001111006.aspx

Overview of the HELLFIRE "LONGBOW".
Pics:

A2. ADD: TURKEY/T129/JUN 2012/C2/Vulcan TM197B 20mm w/500Rds, 2 x 4 SPIKE ER ATGW, 2 x 2.75 Laser Guided CIRIT 19 Shot Rocket Pods/Based on the (is) Italian A129I Helo.
The A129 "MONGOOSE" has been in service since 1989 and is battle tested most recently in IRAQ. It was chosen over the SAAF (DENAL) AH-2A ROOIVALK in the final round of completion. Turkey had to reopen it's AH Helo competition over the long delays in the AH-1Z program. Turkey opted out of that program in 2004, which was the only export customer for the AH-1Z.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-02397/
Full program background.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/agusta/
Same as above with more technical info.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/690/
Additional order.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/10114/
Maiden flight.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/7...s_eng.php?id=5
About Turkish CIRIT.
http://www.roketsan.com.tr/programs_eng.php?id=6
About Turkish ATGW LARAT.
http://www.military-today.com/helico...9_mangusta.htm First of its kind in Europe.
Pics:

D2. DELETE: TURKEY/AH-1Z/UNITS 484 - 487/
As noted above.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...raft/ah-1z.htm
Last section covers the above.

A3. ADD: USA/APACHE AH-64D BIII/JAN 2012/C2/30mm w/1.2KRds, 8 AGM-114L LONGBOW HELLFIRE ATGW & 2 x 2.75 AFPKWS 19 Shot Rocket Pods picture provided./ The Block III takes the APACHE certainly to and beyond the levels of the AH-X COMANCHE except in the area of stealth. The advances in electronics and bandwidth are far beyond what was achieved in the 6 - 8 years since the AH-X program was killed. The debate has already started (Some a handful of years ago.) as to which is better the AH-64D Block III or AH-1Z. I'd say it's too close to call. What I don't doubt is when they come on line, 1 will be #1 and the other #2 and #2 isn't so bad when you're on the same side.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/
http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Helicop...000519004.aspx
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/ah-64d-3.htm
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...III-helicopter

Poor mans preview.
http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/10/25...ck-iii-apache/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/19087/

Approves low rate production.
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Armor-Wea...001111006.aspx
Overview of the HELLFIRE "LONGBOW".
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...461/#more-6461
Details some of the sensor issues I brought up above.

So now we say goodbye too:

D3. USA/AH-X (COMANCHE)/UNITS 274 - 276 & 916/
As noted above.

D4. ISRAEL/AH-X (COMANCHE)/UNIT 283./ As above.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...aircraft_id=49
http://air-attack.com/page/62/RAH-66-Comanche.html
http://www.military-today.com/helico...6_comanche.htm


A4. ADD: NEW ZEALAND/NH 90 TTH A109/JUN 2011/C3 P20/
With its roll on - roll off ramp it can also accommodate a single vehicle up to 2.5 tons. The TTH has "nap of the earth" flying ability. There is supposed to work done or being done to accommodate MG's for protection.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...0466/#more-466
Breakdown of the RNZAF NH-90 program.
http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/nh_90.htm

That's all of them and I'll work a little closer with Don on a timeline to minimize or better to spread this stuff out for the 2011 - 2012 campaign. My many thanks to all of you and Don especially for letting me get this info through up to the end when I did. This is for all the hard work that Don and Andy do and to all the rest that work hard on the OOB's out there. But it's all for naught without the players who make this worth while at least for me to do this in the first place speaking for myself at any rate. :clap: :cheers:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 27th, 2011 03:45 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
1 Attachment(s)
News of the past week.

1. Chinese new transport helo type and lift capabilities unknown.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22242/
Pic from above source:
Attachment 10864

Notice what appears to be one of the newest AH's in the upper left. It appears to be similar to the former USA CHEYNNE AH. I have been following the development of a new AH by the Chinese that might make next years list.

Note to self track and follow for the 2011/2012 campaign.

Regards,
Pat

Warwick March 7th, 2011 01:08 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Although I can't be certain the large helo looks like a Super Frelon, it could be the AC313 which was revealed at the Zhuhai 2010 airshow which is another Super Frelon clone minus the boat-shaped fuselage bottom.

Regards,
Warwick

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 13th, 2011 04:28 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
News from the past week.

1. Brazil gets the UH-60L, they will replace the UH-1H helos the Panther Squadron has been operating for almost 40 years. The question here is though the ref states these are for SAR, they could be pressed into military service in theory. Does this make it a game issue if no other UH-60 helos are used by Brazil or any other country in a similiar situation?
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22597/

2. USMC declares the AH-1Z operational. Note picture again supports version submitted for the game and hopefully for "slot management" the "one size fits all" discussion I presented on the patch post covering it and posts prior to that. Also para 6 breaks down the the number of AH-1W RESET conversions and how many AH-1Z helos will come from new airframes. Most AH-1W helos are currently only slightly "dumbed down" from the 1Z see the patch post refs again on this.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22597/

Follow up? :capt:



Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 3rd, 2011 02:32 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The news of the last week...

1. Well this week should prove interesting starting with this first item here and ending with the MBT thread. It looks like Lebanon will get some of my attention for the 2011/2012 patch campaign but thus far nothing to the extent overall of last years campaign :rolleyes:, ok I'll give it my best shot anyway and I promise no inputs for New Zealand!! ;) Based on one of the following refs (#2 a reliable source.) apparently Lebanon has no fighter aircraft at all, and will need some modification after I've done a little more research into the matter. I will assume the T-72 tanks are the T-72M1M which is the current Russian export model that Venezuela just recieved as well among other systems. But this is the Helo world and Lebanon is to or has gotten the consummate air assault helo with a carry of C3/P8 fully weaponized Mi-24 (Not Mi-35M export version.) attack helos.
http://www.helihub.com/2010/11/26/le...ia-offers-six/
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htp.../20101125.aspx

Pic:
Attachment 10968

2. This next is very confusing the way the article comes across. Awhile back (Last summer/early fall.) I reported that the ROOIVALK was grounded for numerous problems maintenance related. They were all to have been overhauled with updated avionics and sensor/weapons systems. I believe these are RESET birds similar to what happened with the USMC AH-1Z birds. If the article stands as is we got this bird wrong in the game, however I'm standing by the RESET issue until I prove myself wrong. See earlier posts on the the ROOIVALK in this thread. This is normally a very reliable source.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...54&c=MID&s=AIR

3. The CH-53K will be ready for the CORPS operationally by 2018. This helo will replace the heavy lift CH-53E SUPER STALLION and will be called the SUPER DUPER STALLION when fielded. Alright just seeing if you were paying attention out there!?! :shock:
Please note stats at the bottom this is a major improvement to the CH-53E.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23042/

4. HELLFIRE II ROMEO almost ready as it reaches another milestone.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23204/

Well I'm off to bed enjoy the rest of your weekends as mine has just begun, guten nacht! Got to keep some people honest and Mom would be so proud!?!

FOLLOW UP ON THERE'S WORK HERE! :capt:
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 5th, 2011 11:34 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Just wanted to clear up the ROOIVALK story from the previous post item #2. As I suspected they were and are still being RESET to include a new ATGW, improved FC, night fighting capabilities, TI/GSR and avionics. In total over 130 modifications were made. All ROOIVALK helos will be RESET before years end.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23382/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23380/
http://www.helihub.com/2011/01/26/de...dy-for-market/


On the list for follow up for the 2011/2012 campaign :capt:

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir April 6th, 2011 01:03 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 774827)
3. The CH-53K will be ready for the CORPS operationally by 2018. This helo will replace the heavy lift CH-53E SUPER STALLION and will be called the SUPER DUPER STALLION when fielded. Alright just seeing if you were paying attention out there!?! :shock:
Please note stats at the bottom this is a major improvement to the CH-53E.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23042/

Regards,
Pat

Dang !
Apparently the info I'd gotten on the CH-53K (lord knows when I got it, worked on the OOB for like 3 years) was dead wrong as I had them available in 1996.
Probably a classic case of intended upgrade delayed by funding.
Thanks Pat !

