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-   -   Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42344)

Wrana February 19th, 2009 08:51 PM

Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
Greetings to all!
There was a question during the discussion on the last CBM version, for which I would now like to get more information.
The Fall Bears. To me and some others they look like the least useful among Elemental Spirits: the Lions are strong with fire aura, the Wolves are good flankers with Chill and the Hawks fly!
I also list here some of the options to strengthen them I've come with.
What are your opinions (with comments on your choice, if possible)?

1. They are perfectly fine as they are;
2. They would be good enough if made cheaper (QuantumMech's suggestion iirc);
3. They should get better stats (hit points, protection, strength would be thematic);
4. They should be berserks as befits Bears;
5. They should get regeneration;
6. They should get reinvigoration;
7. They shoulf get recuperation (don't think this will really change anything, but still);
- Several of the above.
8. Nothing will really help them - they are absolutely useless

Tifone February 19th, 2009 08:58 PM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
I'm between 1 and 4. But even 3 seems an appropriate (but cheap) solution.

lch February 19th, 2009 09:02 PM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
Trample would be thematic for earth. A little unusual for bears though.

rdonj February 19th, 2009 09:08 PM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
2. Maybe
3. No
4. Maybe
5. No
6. No
7. Maybe, but doesn't really make sense
8. No way!

The only solution I really like is making them cheaper. They're still quite useful as they are, but being cheaper would make them more available. Wouldn't berserk actually be almost negative? They already have ridiculously high morale, so all berserking would do is make them suicide themselves in a battle that's already lost.

AdmiralZhao February 19th, 2009 09:33 PM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
I'd say give them an extra attack, a bear hug. It would have a low attack value, but would do armor-piercing damage + a likely affliction, like the Koppo's bone breaking strike.

JimMorrison February 19th, 2009 10:26 PM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lch (Post 675545)
Trample would be thematic for earth. A little unusual for bears though.

I was thinking just that, actually. In CBM I didn't feel the Bears were too bad, as they are fairly economical in gem/unit cost, they have very high HP, and they are Ethereal, which can cause conventional armies with little-no mage backup quite a lot of problems.

If not Trample, then I am too lazy to look atm, do they have 3 attacks? If they had Bite, Claw, Claw they would have some good offensive punch to go with their physical might.

If they had a high damage, AOE 1, Pounce attack, that could be neat too - if it can be flagged as usable once per combat, like a Lance?

If all else fails, a high Berserk value could be fun enough, I suppose. :p

vfb February 19th, 2009 10:54 PM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
They aren't that useful because they are large, so they are hard to buff (to make up for their 0-prot and slow movement).

I think they could be made faster. Bears should be at least as fast as mounted cavalry. And these are magic bears!

Give them Claw Claw Bite too, and crank up Attack just a point or two.

Right now I only summon these if I get a conj discount.

LoloMo February 20th, 2009 12:25 AM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
Another possibility would be to increase the number of bears summoned per casting, but keep the gems per bear cost the same. That way, it can be used as an emergency summon even if it's not cheap.

chrispedersen February 20th, 2009 02:43 AM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
I think the intent behind the bears is as blockers. I'm not opposed to changing them, I just don't see it as urgent.

JimMorrison February 20th, 2009 04:16 AM

Re: Fall Bears usefullness (mostly CBM)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen (Post 675593)
I think the intent behind the bears is as blockers. I'm not opposed to changing them, I just don't see it as urgent.

In such a case, if the general feeling is that they still need a little improvement, I'd give them decent protection to stack with their Ethereality (Kithaironic Lions are 17prot?), and maybe bump MR a couple of points. Then they don't kill stuff any faster, but they're better at linebacking.


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