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-   -   Helo News game related. (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46245)

whdonnelly October 2nd, 2014 01:48 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Not sure speed is everything, but there is (or will be, maybe)this

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the...51839/+barrett

Suhiir October 4th, 2014 01:07 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
I play with large maps because I like some maneuver in my battles (by myself and the AI) and I like to have 3-4 turns before I run into the opposition (and the naps are still small enough AI infantry forces get to the battle ... admittedly usually after most of their armor/APCs are dead, but they do take part). I also set the AI NON-tank heavy because I prefer more realistic force compositions. Yeah, at a key point armor should, and would, be concentrated to make a break thru, but I'm not playing scenarios where I'm representing a small part of a MUCH larger battle.

I find that a pair of scout and two pair of attack helos are invaluable, but then I also buy a LOT less armor then most folks (one platoon per battalion sized MEU) and an Attack helo is comparable to a tank in terms of point cost. So helos make up for my lack of tanks. This is of course problematic vs higher-tech opponents (with VIRSS and to an extent reactive "armor") but that's why I always buy ammo resupply units.

I also use transport helos regularly (tho I'll admit I've upgraded all but the very early (pre 1960s) models to 1 armor) and find it useful to drop an infantry company on, or near, some hard to reach bit of terrain.

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 21st, 2014 01:15 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
The next two are updates as well. For the first on the APKWS II, I have already taken for action of adding to the Jets and Planes list the Jordanian gunships and the helos adding the TIGER AH's with the new rocket pods (Note: These are the Forges de Zeebrugge’s FZ90 pods already in the game on the French + others we added a couple of years ago.) mounted.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/

The next will precipitate a change also for the Gulf States OOB (In this regard for the UAE.) to not only add the TALON but I'm willing to bet the APACHES as well. That's right, the TALON will go to the UAE before the USA gets them. The UAE is a co-developer of the TALON rocket.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...entries-03157/

I'll be outta here for a week to reward for my "Dr./Nurse" CINCLANTHOME during my recovery and 28 years of putting up with my cra...poop ;). See you guys have been lucky it's ONLY been almost 7 years for you...and I heard that :rolleyes:!!
Have a great week/weekend!!

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 4th, 2014 08:10 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
For a friend, just one of many but better than most...
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/uh1y-huey/

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir November 4th, 2014 09:42 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
I can find references to the USAF getting the UH-1N in May 1971. But nothing to indicate the USMC got them earlier then 1973.

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 9th, 2014 01:26 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Got to get ready for work...but these should support 1971 and retirement of the UH-1N/HH-1N (USN version.). The retirement matches the USMC AVPLAN 2030 I recently posted in the Jets Thread.
http://www.janes.com/article/42729/u...m-usmc-service
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm...8-813E90688F26


Regards,
Pat

Suhiir November 9th, 2014 07:24 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Still can't find anything indicating when the USMC got the UH-1N, but I'll go with 01/1972.

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 10th, 2014 01:01 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
I know where to go, you'll have seen the ref before (LAV-AD?) but the website has changed. I'll see if I can recover it and still access it.

Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 10th, 2014 02:14 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
As I thought...I've used the following in the past but MCU was getting ready to reorganize their library and re-digitalize their data as well. You might recognize the format as I believe I used this data for the LAV-AD when "correcting" it (Check the Fastboat Patch/or SPAA Threads. However the link might be dead as stated above.)
Click on 1982 see January 13th where it's noting the first F/A HORNET is being assembled you'll find nuggets concerning equipment etc. on this page by year throughout. This was one of my best resources (AV-8 comes to mind now as well.) when concerning my research on USMC equipment.
https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivi...hronology.aspx
I'm toast now I have other resources to check on concerning the UH-1N. HOPEFULLY this won't turn into a "French 105mm campaign" :eek: one just never knows :rolleyes: - GOOD NIGHT!!