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 25th, 2011 02:51 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
News of the LW+:

1. The GAO determines the money well spent for the CH-53K.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23400/

2. More on HELLFIRE II and variants.
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...re-ii-missile/

3. Russia to bring back the Mi-35AH, it appears Russia's military has been impressed with the performance of the Mi-35M that it's ordered it's own which are more advanced then the current versions they have flying now, among other helo news in the ref.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...copter%20Force

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 10th, 2011 12:33 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
News of the LW+

1. USAF looking to retire it's UH-1 helos, yes that's correct the UH-1. Wait until you read where they're using them, that was a surprise to me!
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...191b9776308985

2. USAF helo acquisition strategy.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23981/

3. Australian DOD puts the brakes on the MRH-90 helo. The MH-90 series helos have had problems along the same lines in Europe as well.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/24065/

4. USA retires the last UH-1 helos serving in Europe.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/24113/

5. So how about those stealthy MH-60 BLACKHAWKs? Well there might be some concerns that China is going to have a look as reported in our mainstream media as well, before we get our parts back.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...86c3bf6a116162

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir May 10th, 2011 12:30 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 776963)
News of the LW+

1. USAF looking to retire it's UH-1 helos, yes that's correct the UH-1. Wait until you read where they're using them, that was a surprise to me!
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...191b9776308985

Regards,
Pat

The USMC is still using the UH-1 airframe.
They recently upgraded to the UH-1Y "Venom" configuration.

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 12th, 2011 02:49 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
5 Attachment(s)
The UH-1 was in development in the mid 50's (XH-40) and was delivered to the USA IN 1959/1960 depending on ref as the UH-1A dubbed "IROQUOIS". The series ran UH-1A - UH-1D, then in 1967 the UH-1D was replaced by the UH-1H which was the most powerful of the single engine types with the L-13 engine, also it was the most produced version. It would be "replaced" in 1971 by the twin engined (P&W PT-6 engines better known as simply "TwinPac") this was designated as the UH-1N.
I was just still surprised that the USAF is using UH-1N helos for the mission as described in the article. I think given the mission they could've scrapped up some BLACKHAWKS or LAKODAS from somewhere until they figured out what they really want flying on those bases.
Anyway, yes the original plan did call for USMC AH-1N airframes to be RESET to the UH-1Y however due to op tempo issues, force level downtime and the marginal cost difference, it was decided to go with 123 new modified UH-1N airframes to make the UH-1Y.
The first three paras of ref A covers this and more. Saved the refs because I found a couple of issues with the UH-1Y in the game that I just ran out of time to address in my last Patch Post choosing to focus on the AH-1Z, APACHE BLK III etc. plus weapons and associated other issues as you might remember. They will be addressed this time around. The CORPS makes due with what it has and finds a way to make it better, sounds like the IDF as well.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/uh_1y/
http://somd.com/news/headlines/2006/4123.shtml
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index..../story_ID/9574
http://www.helihub.com/2010/07/19/be...-1-production/


Pics:
Attachment 11140 XH-40 Attachment 11141 UH-1A
Attachment 11142 UH-1D Attachment 11144 UH-1D
Attachment 11143 UH-1N

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH July 5th, 2011 12:19 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Based on the recent post to the Patch Post thread, I'm going to do some more clean up work.

1. This deals with the TI/GSR issue raised above. I originally brought this up in the last Patch Post and thought to do so again with more information that's now posted below. They make for good reading.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...461/#more-6461
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/19280/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23537/


A related sidebar.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20902/

I will of course I will continue to track the APACHE Block III program as it could be a "game changer" as discussed in the last PP Thread.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 25th, 2012 04:40 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Update Alert!!! Well I was within the 6 month "swag" of this country getting the NH-90 TTH. A veritable coup on my part ladies and gentlemen if I do say so myself and I do! Much needed by this country though the acquisition was delayed by problems both within during the evaluations and outside the country since resolved. Yes New Zealand has finally got a modern up to date Med. lift helo...what!?!...New Zealand isn't in the game!! Refer to Pg. #2 Post #12 or better yet Patch Post Thread Pg. #5 Post #41. In this year of the extreme amount of changes forth coming just a reminder besides fact checking you don't forget to game check as well!
This message is sponsored by CGSDAS yes the; Concerned Gamers Society for Don and Andy's Sanity of which I've done my part in reducing it :shock: with that and other :doh: moments...live and learn or plan the timing of it better anyway!?! :p

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 29th, 2012 01:36 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
OOB EQUIP. UPDATE: Turkish T-129 game fielding date 8/2012. According to these updates date closer to 1/2013, however as we're within the 6 month "swag" I recommend unless the date slips to 4/2013+ that no action be taken at this time. Second ref was one of many used originally.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tim...&NewsCatID=345
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...kish-bid-award


Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH March 3rd, 2013 11:06 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
As always I transfer input recommendations back to their home threads after allowing an appropriate amount of time for Don and Andy to address any issues while in the Patch Thread. Pictures do not transfer over-sorry. Enjoy! It's yours now.

Well it's been a couple of years I think since anything has been done with helicopters. Some of this was meant to have done a while ago but was put off to cover other areas. I just picked up from where I left off and continued the work. Don I ask for your patience as I hope I haven't duplicated any issues already addressed. It's been a tough year and hard for me to focus, literally. What's not here of importance? 1. Date change for India CH-47F still in evaluation with contract unsigned though this is India Heavy Lift Helo winner. 2. India again pending final contract agreement on the AH-64D APACHE. 3. Taiwan WILL be the first export customer of the AH-64E. So what's a AH-64E? 4. Last fall the USA had officially designated the APACHE Block III the AH-64E. These will lead the HELOS for the 2013/2014 Campaign.
Speed issues I leave to you Don just threw out some rough numbers but faster is faster. This magnifier is a PITA so let's get started...

HELOS…
A1. SOUTH AFRICA/ADD/APR 2011/ROOIVALK Mk I/RESET/ADD/EW 8/TI/GSR 60/FCS +Current factors//
The Mk I has undergone significant changes beyond just avionics and engine upgrades that lead to the safety issues that grounded the ROOIVALK for 1 ½ years (See C6 below.). With the improvements to targeting systems above the systems to the above ROOIVALK the TI/GSR rating should be extended out to 60 as DENAL is no light weight when it comes to such FC/Targeting systems. Also with improved engines and avionics it’s faster, more maneuverable and a little more “stealthy” with improved IR dampeners and defensive capabilities then its predecessor so an EW improvement should be made as well.
http://www.dod.mil.za/news/news%2020...20apr11%20.htm
http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and...ivalk-block-1f
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23380/
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...tional-355117/
http://www.deagel.com/news/South-Afr...000008623.aspx
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/news115257.html


A2. UNITED KINGDOM/ADD/JUN 2013/PUMA HC2/RESET/Use UNIT 574/ADD/2X7.62mm Minigun Rds UKN/EW 6/TI/GSR 40 or 50/Speed increased by ~10 hexes above current movement allowance per turn.// The focus of the RESET was to replace the engines which now generate 35% more power, replaced the cockpit controls, electronics/defensive suites with reconditioned airframes. Also refs talk about it now being able to carry twice the payload. However, I don’t know how that equates to extra troops or not. The PUMA almost became a victim of the UK’s SDR cuts, but the continued need (Afghan Ops.) to increase the available types of transport helos that can operate at higher altitudes, more varied terrain, climatic conditions and it just being cheaper then buying new helos kept the upgrade program alive.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...71213w0005.htm
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...784/#more-3784
http://www.helihub.com/2009/09/30/eu...ion-programme/
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...s/puma8069.xml
http://www.helihub.com/2011/06/24/fi...orce-puma-mk2/
http://www.helihub.com/2011/09/30/ra...s-of-puma-ops/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/37257/
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Fa...heets/Puma.htm
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/puma.cfm


A3. USA/USMC/ADD/JAN 2007/MH-47G CHINOOK/USE UNIT 293/C6/P34-50 (Depending on equip.)/Port and Starboard mounted 2xM134 7.62 mm Miniguns just aft of the cockpit & 2xM240G 7.62mm at the last set of windows Rds UKN/ADD Refueling boom to the Starbrd. Side of the nose./Based on date requested with upgrades done to this point TI/GSR 60/EW 8/FC 6/FF 6/STAB. 5 or 6//As noted above trying to get one ”current” model in for each OOB to save a couple of slots as more is to come (Also see C8 below.). SOCOM is at the top of the Special Ops “food chain” with JSOC and the various military branches having their own “SOCs”. The 160th SOAR “Night Stalkers” (Under USASOC.) of Somalia and Bin Laden raid fame provide the bulk of helo operational support to the SEALS, Green Berets and Rangers amongst others. These are probably the most advanced transport helos in the world. Of the at least 4 helos known to have been involved in the Bin Laden raid raid it wasn’t the helos that attracted the neighbors (Not until a MH-60S crashed anyway.) but the gun fire. Boeing turned over the first CH-47G/MH-47G to the Army in mid summer of 2004 in Philadelphia Pa. The first combat mission was flown in Feb. 2007 another reason for the above date. The last SLEP (RESET) MH-47E conversion to MH-47G was turned over to SOCOM on Mar. 4 2011. SOCOM is to receive a handful of new build birds still and has requested more to meet future operational needs.
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/mil...h47e/index.htm
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/mil...G_overview.pdf
http://www.guncopter.com/mh-47g/
http://www.socom.mil/News/Pages/fina...Paircraft.aspx
http://www.socom.mil/sordac/PEO/Rota...G_Chinook.aspx
http://nightstalkers.americanspecial...ters/mh-47.php
http://www.americanspecialops.com/ph...ranger-sov.php
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mi...dex.php?Page=1


A4. FRANCE JAN 2005/BRAZIL JUN 2012/MAYLAYSIA JUNE 2013/INDONESIA JUN 2014/
THAILAND JUNE 2015/ADD/EC 725 “SUPER” COUGAR/C5 P26/2 x FN MAG 60-30 250/or 1000Rd “Drums”/Optional 2 x 20mm POD mounted GIAT Cannons 180Rds/or 2 x 68mm THALES/or FORGE ZEEBRUGGE 19 Rd Rocket Launchers/TI/GSR 60/EW 8/Advanced composite add on armor is available and is used by the French. Mexico (The largest or next user of the EC 725.) supposedly has it also though not in the game. Malaysia’s are being reported to being equipped in the same manner as the French versions. Adjust armor ratings as you see fit for FRANCE and MAYLASIA/USE FRENCH UNIT 516 AS BASE//
Concerning Thailand they have been very good about getting the equipment they have ordered, however, there are mixed reports about whether the contract has actually been signed or not. Based on this information I’ll leave it to you whether you wish to add it to Thailand’s OOB. This represents the Special Ops/CSAR version for the countries listed. The other COUGARS listed in the game are the “older” version AS 532 (Still in production.) which has a longer fuselage that allows it to carry additional troops, less advanced and slower, its primary function is as a troop transport. The EC 725 is a further development of the AS 532 to provide a faster (324km/hr/or205mph) more versatile multi-function platform. A lot of effort was made in the protection of this helo to include updated active and passive defensive systems such as laser warning systems, use of composite materials that significantly reduces its Radar and IR signatures. Also features a fully digitally equipped cockpit, SATCOM/NAVSAT systems to support “nap of the earth’ flying with full day and night flying capabilities and more powerful and reliable engines, because of this, the armor kit has little effect on overall speed and lift capabilities.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ec725/
http://www.airrecognition.com/index....sk=view&id=331
http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/ref/Missions_174.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/laad_...1_1404116.html.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/n...25-helicopters
http://helihub.com/2012/12/04/royal-...twelve-ec725s/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...copters-04959/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...issions-07542/


A5. KENYA JAN 2010/CAMBODIA JAN 2014/ADD/Z-9WA/USE CHINESE UNIT 490//The Chinese Z-9 is licensed built by Harbin Aircraft (HAMC) from the French Aerospatiale (Eurocopter.) AS 365N/DAUPHIN II helicopter. Kenya was the first export customer for the Z-9WA. This helicopter represents a reasonable balance in transport and attack capabilities, which is why this helicopter is finding and filling a niche in both the African and Asian markets. The previous version of the Z-9WA has been exported to the game countries of Laos and Pakistan. The one thing in common with these export customers is they all have unrest within and near their borders.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/z9.asp
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/...ifications.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htp.../20100115.aspx
http://www.9abc.net/archives/15281
http://www.kenyacentral.com/general/...d-afmadow.html
(See sentence just above picture on left mid article.)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...7JM0XI20110822
http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...-Cambodia.html
http://www.khmernews.com/view/air-fo...s-in-2013/5124
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/2012122...dia-bound.html


A6. IRAQ JAN 2006/CHINA JAN 2009/AFGANISTAN DEC 2010/INDIA JAN 2012/C3 P36/ADD/Mi-17-V5/USE RUSSIAN UNIT 355 AS MODIFIED BELOW//This helicopter is the export version of the Russian Mi-8MTV5 and each represents the most advanced version of the type now flown. This version is nick named the “NIGHT NOCH” or Night Owl and was designed to fully support both day and night operations under all weather conditions and operate at higher altitudes and terrain. This is why the U.S. bought these helos for both Iraq and Afghanistan.

C1. RUSSIA/Mi-8MTV-5/UNIT 355/CHANGE/START DATE TO JAN 2000/INCREASE SPEED/10% GRATIS/EW 5/TI/GSR 40//As pointed out above these are the most advanced version of the Mi-8/Mi-17 helos. The current start date reflects the time the helo was still in final development and on the air show circuit. The major changes this model(s) received over previous ones are a all new digital cockpit giving this helo full night and all weather flight capabilities. An armored cockpit with all electrical and fluid systems similarly protected. New engines which allowed for high altitude ops, increased lift capabilities along with speed. A newer version is being tested now with newer more powerful engines. Refs cover A6 and C1.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mi8-17-hip/
http://www.mi-helicopter.ru/eng/index.php?id=254
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...-in-july-2012/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/29594/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32530/


C2. USMC/MV-22/UNIT 599/CHANGE/End Date to JUN 2009/ADD M240G 7.62mm Rds UKN.//As it operates as a helo it was given the MG noted for ground suppression as most helos have. Designed to swing out from the bulkhead into firing position on approach and take off. See below refs.

C3. USMC/MV-22/UNIT 650/CHANGE/Dates to JAN 2009 - DEC 2020/ADD BAE GAU-17 7.62mm Minigun Rds UKN & Maintain current .50 cal.//
This is an auto retractable ball turret, mounted @ the bottom of the fuselage centerline. It has an integrated FCS to include advanced FLIR and target optic systems which are RO by a crew member operated "game system" and in the cockpit as well, as one of the videos show a FLIR target screen in there. This will cause an increase in vision to about 30 minimum I would think. This is in addition to the rear ramp MG already carried on board this unit which was mounted about this same time.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/osprey/
http://www.military-today.com/helico..._22_osprey.htm
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-cv-22s-04618/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22480/


C4. USMC/UH-1Y/UNITS 322 & 323/CHANGE Dates to SEP 2008 – DEC 2010/HS to 3 vice 0/ADD TI/GSR 40./UNIT 322 replace APKWS II ASM with HYDRA 70.//The UH-1Y and AH-1Z share a commonality of parts at about 85% to reduce maintenance costs. With the advanced FLIR and BRITE Star TI systems onboard and the fact that they did not go operational until the date shown, these units should have the same TI/GSR of UNITS 320& 321. Also of note the rotors and engine housing area has the same protection against 23mm rounds as the AH-1Z (See UNIT 172.) as noted in the refs. Ref #2 has good replacement photos for UNITS 320 - 323 vice the current shown UH-1N.

C5. USMC/UH-1Y/UNITS 320 & 321/CHANGE HS to 3 vice 0 as noted above./UNIT 320 replace 50 cal M2HB with GAU-21 50 cal./UNIT 321 replace HYDRA 70 with APKWS II ASM//

The CORPS was “all in” by this time with the APKWS II ASM. See refs 7-10 below concerning GAU-21 50cal with Night Sights.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...program-03541/
http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/HD/Chronol...early/2008.htm
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/uh1y-huey/
http://www.naval-technology.com/proj...ty-helicopter/
http://somd.com/news/headlines/2006/4123.shtml
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index..../story_ID/9574
http://www.asdnews.com/news/30989/GA...with_UH-1Y.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...0109-mcn01.htm
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/20...gau21_010410w/
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_50cal-M3M_MG.htm
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=11442
http://www.deagel.com/news/Upgraded-...000009578.aspx
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/
This last ref provides an update on the APKWS II ASM with the new Mk 152 warhead that will also be used on the HARRIER and A-10besides the USMC helos, to be fielded in 2012.