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir November 10th, 2014 04:22 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Well this is what I've found.
Since the first deliveries were apparently sometime in 1971 I'll stick to the 01/1972 operational deployment date since I can't find any definitive information.

"211 UH-1N ( Bell 212 ) were ordered for USMC service in late 1960s. Six ( plus 2 conversions ) were for presidential use (Marine One) as VH-1N and are listed separately. Many were later converted to HH-1N and turned over to US Navy as land based rescue/utility machines.
Deliveries of the twin huey (HH/UH-1N) to US Navy/USMC began in 1971. The last, and newest, UH-1N Iroquois was delivered in January 1979."

"Originating from a 1955 U.S. Army contract for a medical evacuation helicopter, the first Navy/Marine Corps Iroquois variant, the UH-1E, was first procured in 1964. Deliveries of the current version, the HH/UH-1N, began in 1971."

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 10th, 2014 06:30 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
According to the next the first unit was manned in June 1971 and stood up by 1 July. You're in the "swag" even Oct. 1971 would work based on previous HUEY flying/maintenance experience. More an issue for the mechanics than pilots in switching to the twin turbo engines. This would be up to you-just wanted to finish what I started.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ES4...ter%3F&f=false

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir November 10th, 2014 09:58 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
That book reference was just what I needed ... definitive dates!
Yeah, would have taken till October to get enough of them and get folks up to speed.

FASTBOAT TOUGH May 4th, 2016 04:19 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
During the time of my "problems" I've had some time to think about things in particular of helos within the game and how I've submitted them. Combining game and real life realities and limitations, I've been wrong in some of my past submissions, there has to be some "ascendancy" here driven by the fact that a country is not going to sell it's top equipment with if you will "with its full kit" currently the AH-64E GUARDIAN enjoys a TI/GSR of 60 which is game limited and fine for the U.S. it's their/our "baby" but with the possible exception of the UK, for TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA definitely not especially given the "neighborhood" they'd be operating in the same would be true for INDIA as well who's the newest customer to receive this helicopter and the following ref. shows what system (FCS Radar) they've approved to get which is making my point for me.
http://www.janes.com/article/59908/a...rs-for-apaches

That radar was on the AH-64D LONGBOW which in the USA is/has already started being converted to the AH-64E GUARDIAN. This (game) can't be just about parity without a dose of reality to temper it. Countries have advantages and disadvantages and are we not paying for that when you buy/choose a certain piece of equipment?

In my mind right now U.S. stays at 60, UK 55 and the rest 50 TI/GSR which would eventually in POLAND as well once their program funding issues are resolved. The current USA version is already in a BLOCK III configuration.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...-signed-02480/
http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/A...e-Longbow.html
http://copevents.pmi.org/pmosymposiu...l.pdf?sfvrsn=2


I'm not however saying the U.S. "owns the block" Russia, Germany/France, Italy, Israel (That has a very long history of buying equipment and improving them on their own.) and South Africa (Yes the ROOIVALK when it first appeared it was considered for a while the most advanced helo in it's class. After being taken out of operational service for 18 months the much improved version the ROOIVALK MK1 (Game entered.) still ranks among the best flying now.) the last two countries being the "David's amongest the Goliath's". Original ROOIVALK...
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...-ah2-rooivalk/

Not much on specifics on the MK1 either just maybe SADF doesn't what to talk about it much beyond the "generalities" of that helo. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 1st, 2016 02:19 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Well this really again supports what I wrote in the above Post and answers as well which FCS the South Koreans would/will be getting for their APACHE GUARDIAN AH-64E helicopters. Like India, they'll also be receiving the LONGBOW system.

I would suspect this is how it'll play out for the present and further, other foreign buyers down the road in regards to the FCS and with the EW rating possible reduction.
http://www.janes.com/article/63316/b...sales-to-korea.

Tonight I'm beat, so I'll think take care.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

IronDuke99 September 6th, 2016 03:55 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
The most likely nation to have top level US kit with all bells and whistles is UK (and sometimes Israel)?