C6. SOUTH AFRICA/ROOIVALK/UNITS 189, 190 and 899 - 902/CHANGE End Date to NOV 2009.//
This helo is very advanced featuring 4th Gen integrated image intensifier and FLIR systems, TopOwl sight display for integrated weapons system control. This helo is considered “stealthy” even by today’s standards. All the areas thus covered and in the refs were improved upon with the Mk I below but, the problem wasn't with the design capabilities of the ROOIVALK but in the unreliability of it’s engines (Primarily with the gear box.), safety (5 helos lost to accidents/crashes.), high cost of maintenance, obsolescence of ground support equipment and facilities and budget woes to the point that the ROOIVALK was put into storage. This was an embarrassment to the military and government which hoped to showcase this helo at the World Cup in the hopes of generating international sales. The only question I have here is should the TI/GSR be improved for the above units? Also note that the last two refs deal with the Non MK I ROOIVALK.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18049/
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...-ah2-rooivalk/
http://www.military-today.com/helico...2_rooivalk.htm


C7. USA/AH-64A APACHE/UNITS 907 & 935/CHANGE End Date to JUL 2012//All USA AH-64A models have now either been sold off or have been RESET to the AH-64D BLK II model. In service since 1985this model has had a very successful run from the start of its career during the Cold War to the present. Amongst others, it was a game changer in land warfare and played its part in changing the Soviet mindset to more defensive tactics during the 1980’s. The last sixteen units to be converted belonged to the National Guard and where flown to the Boeing Mesa AZ. Plant in May 2012 for conversion.
http://asc.army.mil/web/access-army-...he-helicopter/
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=8737045
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...uration-02972/
(See the Contracts and Key Events section in above ref Sep 25/12 and Jan 11/12 entries.)
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...he-helicopter/
http://www.military-today.com/helico...64a_apache.htm


C8. USA/MH-47/UNIT 293/Change name to MH-47E/Change End Date to JAN 2010/ADD to USMC OOB/See A3 above to include refs.//First change to simplify any future info that might cause a change to that particular helo. Second allows for the last couple of helos to be removed from service and prepped for the SLEP (RESET) Program and flight evaluations before being turned over to SOCOM as noted above on MAR 4, 2011. Third the “ADD“ allows the Player and AI ready access to the MH helos that would in reality be used by the USN SEALS, Special Boat Unit and to a somewhat lesser degree USMC MARSOC units such as Force Recon/Sniper/or Sniper Recon/DAP etc. where Marine/Naval air units are not available. Covered in related refs above.

D1. EAST GERMANY (DDR)/DELETE/Mi-24W/UNITS 125 & 907//
The DDR LSK/LV never operated this variant of the Mi-24. The LSK/LV only operated the MI-24D/P models of this attack helicopter.

D2. GERMANY/DELETE/Mi-8T/UNIT 327.// These helos were either sold off or scrapped. It should be pointed out here that the only East German piece of military equipment to see active service in Germany after reunification was the MIG-29. This is to include the “rumored” use of the T-62 (See MBT Thread Post #238.) or the Mi-24P of which You Tube and others show flying in Luftwaffe colors (See Jets and Planes but… Thread Post #96.) during test and evaluation flights ONLY. Except as noted East German equipment over time met the same fate as these Mi-8T helos.

A7. USA JAN 2013/TAIWAN OCT 2013/ADD/APACHE AH-64E GUARDIAN/Use UNIT 916/EW 10 or 12/TI/GSR 60-80/Speed 10-15%+// Well to say this is the most advanced AH out there would be an understatement, it is a game changer in the real world and in the end probably in the game upon further evaluation of the information provided. If not now (TI/GSR) later as more information comes to light. I start with quotes concerning the performance of the AH-64E over the AH-64D from ref. 3 Col. Shane Openshaw APACHE Project Manager, "I had the opportunity to fly a Block III Apache a week ago and I will tell you the performance of the aircraft is tremendous," Openshaw said. "It's fast, strong and capable. We have also made improvements to the target acquisition platform. The backbone of the aircraft is an open-system architecture with improved mission command and interoperability."
Also from Ref. 4 (It also address foreign sales most importantly Taiwan.),
During testing last year, operators in the E model were able to counter realistic air defense threats in demonstrations at Naval Air Station China Lake, Calif., says Col. John Lynch, attack helicopter manager at Army Training and Doctrine Command. He says the helicopters were able to maintain their positions and maneuver as needed and had power margin while the Block II Apaches were “shot down” in similar exercises. “The Block III absolutely frustrated these folks that operate these [air defense] systems,” he says. The added power is due in part to improved composite main rotor blades that are six inches longer and feature a new tip design for improved aerodynamic performance as well as improved General Electric T700-GE-701D engines, Koopersmith says. The first ref. as most know by now found out (About the site.) will be in subscriber and or update phase still by time this is posted. But once available will be an outstanding source concerning the AH-64E. The last ref. is useful as a check of countries that fly the AH-64A/D models.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...-signed-02480/
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...o-come-380875/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/26074/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/34196/
http://www.army.mil/article/77128/Ap...well_in_tests/
http://www.army.mil/article/90221/Up...or_production/
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...roduction.html
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....-01-511015.xml
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2013/01/post_1023.html
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/s...-now-guardian/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ization-04250/
http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/new...php?id=2120011
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/n...che-attack.htm
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/mil...h64d/index.htm

BONUS Read:
http://www.army-technology.com/featu...k-helicopters/


Pics:
For Turkey T-129 Kenya/Cambodia Z-9 AH


France/Brazil/Malaysia/Indonesia/Thailand EC 725


Many thanks again to GORDON and LTCol. Stefan Petersen Luftwaffe Reserve and EUROFIGHTER Pilot extraordinaire.

This is it, I'll post pictures in a couple of days. Sorry not here.

Regards,
Pat

DRG March 4th, 2013 10:50 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Thanks Pat. That's all for this year.


Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 14th, 2013 01:39 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
If you have been to the USA and USMC Common Issues Thread by sabresandy then there's nothing new here. Work list item for the next Patch Post.

Here's what I've found just with APKWS II and with the AH-1Z. I will just highlight the issues here as good points were brought up here , but the problems run deeper as I looked into this and I don't know what happened with the AH-1Z as I thought it got into the patch as submitted originally. I'll need to check my crib notes on my hard copy for any differences as submitted. I'll further address this in the Helo Thread with credit to sabrasandy for the "scent" though we differ with Item 1. below.

1. Though APKWS had production runs (This is the date issue I believe.) already over the period as assigned to some UNITS already noted here in this thread (And others I've found.) it was not fielded operationally by the USMC until 3/12 in Afghanistan. See Ref. 1 and understand DID builds the source data into the articles, (Now) verifies status in the right side of the article and lists further and related reading at the bottom of the article. Ref 2 is my "shout out" to Canada.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/
http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2013/...n-afghanistan/


1A. Affected USMC UNITS 172, 173, 192, 257, 502, 503 & 505. they should be armed with the HYDRA 70mm.

2. NAVAIR deemed the AH-1Z operationally ready in 9/10 after completing it's OPEVAL that month. I had submitted a fielding date of 6/11 based on I believe when they were deployed overseas. Ref. 3 & 4 (You'll have to click on Rotor Craft then click on H-1.) however states they became operational in 2/11. So though the game date and my date are within the "swag" there's only one thing to do and that's go to the middle or in this case the operational date of 2/11.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...1w-supercobra/
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm...ome.rotorcraft


2A. Affected USMC UNITS 172, 173, 192 again to 2/11 start
date. Also USMC UNIT 500 should be changed to 3/12 vice 9/12.


Refer to HELO Thread Pg.2 Post #12 from Feb. 13, 2011. Both these issues were at the time part of a much larger discussion as it referenced other Posts back to the APC Thread. God help me if this is a sign how this summer is going to go , this is on my work list now and will be moved to the Helo Thread for follow up.