I know there are a lot of backroom negotiations going on regarding F35 and core computer codes, between the US (and Lockheed Martin) and the UK.

UK being the only first tier partner in the aircraft understandably want the full code for modification and service reasons. The USA (actually mainly LM) are reluctant to pass it along for reasons that seem far more related to potential profit than security.

Suhiir September 6th, 2016 06:22 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Gotta love the Military-Industrial complex!

scorpio_rocks September 6th, 2016 06:51 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronDuke99 (Post 835363)
The most likely nation to have top level US kit with all bells and whistles is UK (and sometimes Israel)?

I know there are a lot of backroom negotiations going on regarding F35 and core computer codes, between the US (and Lockheed Martin) and the UK.

UK being the only first tier partner in the aircraft understandably want the full code for modification and service reasons. The USA (actually mainly LM) are reluctant to pass it along for reasons that seem far more related to potential profit than security.

Seems a bit galling when they have allowed Israel access to the code and helped IAI and Elbit to develop Israel's own electronic warfare, missile guidance systems and helmet mounted displays for the F-35I.

IronDuke99 September 7th, 2016 10:27 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks (Post 835372)
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronDuke99 (Post 835363)
The most likely nation to have top level US kit with all bells and whistles is UK (and sometimes Israel)?

I know there are a lot of backroom negotiations going on regarding F35 and core computer codes, between the US (and Lockheed Martin) and the UK.

UK being the only first tier partner in the aircraft understandably want the full code for modification and service reasons. The USA (actually mainly LM) are reluctant to pass it along for reasons that seem far more related to potential profit than security.

Seems a bit galling when they have allowed Israel access to the code and helped IAI and Elbit to develop Israel's own electronic warfare, missile guidance systems and helmet mounted displays for the F-35I.

Israel has a strong political lobby in the US that the UK, and other nations, lack.

On the F35 I suspect UK will get most, at least, of what it wants, if only because the two large new UK carriers, that depend on F35, are going to be important assets in a world with constrained numbers of US Carriers and an expansionist China set on getting a blue water navy and becoming a important carrier player.

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 16th, 2017 04:18 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
4 Attachment(s)
Well I've been keeping an eye on this issue for quite sometime now. To be clear except for some the National Guard might (Older model OH-58 KIOWA A/C) have, the OH-58D KIOWA is the current version flown by both the USA and National Guard. Based on the following refs. The USA will officially retire them when the 1st Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment of the 82nd Airborne Division returns to Fort Bragg N.C. probably in June 2017 as these types of rotations are GENERALLY one year unaccompanied tours.
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort...korea-1.446206

They are currently involved in an exercise in South Korea which more then likely has been extended due to N. Koreas very recent ICBM missiles launches (Attempts).
https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific...korea-1.450886

So where does that leave us? Well the OH-58D for the USA again will be retired as noted above by JUNE 2017 at the latest I would suspect. The National Guard will continue to fly the OH-58D and receive some from the USA as well, this to meet their combat requirements, more on that below. Others will be put into storage and sold off to foreign countries as has already happened.

So Greece again as I noted with the F-16V could do worse as again the OH-58D KIOWA has seen some upgrades.

Ah but everyone is concerned about what's happening with the OH-58D, can the AH-64E GUARDIAN/or AH-64D LONGBOW handle the interim scouting mission (Yes the 64E especially.) yes they can and finally what will the future be? Well not to sound "all doom and gloom" it won't matter because game wise we'll never see it by 2025.

Why would I bring this up? Because nobody is talking about the OH-58F which became operational in 2013. The problem is the USA has them however not in enough numbers to cover the USA requirements to fulfill the mission, ergo back to the AH-64D/E to fill the gap. A quote from the first ref. below it. The "emboldening" is mine...

"In its FY 2015 Budget, the Army decided to retire all Kiowa Warrior A, C and D models. It is unknown whether it will also retire already upgraded OH-58F models." So far nothing is out there to say they are going to officially. If it stays that way the OH-58F upgrade was intended was intended to keep those "birds" relevant to 2025. From the data I can get I believe the USA has about 30 to maybe 40 of the OH-58F models before all funding was cut out in the FY 2015 (Oct. 2014 - Sep. 2015) Budget. Full rate production and conversion has been canceled beyond the above craft for the OH-58F.
http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/Defense/OH...a-Warrior.html
https://www.army.mil/article/102288/...rcraft_profile
http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/oh58f.htm
http://helihub.com/tag/oh-58f/


And note this is not the AVX proposed upgrade program which is totally a separate issue from the OH-58F upgrade.

More on the OH-58D...
https://thetacticalhermit.com/2016/0...opter-by-2017/
http://abc11.com/news/armys-kiowa-wa...ation/1293251/
http://www.janes.com/article/59599/u...raining-flight
http://www.militarytimes.com/picture...tion/83186360/
http://www.usar.army.mil/News/Displa...one-last-time/


And finally the UH-72A...
I'm going to keep this simple it's a game "non-starter", why? Well the last I checked we don't use helicopter ambulances in the game ICO the USA. Second the somewhat "militarized" model is used by the National Guard (NG) for Homeland Security Missions which is clearly spelled out by the manufacturers ref. below and the rest. Of the 385 "birds" allocated for already over 200 are destined for the NG. The USA is seeking to increase the final number to 415 which, I believe has been approved.
http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/prod...2a-product.asp
http://uh-72a.com/about/milestones.asp
http://www.military-today.com/helico...72a_lakota.htm
http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/Defense/UH-72-Lakota-LUH.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/uh-72a-lakota/
http://www.military.com/equipment/uh-72a-lakota
https://www.army.mil/article/137585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AT9Dy3ToAw


Lastly and sadly we recently lost a fine officer that some refer to as "The Father of Air Assault"...
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/reti...at-94-1.453672

To summarize... I haven't checked but, it should be obvious if the UH-72A LAKOTA is in the game then we can celebrate by having more slots available! Always a good thing. The OH-58D I still feel JUN 2016 is a very viable retirement date based on the above. And I suspect the OH-58F will end up being an add from around JAN 2014 - DEC 2025. I'm "splitting" the difference here on the start date, due to the dates I'm seeing on the web as noted by a couple of the refs. above as well. She'll see far w/TI/GSR 60.

Pictures...
Attachment 14608 Attachment 14609

Attachment 14610 Attachment 14611

Well it's "hump day" so I'm off to bed so, a good night or morning to ya!!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG February 16th, 2017 07:26 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Yes BUT Pat the USA OOB INCLUDES a large number of National Guard units and formations so why would I remove something still used by them to open up slots I don't need ATM ?

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 16th, 2017 12:20 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
If we're talking about the OH-58D, just had it in my head that all NG units were separated/or designated from regular USA units in the OOB. What can I say but it's been a longtime since I've "been in the game" and you know what I mean. But if you think that's good wait until my next post!?! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Suhiir February 16th, 2017 10:07 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Might try my little "trick" of using an "*" in the name of NG only units the way I do USN ones in the USMC OOB.

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 6th, 2017 02:11 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Well I've watching this one for years now just to see it get to this point but, as JANE's is reporting CH-53K will reach Initial Operating Capability or IOC in 2019 but as I pointed out with the F-35B this really means nothing. The important factor is in achieving Full Operating Capability or FOC and that unfortunately won't be until 2029. The CH-53K has paralleled the F-35 program in many ways with technological, material, testing etc. delays and another factor is related. Simply they're the design is from the ground up and these example completely new airframes. And allowing for inflation, actually costs more then the F-35A.
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...f-ch-53k-costs

Oh I hear you, well what about the AH-1Z VIPER or the UH-1Y VENOM how did they reach FOC so fast? The answer is one of the easiest response to any question I've faced out here, simply speaking, architecturally the airframes were already available just somewhat modified for both. Very few as compared the total number to be manufactured were brand new airframes but mostly modified existing ones. It does both save time and money by using a known operational and battle tested airframe.