Concerning the PAVE LOW the information presented is correct.
They flew their last combat mission in 9/08.
http://defensetech.org/2008/10/08/by...-hello-osprey/
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/fac...t.asp?id=12439 Note the armament section at the bottom.
http://www.mh-53pavelow.com/pave_history.html


We have two options here in the USMC OOB... 1) Simply DELETE both MH-53 helos UNITS 313/314. ADD both the SOAR
MH-47E/G helos we fixed and added in the last patch to support both the USMC Spec Op and USN SEALS.
Makes life easier for the player and will allow the AI access to them in the USMC OOB. Also USMC CH-53E UNIT 646 needs to be upgraded to the MH-53M UNIT 314 mark.

2) Just make the date change to UNIT 314, however the CH-53E UNIT 646 will still need to be updated and I can support this change. It will however cause a redundancy issue. They are the same helos only difference lies in designation and names between the USAF, USMC and USN. Option 1) requires a little more work at each end, however it is the more relevant choice.
http://www.marines.com/operating-for...super-stallion

3) The CH-53K Program is still moving along. As you know I was on this from the start, so USMC UNIT 647 will be submitted for a change in it's TI/GSR in the 50/60 range and EW (Maybe.) based on the last updates I've gotten.

This is reminding me of a story about a fisherman and his "can of worms"!?! Still not as bad as those Turkish LEO's from 2/3 years ago!!


Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 20th, 2014 08:57 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
This is coming home as well with the follow up posts (2) I wrote after making this Patch submission as they relate directly to the initial submission. I believe 98% got in; is a good number here. Thanks Don!

Patch Post #1 for 2013/2014
Well it has been another hectic year. The object here is to fix mistakes from last year from my Patch Posts on Pages 11/POST #105 (1) and 13/Post #123 (2) of this thread. Some of this was self inflicted which cast a net of confusion over some other equipment issues. Also I don’t think I’ll accomplish everything I hoped to this year but I promised I would address a couple of issues that were requested by you folks out there and they will be recognized as I get to them. For reasons of time, I will not reinvent the wheel here and will copy from the original posts. That info will be in quotations with the Thread Post noted if not from one of the above. Any items from the above refs will be indicated with either the (1) or (2) as shown above next to the original equipment item requiring action. All DEFPRO references will be removed. This will also show the importance once again in tracking equipment entered with follow up use of references in tracking said equipment to the field such as in A3 and Some Helo News below.

HELOS…
C1. SOUTH AFRICA/ ROOIVALK Mk I /CHANGE/UNITS 895 & 896/START DATE 4/2011 VICE 1/2006/END DATE 1/2020 VICE 11/2009/EW 8 VICE 6/REF UNIT 897/RADIO 92 FOR UNITS 189, 897 & 901 PARITY ISSUE WITHIN DATES FOR ROOIVALK AND ROOIVALK MK1//
(1)
”A1. SOUTH AFRICA/ADD/APR 2011/ROOIVALK Mk I/RESET/ADD/EW 8/TI/GSR 60/FCS +Current factors// The Mk I has undergone significant changes beyond just avionics and engine upgrades that lead to the safety issues that grounded the ROOIVALK for 1 ½ years…”
http://www.dod.mil.za/news/news%2020...20apr11%20.htm
http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and...ivalk-block-1f
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...tional-355117/
http://www.deagel.com/news/South-Afr...000008623.aspx
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/news115257.html

A1. USMC/ADD/JAN 2007/MH-47G CHINOOK/USE USA UNIT 275/RECOMMEND USING SLOT 728 DIRECTLY ABOVE THE SEAL UNITS//
(1)
”A3. USA/USMC/ADD/JAN 2007/MH-47G CHINOOK/USE UNIT 293/C6/P34-50 (Depending on equip.)/Port and Starboard mounted 2xM134 7.62 mm Miniguns just aft of the cockpit & 2xM240G 7.62mm at the last set of windows Rds UKN/ADD Refueling boom to the Starbrd. Side of the nose./Based on date requested with upgrades done to this point TI/GSR 60/EW 8/FC 6/FF 6/STAB. 5 or 6//…The 160th SOAR “Night Stalkers” (Under USASOC.) of Somalia and Bin Laden raid fame provide the bulk of helo operational support to the SEALS, Green Berets and Rangers amongst others….”
Please you know I have been as pro active about the slot issue as anyone to include volunteering to cull the fighters out of OOB’s that are TACAIR heavy. But in this case and the next one below I feel we do the player and AI wrong in not having these birds, they are after all the primary source and means of their operational transport in this case the SEAL’s and other specialized USMC units. Also how many times have we had to address the ALLIES option over the years? With this item we could at least use the machine gun simile on them!?!
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/mil...h47e/index.htm
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/mil...G_overview.pdf
http://www.guncopter.com/mh-47g/
http://www.socom.mil/News/Pages/fina...Paircraft.aspx
http://www.socom.mil/sordac/PEO/Rota...G_Chinook.aspx
http://nightstalkers.americanspecial...ters/mh-47.php
http://www.americanspecialops.com/ph...ranger-sov.php
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mi...dex.php?Page=1

A2. USMC/ADD/JAN 1994-JAN 2010/MH-47E CHINOOK/USE USA UNIT 293/RECOMMEND USING SLOT 727 DIRECTLY ABOVE THE SEAL UNITS//
(1)
“C8. USA/MH-47/UNIT 293/Change name to MH-47E/Change End Date to JAN 2010/ADD to USMC OOB/See A3 above to include refs.//First change to simplify any future info that might cause a change to that particular helo. Second allows for the last couple of helos to be removed from service and prepped for the SLEP (RESET) Program and flight evaluations before being turned over to SOCOM…”
Again for the reasons noted above and also use those refs here to.

A3. MALAYSIA JUN 2013/THAILAND JUN 2015/ADD/EC 725 “SUPER” COUGAR/C5 P26/USE FRENCH UNIT 520//
(1)
“A4. FRANCE JAN 2005/BRAZIL JUN 2012/MAYLAYSIA JUNE 2013/INDONESIA JUN 2014/
THAILAND JUNE 2015/ADD/EC 725 “SUPER” COUGAR/C5 P26/2 x FN MAG 60-30 250/or 1000Rd “Drums”/Optional 2 x 20mm POD mounted GIAT Cannons 180Rds/or 2 x 68mm THALES/or FORGE ZEEBRUGGE 19 Rd Rocket Launchers/TI/GSR 60/EW 8/Advanced composite add on armor is available and is used by the French. Mexico (The largest or next user of the EC 725.) supposedly has it also though not in the game. Malaysia’s are being reported to being equipped in the same manner as the French versions. Adjust armor ratings as you see fit for FRANCE and MAYLASIA/USE FRENCH UNIT 516 AS BASE//Concerning Thailand they have been very good about getting the equipment they have ordered, however, there are mixed reports about whether the contract has actually been signed or not. Based on this information…”
The French, Brazilian and Indonesian UNITS have a Carry 119 as opposed to 126. Is this due to weapons configuration issues? Malaysia seems to have been missed and has ordered more of these helos since last year. In regards to Thailand as noted above we had some concerns here about the contract; it was signed finally in the late spring or early summer after being delayed. I feel comfortable with this deal being good now.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ec725/
http://www.airrecognition.com/index....sk=view&id=331
http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/ref/Missions_174.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/laad_...1_1404116.html.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/n...25-helicopters
http://helihub.com/2012/12/04/royal-...twelve-ec725s/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...copters-04959/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...EC725-for-SAR-
Missions-07542/

C2. USMC/CHANGE/UH-1Y/UNITS 320 & 321/HS RATING TO 3 VICE 0//
(1)
“C5. USMC/UH-1Y/UNITS 320 & 321/CHANGE HS to 3 vice 0 as noted above./UNIT 320 replace 50 cal M2HB with GAU-21 50 cal./UNIT 321 replace HYDRA 70 with APKWS II ASM//The CORPS was “all in” by this time with the APKWS II ASM. See refs 7-10 below concerning GAU-21 50cal with Night Sights.”
As was noted in the intro this was a case of too much going on. This was paired with another similar entry originally directly above (Item C4) “C5”. The TI/GSR issue was corrected for all the UNITS involved here. The HS issue was missed in the “fog of war”, again these are all built the same in airframe and electronics. Concerning the GAU 21 it has been proven both on the range and in combat evaluations to be at least a 1/3 more accurate then the previously and now not used M2HB. Suhiir I believe has this weapon in her USMC OOB. It’s just something to consider for next year at least.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...program-03541/
http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/HD/Chronol...early/2008.htm
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/uh1y-huey/
http://www.naval-technology.com/proj...ty-helicopter/
http://somd.com/news/headlines/2006/4123.shtml
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index..../story_ID/9574
http://www.asdnews.com/news/30989/GA...with_UH-1Y.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...0109-mcn01.htm
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/20...gau21_010410w/
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_50cal-M3M_MG.htm
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=11442
http://www.deagel.com/news/Upgraded-...000009578.aspx
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/
This last ref provides an outdate on the APKWS II ASM with the new Mk 152 warhead that will also be used on the HARRIER and A-10 besides the USMC helos, to be fielded in 2012.
Note: I believe 2013/2014 as of this writing will be better for HARRIER use will back check for next year.