We've already had to push FOC back a couple of times for the F-35 and I suspect it'll have to be done at least once more by a year or two. That being said, it'll still get in the game by 2020. But for this helicopter it just doesn't bode well when that date is four years past game end time. And very rarely do these issues go backwards in time, though 2029 would be a conservative guess by and let's not fool ourselves in thinking it comes from anywhere other then NAVAIR.

I've invested a fair amount of time with this project and will continue to watch it but, I can't say it looks good for the CH-53K right at this time. And most know there's no bigger "vocal" advocate for these in the game or in their play-ability within it. That hasn't changed.

Here's the ref./the next is also a "fresh" story on the F-35 they hit a "milestone" and wait to you see what it was you might just go...huh!?!
http://www.janes.com/article/69314/c...yment-decision
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...n-seat-435792/


FOC is in no way any different in meaning than Fielded/or Fielding is to land equipment either in this game or the real world.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Suhiir April 6th, 2017 05:16 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
My real question is ... what do they plan to do with the CH-53K?

In the Navy/USMC the CH-53 is almost always used as a heavy cargo and mass troop transport not a "combat assault" one ... that's what the MV-22 is for. It rarely sees the front lines, too few of them, too valuable as a cargo lifter.

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 6th, 2017 12:08 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
It sounds like from NAVAIR it's designed also for direct assault operations as well of troops and equipment. From NAVAIR...
"Mission
The CH-53K will transport Marines, heavy equipment and supplies during ship-to-shore movement in support of amphibious assault and subsequent operations ashore."

Not surprising this helo will/does carry an advanced EW system, ground avoidance radar and should game wise, probably have at least a TI/GSR 50. This does also have obvious Special Ops applications as it'll be easily able to carry a couple of their special purpose vehicles and teams with no problems for deep penetration ops.
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm...1-3DD82B1DDB0F

We're not going to use something because of it's cost, we're not going to see the F-35 just sit on an airfield or carrier. What would be the point of having them then? No piece of modern equipment is "cheap" any longer when a tank can easily run over 10 million dollars a copy for some.

It's the era we live in and for better or worse the one we play in here. I would hope we NEVER exclude a piece of equipment for cost reasons (And I know we won't.) that's for the player to decide on what and how to use their resources. We just make it available and design it to the best of our abilities to make as realistic as the "real world" counter part.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Suhiir April 6th, 2017 02:00 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
It's not a matter of cost but of numbers available.

Maybe (probably) perspectives have changed.

FASTBOAT TOUGH April 7th, 2017 03:03 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
This will be my last on the CH-53K for awhile but, I wanted to leave you with what's probably the most detailed/updated resource on the topic at hand. It's the first one I used a very long time ago and you'll understand why when you look at it. Simply though, they stay with the topic and keep updating as needed.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...updated-01724/

I need to hit the rack-take care!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH August 14th, 2017 03:50 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
5 Attachment(s)
From WillianB's thread "Israeli AH-64's with Spike" further info provided about Columbia's AH-60L IV. This is a very advanced AH with all the "bells and whistles" it is a very capable helo and it goes beyond the "stat" sheet I present below. The first ref. will show what we might've missed for this OOB for this helo and possibly previous marks.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...e-money-03392/
http://defence-blog.com/news/the-col...-arpia-iv.html
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...usiness-office


Attachment 14860 Attachment 14861

Attachment 14862 Attachment 14863

Attachment 14864

Thanks "WB", I would've missed this if it wasn't for your Thread.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

DRG August 14th, 2017 07:19 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 839410)
From WillianB's thread "Israeli AH-64's with Spike" further info provided about Columbia's AH-60L IV. This is a very advanced AH with all the "bells and whistles" it is a very capable helo and it goes beyond the "stat" sheet I present below. The first ref. will show what we might've missed for this OOB for this helo
Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Pat.....the reason we " missed " this is because we do not have Columbia as a nation in the game.....