C3. SOUTH AFRICA/ROOIVALK/UNIT 188/CHANGE End Date to NOV 2009/DONE/YES SEE BELOW DONE//
(1)
“C6. SOUTH AFRICA/ROOIVALK/UNITS 189, 190 and 899 - 902/CHANGE End Date to NOV 2009.//This helo is very advanced featuring 4th Gen integrated image intensifier and FLIR systems, TopOwl sight display for integrated weapons system control.” And from the end of the Para…” The only question I have here is should the TI/GSR be improved for the above units? Also note that the last two refs deal with the Non MK I ROOIVALK.”
Well a little teamwork helped here with Don understanding where I was going with this originally without me asking the question; if you will; I was asking. Huh? With time in some cases newer information comes to light or was missed in the beginning. As I’ve noted in the past this was a very, very advanced helo ahead of it’s time. Focus on 4th Gen and my original question at the end. As I said Don knew where I was heading so all the above UNITS had the TI/GSR increased to 50. Except for UNIT 190 because well, it was a empty slot!! Thanks Don!!
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...-ah2-rooivalk/
http://www.military-today.com/helico...2_rooivalk.htm

NEW ITEMS…
A4. IRAQ/Mi-35M/ADD/JAN 2014/USE RUSSIAN UNIT 943 with weapons variations as you see fit//
A5. BRAZIL/Mi-35M/ADD/APR 2010/USE RUSSIAN UNIT 943 with weapons variations as you see fit//
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...mi-35m-hind-e/
A6. IRAQ/Mi-28NE/ADD/JAN 2014/USE RUSSIAN UNITS 370-373//
These will share the refs below. This deal was in the making for about two years now and I have been tracking it since Iraq approached the U.S. about buying the APACHE AH-64D and later “rumors” surfaced of interest in the GUARDIAN AH-64E. Apparently due to the instability within Iraq and for security issues related to the technology and other factors the deal never really got done. So Iraq turned to Russia which in trying to expand it’s influence again into the Middle East. A deal was struck in 2012 and almost came apart in early 2013 amid charges of corruption. This issue was resolved early this past summer. There was articles saying the training cycle was disrupted and deliveries were started in 10/2013 and will be completed by the end of this year for 40 of the above helos. I’m holding off on the Ka-52 ALLIGATOR and PANTSIR-S1 AA Systems; until further information becomes available on delivery dates.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...m_0306131.html
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131...-Contract.html
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131...-Gunships.html
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...0551383926479/
http://www.janes.com/article/29741/i...35-helicopters
http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/201...n-helicopters/
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56


Well that went alright…I hope!?! And no Helo issues were noted on the second Patch Post from last year.

Some Helo news…
Have I mentioned the importance of following up before…I guess it can get old but…
From last year in the second Patch Post concerning the GUARDIAN AH-64E; Taiwan is on track as submitted. The second batch should have or shortly will arrive by this writing.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...-batch-from-us


Regards,
Pat
December 4, 2013

From Posts #155 & #156...

Don,
Concerning the IRAQI Helos (A4 & A6), there was no reported disruption in the training during the temporary breakdown of the deal as discussed. I didn't catch the wording error when I realized that Brazils OOB didn't have the Mi-35M. I could've sworn it was in the OOB when it was orginally discussed and submitted ~3 years ago and I checked it I thought as being there. Mad scramble for the ref and submission insued "before the (edit) clock ran out" on the matter.

Regards,
Pat

Don,
Clock ran out while researching the BRAZIL HIND. It's in there as properly local named AN-2 SABRA UNIT 903. However it should be upgraded and for IRAQ added using the RUSSIAN UNIT 943 as just submitted. Have articles that were posted in the HELO Thread saying Russia was going to buy and or update it's current fleet of Mi-24 HIND's based on the fact the Mi-35M was more advanced.
http://airheadsfly.com/tag/russian-helicopters/feed/
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/hind/
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...opters-356827/
http://mymodelplanes.wordpress.com/2...ce-for-russia/ See bottom as reported by avaitionweek.com
http://www.sldinfo.com/russian-air-p...nsive-buildup/

Bought 40 of them.

Back to bed, new days off are throwing me off my game here.

Regards,
Pat

It's how the work goes sometimes. You start seeing things that both are and aren't there.

Suhiir if you see this some of the answers you seek are in this post and POSTS 26 & 28 before this one. Just don't get "cheap" on me. ;)

One more to get home! :wave:

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir May 21st, 2014 02:41 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
The V8.0 USMC OOB has:
##############################
Unit#314 MH-47E Chinook 01/1995-01/2010 - 2xM134 Gat, Vis=40 FC=5 RF=5 Stab=4
Unit#316 MH-47G Chinook 01/2008-12/2020 - 2xM134 Gat 2xM240, Vis=60 FC=6 RF=6 Stab=6

So just need to change Unit#316 to 01/2007-12/2020 and FC=8
##############################
Unit#649 MV-22B Osprey 03/2006-12/2020 - 1xM2 HMG, Vis=15
Unit#650 MV-22B+ Osprey 01/2009-12/2020 - 1xM134 Gat 1xM2 HMG, Vis=40

Didn't include the MMG version because it's only around for a couple years and my "rule of thumb" is - If it only exists for less then 3 years don't include it else the OOB will swell like a balloon.

The best info I can find indicates they only mount the M134 if they know they're going into a Hot LZ (since it reduces cargo capacity and blocks the Hell Hole (which is used to rig cargo slings)
##############################
Unit#320 UH-1Y Gunship 09/2008-12/2020 - 2xGAU-19 1xAPKWS 1xGAU-21, Vis=40, Armor=3
Unit#321 UH-1Y Gunship 09/2008-12/2020 - 2xM134 1xAPKWS 1xGAU-21, Vis=40, Armor=3
Unit#322 UH-1Y Gunship 09/2008-12/2020 - 2xM134 1xAPKWS 1xGAU-21, Vis=30, Armor=3
Unit#323 UH-1Y Venom 09/2008-12/2020 - 1xMMG, Vis=15, Armor=2 (troop carrier version)
Unit#883 UH-1Y Venom 09/2008-12/2020 - 2xGAU-21, Vis=60, Armor=2 (observer version)
##############################
Cheap?
I may be a Harlot but never a cheap one!

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 23rd, 2014 02:10 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Suhiir,
I don't know what happened here but know after every patch gets released I go back to see what made it and how the numbers fell as I requested them on my inputs. The USA MH-47G looked correct to me two years ago but now I'm not so sure as it looks all wrong to me now which affects the USMC one as well. My only note I made was to address this helo for the USMC the following year, which we know has be done. They should be the same in both OOBs. Now I have work to do. Let's focus on the USMC MH-47G as it will be the correct representative version for both. I'll be split screen between USA UNIT 275 and USMC UNIT 316 to give you the correct numbers. I also did some checks against the MH-47E as well i.e. Cost etc. Which ever unit is correct is your guide for the wrong one to fix. Ready here I go...
1. START DATE: USA 1/2007 is correct. USMC 10/2008 is wrong.
2. END DATE: USA 1/2020 is wrong. USMC is 12/2020 is correct.
3. COST: USA 271 correct. USMC 311 is wrong.
4. CREW: Both USA and USMC are wrong. Should be 6 /two pilots/1 crew chief/4 gunners. Note: Originally it was planned that only three MGs would be required and 5 crew it would be changed by time it was fielded to current configuration.
5. CARRY: USA 244 is correct. USMC 239 is wrong.
6. RADIO: Both USA and USMC are @ 91. Is 92 max? And would it make any difference? If not leave it.
7. STEEL HF: USA 12 is wrong. USMC 14 is correct.
8. STEEL HS: USA 0 is wrong. USMC 2 is correct.
9. THE BONUS: The Starbrd. side refueling boom would be GREAT!! That's what separates these from ALL standard non-SOCOM Chinook helos world wide. Of course this would apply to the MH-47E as well.

Refer to Post #26 Item A3 of this thread.

I need to hit the rack good night!

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir May 23rd, 2014 07:38 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Pat,

Made corrections indicated, couple FYI notes.
3. Cost is automatically calculated when the routine is run (which it should be after any change in armament, speed, armor, etc.)
6. Radio, the 2nd digit (either 0, 1, 2, or 3 ... NEVER higher) is what's known as the "Rarity Code" 0=Average, 1=Rare, 2=Common, 3=Vary rare AI will never purchase.
9. Need a pic of a SOCOM bird for inclusion in the library.

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 24th, 2014 02:49 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Suhiir,
1. The cost thing is weird but, OK for the same helo I guess?!?
2. Radio issue was useful in preventing me from asking that question again. :doh:
3. Now about those pictures...
A. First a look at the capabilities that are unique to the CHINOOK in general, it's the only known helo that can operate in the fashion shown below and I'll show it's done as well in the last picture in this section. That team will ride that raft right into the helo in the first pic.
Attachment 12993 Attachment 12994
Attachment 12995

Any real physical difference on the outside it's what's mostly on the inside with a new cockpit and updated electronics suite where the difference lies between the MH-47E and MH-47G which I think we did a pretty good job of getting done for each bird in the game. Note the following: Centerline under the cockpit you'll see the advanced FLIR System on the port side you'll see the terrain mapping/targeting system sort of like the LITENING Pod etc. carried on jets and finally the refueling boom that's unique to these SOCOM birds. First the MH-47E then the MH-47G L to R.
Attachment 12996 Attachment 12997


Time for bed-good night!

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 24th, 2014 03:21 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
3 Attachment(s)
Additional pics here as I forgot how to trick the system on uploading more pictures.
Standard but latest model CH-47F for comparison:
Attachment 12999
Another MH-47G:
Attachment 13000
And finally to show a mid air refueling op of in this case a MH-47E for FYI only:
Attachment 13001

As a side note the SOCOM birds are more "bulbous" on the bottom to allow for more fuel capacity and of course extended range as a result.

Regards,
Pat

scorpio_rocks May 24th, 2014 06:08 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Is this any good?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...ps692c0337.png

Suhiir May 24th, 2014 06:16 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Looks good to me scorpio_rocks.
Plan to do a dark grey/black night-ops version?

scorpio_rocks May 24th, 2014 08:25 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 824845)
Looks good to me scorpio_rocks.
Plan to do a dark grey/black night-ops version?

More than happy to :) give me a day or two

scorpio_rocks May 24th, 2014 09:36 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
3 Attachment(s)
Quick try editting existing "grey" Chinook:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...ps942c7959.png

Think my "talent" will run out trying a "Black" version but will give it a go

For others with more skill than I here is a nice top down drawing i found:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...ps9ab27897.jpg

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 18th, 2014 02:42 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
There was some conversation about the following items...
1. The CH-53K (As of 5/14/2014 is now the “King Stallion”) has been delayed three years past the 2016 date I had earlier. It will now not reach Initial Operational Capability (IOC) until JAN 2019. Any delay (And funding is a top issue here thanks partly to the F-35C.) over the next couple of years and it'll be getting cut from the OOB.

2. As a reminder the CH-53D was retired on 2/10/2012; I had reported on this in this Thread and one other at the time. I never submitted it as an oversight on my part due to my issues over the last couple of years.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-01724/

Reminder to all this sight has links built into the article and sources at the bottom.

3. I am now the "player" I'm playing as the USMC and am running an air assault against the enemies FH units that have been spotted, what arty I have is supporting my troops in another sector that's under attack and those units are supporting the attack. The air assault is my only option so with a CH-53E
with troops assigned to it to include snipers and a couple of AT teams. We lift off terrain masking as best I can. I know the true capabilities of these birds but forget what the game setting is for the CH-53E and we push on. The terrain is good but all of a sudden my team is taking fire but can't see from where it's coming from but, I should. My team doesn't make it I lose a bunch of Marines to include those sniper and AT teams. The battle becomes a draw. I go and check the CH-53E stats in my happy mood and the TI/GSR is 1/2 of what it should be-why?
I have to ask...
1. How much more would have it cost to increase the TI/GSR from 20 (I believe.) to 40 vs. the 2 squads, 2 sniper teams and 2 AT teams I just lost. Half of which were "core" units. And let's not forget the bird in this case that might not have got to the LZ but got shot down when it shouldn't have. You can substitute the CH-53K for this scenario as well.

2. The TI/GSR should be 40 for the CH-53E (I have to check but I believe the "E" was upgraded ~2008/2010 timeframe pending the CH-53D retirement and early delays in the CH-53K program.) and 50 for the CH-53K. I posted this in this thread I believe in here somewhere, but it's been posted I'm sure. Again this was an oversight as noted above, this was on my work list from two years ago after checking my files.

3. To support the above look at Post #26 Items A2, A4, A6 and C1. In order and all in the game but for Cambodia with current TI/GSR values; PUMA HC2 50, SUPER COUGAR 60 (This a more specialized bird.), and Mi-17V5 50 (Russian version Mi-8 also at 50.). That's alot of countries and Cambodia will get theirs when the "shop reopens for business". Also Post #29 Item A3 added another SUPER COUGAR this year.

I pushed to get the Tanks and certain APCs increased it took a couple of years, but I provided Don with the right data to do so. In fact where I gave him the option based on the info he went with the higher TI/GSR. Most players will gladly pay more and as I've noted elsewhere so will the AI.

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir June 18th, 2014 03:56 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 825077)
1. The CH-53K ... is now the “King Stallion” ... Initial Operational Capability (IOC) until JAN 2019.

2. ... CH-53D was retired on 2/10/2012

You just had to post this later the same day I released an OOB revision didn't you?
*mutters about f-ing squids a while*

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 825077)
... The terrain is good but all of a sudden my team is taking fire but can't see from where it's coming from but, I should. My team doesn't make it I lose a bunch of Marines to include those sniper and AT teams. The battle becomes a draw. I go and check the CH-53E stats in my happy mood and the TI/GSR is 1/2 of what it should be-why?

Par for the course.
You will NEVER "see" opposition infantry until they fire on you (and often not even then) at a range of 1-2 hexes, pretty much guaranteeing a hit on their part.
ALWAYS send a well armored attack helo first to "clear the way" for troop carriers.

No TI was a design decision in order to try to keep the unit cost reasonable as this is a transport not attack helo, giving it TI would increase the per unit cost 23%.
AND would have zero effect on the oppositions ability to "ambush" it at 1-2 hexes.

shahadi June 18th, 2014 01:22 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Z-key baby, keep your units close to bring effective suppression. Then the enemy units will appear plain as day to your guys.

Piggy back on what Shuiir says, yeah my transport helos always roll with attack helos.

So much for "God view" eh?

FASTBOAT TOUGH August 11th, 2014 05:50 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Well I'll come back to those last couple of posts at a later date, but Don would insist I play nice and those folks put in a more than "honest days" work out. But I was looking in on one of my go to let's start the ball rolling sites and came across this AH that it's rotor blade configuration is still beyond what's flying now as taken from the ref. "During flight most of the engine power went to the pusher propeller, and only 20-25% of power was delivered to the main rotor. This gave a top speed of about 390 km/h and ability to reach such speed at extremely low altitudes. Currently such design and is still used only on experimental helicopters.". That represents simply a highly efficient helo. And it flew (10 prototypes were ordered from Lockheed Martin.) in 1967!!
http://www.military-today.com/helico...6_cheyenne.htm
Attachment 13088

Attachment 13089

Don't know about you but the cockpit area sorta reminds me of the OV-10D BRONCO.

I stated years ago the USA would get back into the guided 70mm rocket business after dropping it and "my" USN being smart enough to continue funding it under the APKWS-II Program which we know has proved itself very successfully in combat. But it has to have a catchy name so the USA is calling it the TALON. I believe it might also carry a slightly larger warhead to give a better anti-armor capability though I can't remember for sure from earlier readings but not being fielded or submitted so that can wait. It should be operational soon but, here's an update as I've been tracking it's development.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...copter-4332429

Might as well do it now; to address the last set of responses I would respectfully recommend from the Main Forum...Helicopter Armor Thread Posts #35 & #44. The rest will be done by PM.