FASTBOAT TOUGH August 14th, 2017 09:47 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
All I can say is "Well, well"...huh crap! New Zealand all over again!?! That time it was when I submitted the NH-90 for them in a Patch Post a few years back. :o :doh:

Well two for two, non exist OOB's and both helos, at least I'm consistent!?! :D

Sorry Don and everyone but at least there were pictures!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 15th, 2017 02:10 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
From my files concerning the Pakistani AH-1Z. Before I post the refs I have I would kindly ask everyone's indulgence in...

1) The AH-64E to export countries will be no different than tit is for AH-1Z or ABRAMS or any other advanced U.S. piece of equipment.

2) From last Sep., please review Posts 63 & 64 of this thread. Those JANE's refs. are likely "dead" now but, as posted many times before, JANE's refs are "perishable" and you either act on them in a timely fashion or as I've been doing, build credible refs around them while active.

A) Also with ref. below note the delivery from Russian of the Mi-35M which is the most advanced version of the Mi-24 HIND. The Mi-35M is in the game with Brazil and I believe I also submitted it for Russia as well since they got them around 3yrs. ago. Also addresses various equipment and weapons to be sold to them as well. The TI/GSR levels addressed per Posts 63 & 64 with a minor - in EW as well as seen fit. FOC I would think around APR or JUN 2018. Though I have not checked, I believe the Pakistanis already fly the Mi-24 so assuming they get their Mi-35M helos by JAN 2018, I believe FOC should occur around APR/MAY 2018. The more advanced systems and weapons being the delaying factor here.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1250108
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...nships-423882/
http://www.heliweb.com/lockheed-pakistan-ah-1z/
http://thediplomat.com/2017/02/pakis...pters-in-2017/
http://quwa.org/2017/02/20/idex-2017...z-vipers-2017/
http://quwa.org/2017/06/19/pakistans...2017-delivery/


I have a couple more if needed. Thanks for the diversion!

We have had the pleasure of Irma's company here in what I believe was the hardest hit county in Ga. We feel so privileged. :rolleyes: At least we still have our house. Hope all affected in this forum and there are quite a few of you, made it through safely.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

redcoat2 September 20th, 2017 07:25 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The first four UH-60 Black Hawks for the Afghan Air Force (AAF) were delivered to Kandahar airport on Monday.

http://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/...e-kandahar-aaf

The Afghan OOB (orbat26) has the S70 Blackhawk (unit 123) in it. Is there any evidence that they are present?

DRG September 20th, 2017 09:07 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
I believe ( it's been a long time....) those were added as available to the Afghans for missions but actually US equipment

NOTE
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...113759934.html

The Afghan air force has received its first Blackhawk helicopters from the US, in the latest step towards modernising its fleet.

Afghanistan still relies heavily on US airpower, but Afghans are beginning to carry out some operations themselves.

The new hardware arrives today, but it will take months before the aircraft can be used, and years before the air force can operate entirely on its own.

redcoat2 September 21st, 2017 06:50 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
The U.S. Army has retired the OH-58D 'Kiowa Warrior' with the last serviceable aircraft making its final flight at Joint Base Langley-Eustis on Sept. 19.

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/248945...-final-flight#

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 22nd, 2017 03:44 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Also see Posts #69 - #71/Pgs. 7/8. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

WilliamB September 27th, 2017 10:00 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
I found a few things in the October issue of Air Forces magazine that may be of value.

Egypt received 3 Ka-52s in July and 3 more in August. 9 more are to be delivered by the end of the year with a total of 46 to be received over the next two years.

Slovakia took delivery of 2 UH-60M Blackhawks in August and has 7 more on order.

Pakistan received 4 Mi-35Ms in July.

Afghanistan is to begin receiving UH-60A+ Blackhawks in early October to replace their Mi-17s. 53 are on order so far to be delivered over the next 18 months with a total requirement for 159.

DRG September 30th, 2017 08:20 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
I appreciate info on actual deliveries over theoretical maybe, maybe not a few years down the road deliveries

redcoat2 October 20th, 2017 03:50 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
The Argentine Ministry of Defence has accepted 20 Augusta-Westland AB 206 military helicopters that will be assigned to the Army Aviation Directorate. The handover ceremony took place in Italy. Some of the helos will be fitted with GAU-17 miniguns and 70mm rockets once they arrive in Argentina.

http://www.eital.mrecic.gov.ar/es/en...cito-argentino

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/210...rs_from_Italy#

Pibwl October 26th, 2017 02:45 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
It's a detail, but helo weapon Russian #173 4x57mm S-5K has HE pen=0, while #154 2x57mm S-5K has 1 (correct, I think).

Same for Polish weapon #188 4x57mm S-5K, and possibly others using helo version of 4x57mm.

DRG October 26th, 2017 03:38 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
It's used by three nations only those two are 0. 1 would be correct. Now corrected

Pibwl October 26th, 2017 05:30 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
By the way: sorry to pester you, but I've got doubts, if a difference between 2x57mm (HE kill 8) and 4x57mm (HE kill 10 - only 25% better) isn't too tiny, for twice as much rockets... On the other hand, 8x57mm has kill 15.

As for now, two shots of 2x57mm are much deadlier, than a single shot of 4x57mm - and some units had a plethora of 2x57mm (like Russian #965 Mi-8TB with 96 shots - 192 rockets), what gives them some sort of advantage.

I suggest to give:
2x57mm HE kill 6 (or 8),
4x57mm HE kill 12,
8x57mm - some 18 (or more), considering a big number of rockets in a salvo.

Two rockets would be pretty lousy choice then, but 57mm S-5 weren't regarded as highly precise and efficient weapon anyway (and there would be still a worse weapon: French 2x37mm SNEB with kill 5). 4x57mm could be considered a primary way of using these rockets then.

BTW: 2x57mm rockets are used eg. by Soviet #364 Mi-24A, which has 64 rockets as for now, while it carried a standard Mi-24-family load of 128 rockets (4x32, photo http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/...5680.jpg?v=v40 )

For comparison:
2x RP-2 Rocket has kill 8, 4x RP-2 Rocket has kill 12 (50% better)
2x 68mm SNEB has kill 11, 4x 68mm SNEB has kill 14 (27% better - still not much)
2x 2.75in FFAR has kill 15, 4x 2.75in FFAR has kill 20 (33% better)
2x 70mm Hydra has kill 15, 4x 70mm Hydra has kill 20 (33% better)

With HE kill 12, 4x57mm would be similar to 4x RP-2 (2in), only marginally better than 2x68mm SNEB and worse, than 2x70mm, what might be close to reality.

Imp October 26th, 2017 08:15 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Ungided rockets HE kill would be fine as it stands or closer than your suggestion.
Firing 4 vs 2 in a salvo just increases the chance you do damage or to catch something in the blast.
Not going to work out the probability but they are not accurate, say 12% more chance per rocket of actually hitting the target.

Pibwl October 27th, 2017 11:38 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
I know, but a difference between 2 and 4 rockets in case of 57mm is much smaller, than in others... And if we fire 4 rockets there is bigger chance, that two will hit.

Pibwl October 30th, 2017 07:16 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamB (Post 839687)
Slovakia took delivery of 2 UH-60M Blackhawks in August and has 7 more on order.

I wanted to report this as well after reading a Polish article on Slovak helicopters :)
As for now, UH-60 are not armed, and there are no precise plans to arm them.