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir August 11th, 2014 08:52 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Well according to what I see the Talon is apparently the APKWS-III.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmABY-katwg
http://optronique.net/defense/wp-con..._datasheet.pdf

And features interchangeable warheads (no info on them).

FASTBOAT TOUGH August 11th, 2014 10:08 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Ah but look what the table on the left of ref. 2 says under "Benefits" Item #3. The USN didn't name it but what it is APKWS-II. Raytheon is saying the benefit of TALON is better then APKWS-II. As I've stated the USA dropped the program years ago and the USN picked up the ball and ran with it without a program name change.
Also from ref. 2 "This LGR is a precision weapon that exceeds the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System II (APKWS II) specifications. It fills the critical operational capability gap between unguided rockets and guided heavy anti-tank missiles." - on TALON.
And as I posted the TALON as per your refs it is indeed a RAYTHEON product. But also as I've posted for years and recently on APKWS-II it is a BAE product.
But to be sure so I'm not confused... ;)
http://www.baesystems.com/product/BA...3Dhabtfjjbj_89

And nothing said about the AH-56 how :(.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Suhiir August 12th, 2014 02:49 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Good point on Raytheon vs BAE, that's probably the major difference between Talon and APKWS-II.
No doubt there are other differences but they're probably insignificant in WinSPMBT terms.

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 30th, 2014 01:47 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Nothing new here, transferred from the below Thread for my own purposes.
V/R
Pat


Fallout Re: Helicopter armor
Things not talked about...
1. Using helos like tanks you need to terrain mask them where you can. I'm willing to bet a 1/3 of the players go charging in. The assault aspect is more Cold War then anything where NATO had a distinct disadvantage in numbers. More finesse is needed in the modern battlefield.

2. Like on map arty, don't hover or stay in the same area more then a couple of turns. If you do you deserve what you get...shot down or damaged normally. And to follow through, your arty will come under fire normally by mortars first and the big guns next for the same reason. AI hates on map arty.

3. To the main topic as started...Look-down TI/GSR is much more effective than "look at" TI/GSR. Height of eye is a huge advantage. In my world if I'm moving my helo in a "search mode" (Segments of say 6-10 hexes.) where I suspect enemy are, and it comes upon the enemy unit(s), especially if moving, the helo should have the advantage. It is after all actively seeking contact and the "finger is on the trigger". If you fly across the battlefield then as is in the game your both in that "ah poop" mode as is now.

4. Helos for about the last 20yrs. or so have more redundant systems on board, also more recently within the last maybe ten years your seeing these systems protected by armor as well. Mi-35is protected against 35mm or 37mm rounds the AH-1Z is protected against 23mm rounds. Transport helos have add on armor plating added when operating in combat zones (Belly area.) plus what I've already noted above.

5. Defensively...They are quieter, faster and more maneuverable, have as much EW as a jet in many cases with full defensive suites to include chaff and flares such as "Angel Fire" this includes transports. Don't believe me, I'll provide all the pics you want upon request of course.

6. I'm not asking to see my helo going spinning around the screen, but crew survivability has always been an issue with me here. All helo pilots learn to auto-rotate their birds and generally can safely land them. In urban or mountainous terrain the odds go down significantly however, this is better then the zero chance they have now for crews and passengers, though not helos the point can still be made, a bridge in France comes to mind right now known as "Pegasus" if you'd read the history it would support my point here. This is to my mind a major issue, truth is many crews live to fly another day and troops survive to fight. The crew issue goes to experience level of crews directly not unlike tank crews in general.

7. Attack Helos: Save slots and alot them as in real life. I can think of at least 10-15 countries this can be applied. You want them playing the "big boys" then you should pay for them as the real "big boys" use them-in pairs. Developed countries since Vietnam have flown attack helos in pairs to be mutual supporting for over-watch and targeting purposes. What's to be gained besides saving some slots? Well maybe the player will take better care of them if it costs more to use them. And for the player (And AI.) well after they pay for them they can still use them how ever they want. Not much downside if you think about it. But if you pay attention to the AI's general use of Attack Helos, it tends to keep them paired and mutually supporting each, based on my years of playing against the AI.

8. RTB part of the game. Some minor tweaking before they do it maybe. Just "freezing" and running due to suppression not so sure. I think from what I've read and just in general as a thought better to go home with empty (Or near empty.) weapons racks. As the game operates now though it seems more experienced crews don't RTB as soon as less experienced crews. Is this a faulty observation on my part?

9. Finally they are not invincible. A hit to the tail rotor that causes damage to it, you won't be in the air long, and it will be harder to auto-rotate down. It is for instance felt that the crew of "Super Six" could've survived the RPG hit they took but what killed them was the crash site in a narrow alley and wall they ended up hitting.

Auto rotation can be accomplished at altitude ref. provided on technique and video shows a S-92 Mil. transport at max. payload weight doing it.
http://helicopterflight.net/autorotation.htm
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...7400CD7C6DFA5E


My thoughts for what their worth.

Regards,
Pat
Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; 01-12-14 at 03:23 AM..

Suhiir September 30th, 2014 02:11 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
1. Even in the Cold War only the suicidal charged in. Think Vietnam, they flew high getting to the LZ area because the NVA/VC AA was virtually nonexistent then low as low as possible near the LZ.

6. No way the current game can model crew survivability for helos.

7. ALWAYS buy Attack Helo's in pairs. Use placed well back to draw fire while the other waits till it's safe to pop-up and fire. When one is out of ammo swap roles.

8. Again the current game model won't allow damaged helos to do anything but run for home.

PvtJoker October 2nd, 2014 05:39 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 826765)
8. Again the current game model won't allow damaged helos to do anything but run for home.

Which is pretty much what they will do in real life, as shown by the (in)famous incident during OIF. Any more than light damage and an attack helo is a mission kill. The same incident also showed what knowledgeable people already knew: even modern attack helos can be damaged by rifle caliber fire. The tail rotor is the most obvious vulnerability, but it's not the only one (if it was, everybody would be using Kamov style dual main rotors).

Basically, when marketing material says that an attack helo is protected against caliber X projectiles, it means that the armored areas can withstand a couple of hits by said caliber HE shells (or API in case of =< 14.5mm machine guns) and the aircraft can still fly home. It does NOT mean AFV style protection, which means that you can fire a large number of rounds at the vehicle and expect the armor to stop them all no problems.

gila October 2nd, 2014 12:00 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 826765)
8. Again the current game model won't allow damaged helos to do anything but run for home.

Which is a very good reason to never buy them,Costly AT Helos rarely survive the battle, game wise an unwise purchase,but those into them can get some early kills then the man pads or stray mmg get them retreating or knocked down:shock:

Mobhack October 2nd, 2014 01:00 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gila (Post 826797)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 826765)
8. Again the current game model won't allow damaged helos to do anything but run for home.

Which is a very good reason to never buy them,Costly AT Helos rarely survive the battle, game wise an unwise purchase,but those into them can get some early kills then the man pads or stray mmg get them retreating or knocked down:shock:

Until you have large areas to cover on big maps. Not much cop on postage stamp battlefields, invaluable as the battlespace expands.

"Attack" helos are simply extremely fast tank destroyers that can relocate within your own side of the map as desired, and return to the ammo park to resupply tout suite. Think of the WW2 M18 hellcat, but turbocharged. Or naval battle cruisers - can dish it out but cannot take it.

What they aren't good for is going beyond your own front line, unless the opponent is primitive - and even then its a bit of a gamble if you aren't super cautious and don't have scout choppers to advance along the proposed route.

So stay well back in your zone, look for AAA weapons and kill those with other means (while taking cover yourself) if they show themselves (A shedload of arty usually does that trick).

If there is no credible enemy AAA - then you can it up high and see for miles while dominating the battlefield.

If the enemy is infantry-based then scout choppers with decent (TI) vision are better. Use to spot for the shedloads of arty you brought along - scout choppers are arty spotters.

Transport helos are brilliant for relocating leg infantry sideways in your own zone, on a large map, using terrain masking. But again any kamikaze charge into the enemy's rear can end in tears. Transport helos are super-fast trucks, is all.


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