Anyway, other Slovak (OOB51) helo news and corrections, basing upon this article and https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vzdu%C...skej_republiky

190 Mil Mi-8 - precisely Mi-8T. Standard Mi-8 weren't armed with guns at all (photo without MG: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...Air_Forces.JPG)

195 Mil Mi-17H - scheduled to be withdrawn by 2020.
Non-Soviet Mi-17 rarely were armed with guns, and Slovak ones weren't, as photos confirm.

They could carry as a standard 6 x 32 S-5 rockets (192 in total), now 64.
Photos showing six hardpoints:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...354108134).jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ovak_Mi_17.jpg
https://www.aktuality.sk/fotogaleria...m-jastrabom/4/


200 Mil Mi-24V - all Mi-24 were withdrawn by the end of 9/2011 https://www.webnoviny.sk/vrtulniky-m...armade-koncia/ and https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vzdu%C...skej_republiky. Currently Slovakia has no attack helicopters

Mi-24 carry typically 4 x 32 S-5 rockets (128 in total), now 64.

Slovak Mi-24 were camouflaged in several different patterns, so better icon seems 3494 (original pattern), for all terrains.

205 Mil Mi-24P - Slovakia had no Mi-24P, but 8 Mi-24D instead, withdrawn in 2011. Could be copied Czech unit 124.

290 WSK Mi-2 withdrawn by 2013 https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vzdu%C...skej_republiky Better icon is camouflaged 931. After its withdrawal, Slovakia has no light helicopters.

295 Mi-34 - there's no trace they were ever used.

910 Mi-35M - there's no info it was used - the only versions mentioned are 24D and V. Anyway, they surely weren't received in 1993. Photos at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...vakian_service doesn't show 23mm-gun-armed variants.

911 Mil Mi-24 - should be renamed Mi-24V (9M114 missiles), withdrawn in 2011. Better icon is 3494 (BTW, current icon is Mi-24D).

I'm attaching several photos, in case anybody finds them useful.

Pibwl October 31st, 2017 01:13 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl (Post 840104)

200 Mil Mi-24V - all Mi-24 were withdrawn by the end of 9/2011 https://www.webnoviny.sk/vrtulniky-m...armade-koncia/ and https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vzdu%C...skej_republiky. Currently Slovakia has no attack helicopters

...unless we'll copy a Mi-17 with 192 57mm rockets to this class to fill a gap. There is also possible configuration with two 23mm GSh-23 guns (weapon 180) and four UB-32 launchers (128 57mm rockets) (I've seen such photo of Polish Mi-17).

redcoat2 November 2nd, 2017 07:32 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Maybe something for obat61.

The Nigerian Air Force (NAF) has inducted the first of two new Bell 412 helos seized by customs in November 2016 and handed over to the NAF in January.

http://www.tv360nigeria.com/nigerian...ew-helicopter/

There is a Bell 412 in obat61 already (unit 135). It was available 1/83 to 12/94.

redcoat2 November 3rd, 2017 09:52 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
Kenya (obat69) has also acquired some Bell helicopters this year. The final two of eight Bell Huey II helicopters were delivered to the Kenyan Air Force in July. The first six were handed over in December 2016.

http://defence-blog.com/news/kenya-r...-from-usa.html

https://ke.usembassy.gov/kdfs-capaci...i-helicopters/

http://www.janes.com/article/72465/f...vered-to-kenya

redcoat2 November 26th, 2017 12:44 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
The first six Afghan UH-60 pilots have graduated.

http://www.afcent.af.mil/Units/438th...lots-graduate/

redcoat2 December 18th, 2017 11:12 AM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
The first AH-64E Apache Guardian attack helicopter for Indonesia has arrived from the United States. Indonesia requested eight Apache Guardians under the U.S. Foreign Military Sales program in September 2012, along with associated equipment and spares that included the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radar and 140 Lockheed Martin AGM-114R3 anti-tank missiles.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017...rives-from-us/

https://lancercell.com/2017/12/18/ti...donesia-photo/

DRG December 18th, 2017 12:40 PM

Re: Helo News game related.
 
now entered


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